2015 UK Politics Megathread

[Steamtopia]

On a.. brighter note, the Tories are apparently interested in hosting the 2022 World Cup.

Which we can't afford.

Maybe they'll privatise it.

[Arkolon]

Just tax the fucking rich and get it over with.

Unlike my party, I'd like to see the 50p rate back. Also, we need serious work on international corporate taxation. If we could scrap tax avoidance, we might not even have to raise taxes ever again.

Abolishing nondom is probably a smart move, too. Tories ought take note from that, at least.

[Steamtopia]

Unlike my party, I'd like to see the 50p rate back. Also, we need serious work on international corporate taxation. If we could scrap tax avoidance, we might not even have to raise taxes ever again.

Abolishing nondom is probably a smart move, too. Tories ought take note from that, at least.

It's a start, aye. Also I'm not entirely opposed to a "mansion" tax. I hate taxation, but if we're going to aim for a surplus, at least tax the people who can afford to survive after the tax.

[Eastfield Lodge]

On a.. brighter note, the Tories are apparently interested in hosting the 2022 World Cup.

Which we can't afford.

I don't know, we've already seem to have a lot of the infrastructure in place (from the Olympic football tournaments), so we won't need much investment on that front.

I didn't even know the UK even spent that much on defence.

We spend £38bn a year on defence.

See edit.

[Steamtopia]

Which we can't afford.

I don't know, we've already seem to have a lot of the infrastructure in place (from the Olympic football tournaments), so we won't need much investment on that front.

We spend £38bn a year on defence.

See edit.

No no no. They're cutting £12bn from the welfare budget alone.

[Steamtopia]

I have the confidence that the cuts made are cutting down on middlemen

Why?

[Eastfield Lodge]

I don't know, we've already seem to have a lot of the infrastructure in place (from the Olympic football tournaments), so we won't need much investment on that front.See edit.

No no no. They're cutting £12bn from the welfare budget alone.

Oh.
So, how much are/were they planning to cut over the next five years?

[Steamtopia]

No no no. They're cutting £12bn from the welfare budget alone.

Oh.
So, how much are/were they planning to cut over the next five years?

They haven't really clarified.

[Arkolon]

I have the confidence that the cuts made are cutting down on middlemen

Why?

Because that would make the most sense, and it would be where most potential cuts could in fact be found. I'm also pretty sure, despite how likely it is to be Conservative rhetoric, that that is what came from their own mouths. I also don't convolute the intentions and actions of politicians to fit and further my own political ideals: I don't seriously believe even this Tory government would carve integral components from healthcare, education, welfare, or the like simply out of deliberate hatred of the poor.

[Steamtopia]

Why?

Because that would make the most sense, and it would be where most potential cuts could in fact be found. I'm also pretty sure, despite how likely it is to be Conservative rhetoric, that that is what came from their own mouths. I also don't convolute the intentions and actions of politicians to fit and further my own political ideals: I don't seriously believe even this Tory government would carve integral components from healthcare, education, welfare, or the like simply out of deliberate hatred of the poor.

I don't think the Tories are evil. I just think they're incompetent and misguided. I'd believe they're cutting essential services because they think the deficit is a much bigger threat.

[Atlanticatia]

Just tax the fucking rich and get it over with.

The top 1% in Britain holds 12.5% of the income and contributes 27.5% of income tax revenue. This isn't a question of low progressivity in the tax base, and you'd have to be crazy to think this government was elected because it wanted to increase taxes at all. I have the confidence that the cuts made are cutting down on middlemen in order to save time, costs, and resources, and possibly even create more jobs that are more valuable-- see those ~10,000 middleman NHS jobs cut and replaced with ~7,000 more doctors (numbers are a admittedly a little fuzzy here). I haven't formed an opinion on the final RM privatisation, but when it comes to the other costs I doubt it's for the absolute worst.

And they can't pay more because...?

