2015 UK Politics Megathread

[Vassenor]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/28/labour-did-too-little-to-safeguard-civil-liberties-says-yvette-cooper

Cooper says New Labour did too little to safeguard civil liberties.

Labour leadership contender Yvette Cooper has issued a mea culpa over the last Labour government’s attitude towards civil liberties, saying it did not do enough to keep the state’s surveillance powers in check. In the latest sign of candidates trying to draw a line under the past, the shadow home secretary criticised the governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown for being “too reluctant to introduce checks and balances as strong as new terrorism powers”.

Wow. If only she actually meant it:

Almost always voted for a stricter asylum system
Consistently voted for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Almost always voted for introducing ID cards
Consistently voted against the introduction of elected Police and Crime Commissioners
Generally voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10131/ ... votes#home

So politicians aren't allowed to go "I did some stuff in my past career that I'm not proud of and I want to fix" without everyone screaming "OMG YOU HYPOCRITE!"?

[Olivaero]

Cooper leads among ex-Labour voters in a focus group in a marginal seat. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34087829

I think Cooper is both principled and pragmatic. And electable.

You realize literally the entirety of New Labour that is, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (sorta anyway), Alistair Campbell, Peter Mandelson, any other influential labour politician you can think of from the last 15 years has spent some time telling every labour member that corbyn is unelectable (the only exception I can think of Is good old John Prescott). So we get it you don't think the left wing will ever win an election again you think it's impossible we simply either disagree or at this point do not care.

[Parti Ouvrier]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/28/labour-did-too-little-to-safeguard-civil-liberties-says-yvette-cooper

Cooper says New Labour did too little to safeguard civil liberties.

Labour leadership contender Yvette Cooper has issued a mea culpa over the last Labour government’s attitude towards civil liberties, saying it did not do enough to keep the state’s surveillance powers in check. In the latest sign of candidates trying to draw a line under the past, the shadow home secretary criticised the governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown for being “too reluctant to introduce checks and balances as strong as new terrorism powers”.

Coming from one of the people who demanded checks on voters * (hashtag Labourpurge), I'll take that with a large pinch of salt. If the control freak can advocate disenfranchising trade union Labour supporters, what will she be like as PM? Anyway, I'm surprised she didn't wasn't tempted to become shadow chancellor, afterall, there hasn't been a female chancellor in Britain.

* http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ter-checks

[Parti Ouvrier]

Cooper leads among ex-Labour voters in a focus group in a marginal seat. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34087829

I think Cooper is both opportunist principled and pragmatic. And unelectable.

And fixed.

[Chartist Socialist Republics]

Wow. If only she actually meant it:

Almost always voted for a stricter asylum system
Consistently voted for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Almost always voted for introducing ID cards
Consistently voted against the introduction of elected Police and Crime Commissioners
Generally voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10131/ ... votes#home

So politicians aren't allowed to go "I did some stuff in my past career that I'm not proud of and I want to fix" without everyone screaming "OMG YOU HYPOCRITE!"?

It's utterly disingenuous to issue a statement blaming the Blair and Brown governments for an erosion of civil liberties as if she was a part of an opposition faction that opposed it whilst labour were in government.

[Olivaero]

So politicians aren't allowed to go "I did some stuff in my past career that I'm not proud of and I want to fix" without everyone screaming "OMG YOU HYPOCRITE!"?

It's utterly disingenuous to issue a statement blaming the Blair and Brown governments for an erosion of civil liberties as if she was a part of an opposition faction that opposed it whilst labour were in government.

I decided to have a quick peak at Corbyn's record on these matters and oh look

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north
Almost always voted against a stricter Asylum system
Generally voted against allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Generally voted against introducing ID cards
Almost always voted against requiring the mass retention of information about communications

well Quelle fucking suprise I wonder who the real civil liberties candidate is.

[CoraSpia]

So politicians aren't allowed to go "I did some stuff in my past career that I'm not proud of and I want to fix" without everyone screaming "OMG YOU HYPOCRITE!"?

It's utterly disingenuous to issue a statement blaming the Blair and Brown governments for an erosion of civil liberties as if she was a part of an opposition faction that opposed it whilst labour were in government.

If she apologised for doing it herself, she might have more credibility.

[Parti Ouvrier]

It's utterly disingenuous to issue a statement blaming the Blair and Brown governments for an erosion of civil liberties as if she was a part of an opposition faction that opposed it whilst labour were in government.

I decided to have a quick peak at Corbyn's record on these matters and oh look

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north
Almost always voted against a stricter Asylum system
Generally voted against allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Generally voted against introducing ID cards
Almost always voted against requiring the mass retention of information about communications

well Quelle fucking suprise I wonder who the real civil liberties candidate is.

Indeed.

Also, 'Kate Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall, said there was a danger that "some very unfair decisions are being taken that rule out decent Labour supporters from getting a vote. The party has reneged on natural justice with no appeals and we will pay the price when the election is over."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... yn-burnham

And from the guardian comments section:

RobbieP
'I found out today that I have been purged from the Labour party. Not sure why. Not a member of any other party. Only other organisation I am a member of is the UCU. I have been rather vocal in my support for Corbyn though.

I have previously voted for other parties and have been critical of New Labour. But surely these are the people Labour should want to win back?

This is a disgrace to democracy. Labour will have to strike both democratic and socialist from its name.'

Steve Jones:
'Purging and members being asked to confirm that they are [still] sympathetic to the aims and ideals of the Labour Party:
Stalinism meets McCarthyism.'

Tintenfische 21 Aug 2015 20:02
'My party is turning into a fucking shambles. It's becoming embarrassing that we can;t even organise a leadership election without things going to pot. I'll remain as I always have done a committed member but for fuck sake, we need to up our game sharpish.'

[Vassenor]

John Woodcock, the chairman of the Progress group and a supporter of Liz Kendall, has suggested there is a “highly organised” attempt to play up the idea that there has been a purge of voters on the left in order to pave the way for a purge of those on the right of the party if Corbyn wins.

So getting rid of the Red Tories would be bad?

[Olivaero]

I decided to have a quick peak at Corbyn's record on these matters and oh look

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north
Almost always voted against a stricter Asylum system
Generally voted against allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Generally voted against introducing ID cards
Almost always voted against requiring the mass retention of information about communications

well Quelle fucking suprise I wonder who the real civil liberties candidate is.

Indeed.

Also, 'Kate Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall, said there was a danger that "some very unfair decisions are being taken that rule out decent Labour supporters from getting a vote. The party has reneged on natural justice with no appeals and we will pay the price when the election is over."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... yn-burnham

And from the guardian comments section:

RobbieP
'I found out today that I have been purged from the Labour party. Not sure why. Not a member of any other party. Only other organisation I am a member of is the UCU. I have been rather vocal in my support for Corbyn though.

I have previously voted for other parties and have been critical of New Labour. But surely these are the people Labour should want to win back?

This is a disgrace to democracy. Labour will have to strike both democratic and socialist from its name.'

Steve Jones:
'Purging and members being asked to confirm that they are [still] sympathetic to the aims and ideals of the Labour Party:
Stalinism meets McCarthyism.'

We always knew they weren't going down easy the bastards. The left isn't dead in the UK but it is currently being chained up in Harriet Harmans basement.

[Parti Ouvrier]

John Woodcock, the chairman of the Progress group and a supporter of Liz Kendall, has suggested there is a “highly organised” attempt to play up the idea that there has been a purge of voters on the left in order to pave the way for a purge of those on the right of the party if Corbyn wins.

So getting rid of the Red Tories would be bad?

Besides which this damage control is too little too late. Nobody trusts the toxic Progress group. I still think Corbyn will win.

Also:

'John Tummon • 9 days ago
This is what I wrote by way of appeal:

Thank you
for notifying me of your decision to exclude my application to join the Labour
Party by invoking a section of the rules which you believe gives you complete
discretion on such matters without having to supply a reason.

I hereby submit the following appeal against your decision:

1 The basis for your exercise of unbridled discretion - Appendix 2.1.B.x of the
Labour Party’s rules - is contradicted by Appendix 2 of the same rule book, in that section xii of the ‘NEC procedural guidance on membership recruitment and retention’ states: “The reasons for the rejection of an application for membership by the General Secretary or the objection by the CLP to the application for membership must be sent to the individual applicant at the address given”.

You must therefore supply me with these reasons at the time of refusal but have not
done so. Your decision is therefore prima facie in breach of your constitution.

2 By way of explanation, all you offer me is a) "We have reason to believe that you do not support the aims and values of the Labour Party" and b) "you are a supporter of an organisation opposed to the Labour Party", but you fail to specify (i) which values you think I do not adhere to; (ii) which organisation you believe I support, or (iii) what aspects of this organisation constitute it as in opposition to the Labour Party.