And the cuts announced are just the tip of the ice berg. There are tens of billions of more in austerity measures on the way. I think that a 50p tax rate on income above £150,000 (or 60p) would be a much fairer way to reduce the deficit to a more sustainable position, without having to cut as much. £12bn is going to be cut from the welfare budget - money that goes to the poorest people, and especially children. It'd be much fairer to at least spare the most vulnerable from more cuts, paid for by increasing taxes on the rich by £12bn, and possibly cancelling reductions in the inheritance tax and changes to the 40p tax band. Helping the middle or upper-middle classes, and not taking anything away from the top 1%, is too much of a luxury that can't be afforded, when the poor are facing £12bn in welfare cuts.

All I'm saying is how I can not seriously see how someone can think cutting £12bn from the welfare budget while not increasing taxes on higher-income earners and wealthy people is fair at all. Those with the broadest shoulders should bear the largest burden.

[Souseiseki]

Just tax the fucking rich and get it over with.

The top 1% in Britain holds 12.5% of the income and contributes 27.5% of income tax revenue. This isn't a question of low progressivity in the tax base, and you'd have to be crazy to think this government was elected because it wanted to increase taxes at all. I have the confidence that the cuts made are cutting down on middlemen in order to save time, costs, and resources, and possibly even create more jobs that are more valuable-- see those ~10,000 middleman NHS jobs cut and replaced with ~7,000 more doctors (numbers are a admittedly a little fuzzy here). I haven't formed an opinion on the final RM privatisation, but when it comes to the other costs I doubt it's for the absolute worst.

did you forget that the current welfare cuts were never supposed to happen? that they deliberately highballed it so they could concede it in negotiations then got stuck with it and are now trying to get them out of the way as fast as possible so they don't affect the next election? because i didn't. do you think they'll just somehow find several billion more middlemen and blah blah or do you at least realize you can't just cut forever?

[Vassenor]

It's not about threats. Cutting the deficit is a vote-winner because it makes them look like they're doing something.

[Souseiseki]

Because that would make the most sense, and it would be where most potential cuts could in fact be found. I'm also pretty sure, despite how likely it is to be Conservative rhetoric, that that is what came from their own mouths. I also don't convolute the intentions and actions of politicians to fit and further my own political ideals: I don't seriously believe even this Tory government would carve integral components from healthcare, education, welfare, or the like simply out of deliberate hatred of the poor.

I don't think the Tories are evil. I just think they're incompetent and misguided. I'd believe they're cutting essential services because they think the deficit is a much bigger threat.

reminder that the first non-lawyer in 440 years to get a chance at running the courts said it was good he wasn't a lawyer/had no experience with the courts because it meant he had no attachment as pretty much immediately fucked things up by cutting essential services because he had no idea what he was fucking doing

this is the level of competence we are dealing with

[Arkolon]

Because that would make the most sense, and it would be where most potential cuts could in fact be found. I'm also pretty sure, despite how likely it is to be Conservative rhetoric, that that is what came from their own mouths. I also don't convolute the intentions and actions of politicians to fit and further my own political ideals: I don't seriously believe even this Tory government would carve integral components from healthcare, education, welfare, or the like simply out of deliberate hatred of the poor.

I don't think the Tories are evil. I just think they're incompetent and misguided. I'd believe they're cutting essential services because they think the deficit is a much bigger threat.

According to international credit rating agencies, UK is approaching the danger zone in terms of public debt. I am very willing to admit that debt is not a problem for America, but it is impossible to deny that the balance of payments and international credit ratings are of huge importance to basically every other sovereign nation. Does the UK have a debt problem? Yes, I reckon it does: Moody's rates the UK as in the 'caution' zone for debt. Does the UK have the financial assurance that the US has because it is has international superpower status and the economic prowess of the US? No, and that means that low debt and maintaining a stable and sustainable economy and growth plan are crucial to the economic development of the UK. Does the UK therefore need to try to make cuts? Yes, as long as the end result is deficit and debt reduction.