3 The values of the Labour Party are set out in Clause IV:

Clause IV.1 states: ​

“The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us
the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many not the few”. ​I wholly support this.​

Clause IV 2.A specifies that “those undertakings essential to the common good” … should be … “either owned by the public or accountable to them”. I wholly support this.​

Clause IV 2.b states that “A JUST SOCIETY, which judges its strength by the condition of the weak as much as the strong, provides security against fear, and justice at work; which nurtures families, promotes equality of opportunity, and delivers people from the tyranny of poverty, prejudice and the abuse of power”. I wholly support this.​​

Clause IV 2.c states that Labour stands for “AN OPEN DEMOCRACY, in which government is held to account by the people, decisions are taken as far as practicable by the communities they affect and where fundamental human rights are guaranteed”. 2.d states that Labour stands for: “A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT, which we protect, enhance and hold
in trust for future generations”. I wholly support this.​​

​You are therefore wrong that ​I do not support the aims and values of the Labour Party.

4 I was not a member of any political party between 1982 and 2013 - a period of 31 years. In autumn 2013 I joined Left Unity and resigned from Left Unity in March 2015. I am
currently a supporter of the Republican Socialist Alliance, an organisation which exists to promote republicanism among the British Left. The RSA is not a membership organisation and does not ask for subscriptions. Nowhere in your rule book does it state that support for the monarchy is part of Labour's values; there have always been republicans in the Labour Party, so your argument that I support an organisation that is opposed to the Labour Party is
wrong.

Finally, I note that your decision was sent to me within a few hours of my online vote being submitted, which was for Jeremy Corbyn. I therefore ask for you to supply me with the
following within 14 days:

a The number of​ applications you have excluded between
the ballot opening and today, 20 August, and

b The number of applications you have excluded from
people who have already voted for the new Labour leader, between the
ballot opening and today, 20 August, and

c ​The number of​ applications you have excluded from
people who have voted for Jeremy Corbyn as leader between the ballot
opening and today, 20 August​.

​Yours sincerely

John Tummon​'

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... rship-vote
http://www.labourcounts.com/constitution.htm

And from Jason Cobb;
http://onionbagblog.com/2015/08/20/whyn ... bourparty/

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ip-contest
^I suspect this was a Tory trap to get the Labour party to over-react with a Labour purge, the control freaks/Progress sect/cult in the Labour party dutifully obliged.

[Shamhnan Insir]

-snippy-.

If he is elected I don't see the party staying together. And the fragments that remain will drift, some maybe to the Lib Dems and Greens, with the rest forming a farleft quasi-Labour party.

[Olivaero]

-snippy-.

If he is elected I don't see the party staying together. And the fragments that remain will drift, some maybe to the Lib Dems and Greens, with the rest forming a farleft quasi-Labour party.

Being part of the Labour party is basically all that's keeping some of the red tories in their seats so I don't really see them leaving.

[Parti Ouvrier]

-snippy-.

If he is elected I don't see the party staying together. And the fragments that remain will drift, some maybe to the Lib Dems and Greens, with the rest forming a farleft quasi-Labour party.

A Labour party Mark II has failed, it won't succeed anytime soon. However, there is justification in expelling the Progress cult, 'and delivers people from the tyranny of poverty, prejudice and the abuse of power.'

[Parti Ouvrier]

If he is elected I don't see the party staying together. And the fragments that remain will drift, some maybe to the Lib Dems and Greens, with the rest forming a farleft quasi-Labour party.

Being part of the Labour party is basically all that's keeping some of the red tories in their seats so I don't really see them leaving.

Yes, deselection is the only option.

[Atlanticatia]

Cooper leads among ex-Labour voters in a focus group in a marginal seat. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34087829

I think Cooper is both principled and pragmatic. And electable.

You realize literally the entirety of New Labour that is, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (sorta anyway), Alistair Campbell, Peter Mandelson, any other influential labour politician you can think of from the last 15 years has spent some time telling every labour member that corbyn is unelectable (the only exception I can think of Is good old John Prescott). So we get it you don't think the left wing will ever win an election again you think it's impossible we simply either disagree or at this point do not care.

So I can't express my opinions because they don't happen to support our lord and saviour Jeremy Corbyn? I linked to an article that showed how Cooper did particularly well among ex-Labour voters in marginal seats, that Labour needs to win back in order to win the election.
I am to the left of New Labour, anyway. I'm a centre-left social democrat.

Cooper leads among ex-Labour voters in a focus group in a marginal seat. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34087829

I think Cooper is both opportunist principled and pragmatic. And unelectable.

And fixed.

Not according to the article I linked that shows Cooper being the most electable among the voters Labour lost over the years. Labour needs to win back voters from all directions: the SNP and the Greens, yes, but there's no feasible way they can win the election without also winning over people who voted Tory in 2015. Labour needs those marginal seats.