Are we also 100% sure that all £12bn in welfare cuts will come out of the benefits budget? That is to say, are benefits being deliberately reduced to fund the cuts?

[Steamtopia]

I don't think the Tories are evil. I just think they're incompetent and misguided. I'd believe they're cutting essential services because they think the deficit is a much bigger threat.

According to international credit rating agencies, UK is approaching the danger zone in terms of public debt. I am very willing to admit that debt is not a problem for America, but it is impossible to deny that the balance of payments and international credit ratings are of huge importance to basically every other sovereign nation. Does the UK have a debt problem? Yes, I reckon it does: Moody's rates the UK as in the 'caution' zone for debt. Does the UK have the financial assurance that the US has because it is has international superpower status and the economic prowess of the US? No, and that means that low debt and maintaining a stable and sustainable economy and growth plan are crucial to the economic development of the UK. Does the UK therefore need to try to make cuts? Yes, as long as the end result is deficit and debt reduction.

Are we also 100% sure that all £12bn in welfare cuts will come out of the benefits budget? That is to say, are benefits being deliberately reduced to fund the cuts?

You trust international credit rating agencies after 2008?

[Arkolon]

According to international credit rating agencies, UK is approaching the danger zone in terms of public debt. I am very willing to admit that debt is not a problem for America, but it is impossible to deny that the balance of payments and international credit ratings are of huge importance to basically every other sovereign nation. Does the UK have a debt problem? Yes, I reckon it does: Moody's rates the UK as in the 'caution' zone for debt. Does the UK have the financial assurance that the US has because it is has international superpower status and the economic prowess of the US? No, and that means that low debt and maintaining a stable and sustainable economy and growth plan are crucial to the economic development of the UK. Does the UK therefore need to try to make cuts? Yes, as long as the end result is deficit and debt reduction.

Are we also 100% sure that all £12bn in welfare cuts will come out of the benefits budget? That is to say, are benefits being deliberately reduced to fund the cuts?

You trust international credit rating agencies after 2008?

The methods they use to calculate ratings are publicly available and I can use other statistics, independent from any particular rating agency in and of itself, to arrive to the same conclusion as the rating agencies do. But I nevertheless do trust international financial agencies about sovereign debt and potential economic ripple effects more so than I trust the personal verdict of some late-teens poster on an obscure Internet forum, yes.

[Souseiseki]

You trust international credit rating agencies after 2008?

The methods they use to calculate ratings are publicly available and I can use other statistics, independent from any particular rating agency in and of itself, to arrive to the same conclusion as the rating agencies do. But I nevertheless do trust international financial agencies about sovereign debt and potential economic ripple effects more so than I trust the personal verdict of some late-teens poster on an obscure Internet forum, yes.

oh shit someone call the burn ward

e: not sure if just ignored or blocked so someone please laugh over how the tories are ripping into each other because of how hilariously they fucked up their "wait we actually go a majority oh shit" pledge to cut £12bn from welfare and at anyone that seriously thinks they're somehow just going to pull another several billion worth of middlemen from the infinite middleman closet (yes of course welfare cuts are coming from benefits) on my behalf just in case thank you

[Souseiseki]

>everyone is for some reason really really evasive as to how the hell they're going to find £12bn
>there's nothing else left to cut
>they go after child benefit
>middle-income families get hit

is your body ready?

[Mollary]

I don't think the Tories are evil. I just think they're incompetent and misguided. I'd believe they're cutting essential services because they think the deficit is a much bigger threat.

According to international credit rating agencies, UK is approaching the danger zone in terms of public debt. I am very willing to admit that debt is not a problem for America, but it is impossible to deny that the balance of payments and international credit ratings are of huge importance to basically every other sovereign nation. Does the UK have a debt problem? Yes, I reckon it does: Moody's rates the UK as in the 'caution' zone for debt. Does the UK have the financial assurance that the US has because it is has international superpower status and the economic prowess of the US? No, and that means that low debt and maintaining a stable and sustainable economy and growth plan are crucial to the economic development of the UK. Does the UK therefore need to try to make cuts? Yes, as long as the end result is deficit and debt reduction.

Are we also 100% sure that all £12bn in welfare cuts will come out of the benefits budget? That is to say, are benefits being deliberately reduced to fund the cuts?

UK debt is hardly astronomical at the minute, I think it is still below 80%, which is still 10% below the controversial, and not entirely plausible, ceiling of 90% which I believe was set out as the danger zone. Moreover, as a country still not operating at full employment, surely it wouldn't be entirely responsible to cut into government spending hard, especially government spending targeted at people with a low marginal propensity to save.

[Atlanticatia]

"The thinktank also pointed out the difficulties facing Osborne if he is to achieve the planned £12bn savings from the welfare bill over the next two years, only 10% of which has so far been detailed.

Cameron’s pre-election promise to protect child benefit, which he has reiterated after last month’s general election, implies deeper cuts to other key benefits, Emmerson said.

Citing some examples of the options remaining to the chancellor, once pensions and child benefit are protected, the IFS deputy director said it was hard to identify simple, uncontroversial cuts. Reducing the child element of working tax credits would net the Treasury £5bn in savings, for example – but it could plunge an extra 300,000 children into poverty. Taxing disability benefits would save £1.5bn, but would be hugely controversial with charities and campaigners."


and this: http://www.24dash.com/news/central_gove ... e-cuts-IFS

[Souseiseki]

Tony Blair is to be become the chairman of an organisation that combats anti-Semitism and racism in Europe.

The former UK prime minister will join the European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation, which has campaigned for tougher laws on extremism.

Mr Blair is standing down this month as the Middle East envoy representing the US, Russia, the UN and the EU.

He will not be paid in his new role, but his faith foundation will reportedly receive an annual donation.

The ECTR describes itself as an "opinion-making and advisory body".

It has called on European countries to bring in legislation creating clearer definitions of racism and anti-Semitism, boost educational programmes and make Holocaust denial a criminal offence. The organisation also wants governments to provide security at synagogues and Jewish schools.

the days of middle east peace envoy tone are over

[Imperializt Russia]

On a.. brighter note, the Tories are apparently interested in hosting the 2022 World Cup.

Which we can't afford.

Wasn't half the point behind our original 2022 bid "well we already have a load of stadia and facilities b/c Olympiad"?

It's not about threats. Cutting the deficit is a vote-winner because it makes them look like they're doing something.

Because no-one knows what the deficit is.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Which we can't afford.

Wasn't half the point behind our original 2022 bid "well we already have a load of stadia and facilities b/c Olympiad"?

We bid for 2018.

[Apollinis]

The problem with the idea that the Tories' current round of cuts is mainly targeted at "middlemen" (which even people like James Lansdale on BBC News aren't claiming to be the case at this point; on the News at Ten tonight, he explicitly stated that we're past efficiency savings now and are in to bona fide cuts to the welfare that people actually receive) is that it implies one or more of the following:
a) the person making that argument hasn't been paying attention for the last 5 years or so.
b) the person making that argument sincerely believes that there's some vast, nigh-on endless morass of middlemen that can be cut without consequences to actual departmental functions.
c) the last government was so utterly fucking incompetent that they didn't have made every conceivable efficiency saving that they could in the five years that they had to do so, knowing that efficiency savings are far easier to implement and justify than cuts to things departments actually do.

Funnily enough, none of those things reflect well on either the person making the "middleman" argument or the government.

On a separate note, what I really, genuinely hate about this government is that they seem like they're gunning for the absolute worst of the selfish and ignorant "fuck you, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" attitude that sometimes characterises American right-wing libertarianism, while also steadfastly ignoring the other key part of right-wing libertarianism, namely that the government shouldn't be authoritarian and shouldn't interfere in its citizens' personal lives. It's a genuinely abhorrent vision of society and the government's role in it.