Being part of the Labour party is basically all that's keeping some of the red tories in their seats so I don't really see them leaving.

Yes, deselection is the only option.

Labour has always been a big tent party. The issue is that under New Labour there wasn't enough open debate in the Party. But you can't deny that there have always been multiple factions within the Labour movement - the hard left, the soft left, and the right. All of those factions have a place in the Labour Party.
Even those on the hard left and the right agree on things - ending child poverty is one thing I can think of that seems to unite the Labour party.
Deselection, and looking inwards is not the answer. Hijacking the Labour Party is not a good idea - whether it's by the right or the hard left.

[Britanno 2]

I find it funny how this leadership election was expected to see the return of the Blairites to the top of the Labour Party and instead the party membership has stood for what it believed in (principled but electoral suicide).

[Hydesland]

I'd be interested to see a breakdown after the leadership election of how existing Labour party members voted versus new party members. Would that information become available?

[Olivaero]

You realize literally the entirety of New Labour that is, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (sorta anyway), Alistair Campbell, Peter Mandelson, any other influential labour politician you can think of from the last 15 years has spent some time telling every labour member that corbyn is unelectable (the only exception I can think of Is good old John Prescott). So we get it you don't think the left wing will ever win an election again you think it's impossible we simply either disagree or at this point do not care.

So I can't express my opinions because they don't happen to support our lord and saviour Jeremy Corbyn? I linked to an article that showed how Cooper did particularly well among ex-Labour voters in marginal seats, that Labour needs to win back in order to win the election.
I am to the left of New Labour, anyway. I'm a centre-left social democrat.

Sure you can express your opinion it's just the "electable" schtick is getting real fucking old now. Politicians have the power to shape public discourse and even move the position of the centre towards their political direction it's happened throughout our political history first Liberals then socialists then conservatives(/Neoliberals) well it's time for a change again.

And fixed.

Not according to the article I linked that shows Cooper being the most electable among the voters Labour lost over the years. Labour needs to win back voters from all directions: the SNP and the Greens, yes, but there's no feasible way they can win the election without also winning over people who voted Tory in 2015. Labour needs those marginal seats.

but winning back voters from the conservatives can be done in alternative ways to trying to beat them at their own game which New Labour has tried and failed to do in the previous two elections might I add. There's also a good 30% of the voting population who don't vote which is more than enough to tip numerous marginals labours way.

Yes, deselection is the only option.

Labour has always been a big tent party. The issue is that under New Labour there wasn't enough open debate in the Party. But you can't deny that there have always been multiple factions within the Labour movement - the hard left, the soft left, and the right. All of those factions have a place in the Labour Party.
Even those on the hard left and the right agree on things - ending child poverty is one thing I can think of that seems to unite the Labour party.
Deselection, and looking inwards is not the answer. Hijacking the Labour Party is not a good idea - whether it's by the right or the hard left.

The problem is the reaction we the far left have had from the Centrists and centre leftists when a viable candidate of ours has surfaced. It's clear they only want left wing support when it suits them and don't value our voice.

[Alyakia]

I find it funny how this leadership election was expected to see the return of the Blairites to the top of the Labour Party and instead the party membership has stood for what it believed in (principled but electoral suicide).

hmm. it seems to what labour needs to win is to find a leader that can energizes 100,000s of people that would otherwise have not cared or voted for other parties. if only, if only, there was such a candidate.

[Alyakia]

maybe it's.... liz kendall?

[Parti Ouvrier]

You realize literally the entirety of New Labour that is, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (sorta anyway), Alistair Campbell, Peter Mandelson, any other influential labour politician you can think of from the last 15 years has spent some time telling every labour member that corbyn is unelectable (the only exception I can think of Is good old John Prescott). So we get it you don't think the left wing will ever win an election again you think it's impossible we simply either disagree or at this point do not care.

So I can't express my opinions because they don't happen to support our lord and saviour Jeremy Corbyn? I linked to an article that showed how Cooper did particularly well among ex-Labour voters in marginal seats, that Labour needs to win back in order to win the election.
I am to the left of New Labour, anyway. I'm a centre-left social democrat.

And fixed.

Not according to the article I linked that shows Cooper being the most electable among the voters Labour lost over the years. Labour needs to win back voters from all directions: the SNP and the Greens, yes, but there's no feasible way they can win the election without also winning over people who voted Tory in 2015. Labour needs those marginal seats.

Yes, deselection is the only option.

Labour has always been a big tent party.

The Labourpurge suggests otherwise. Secondly, part of the strategy of the Tories is to get Labour to adopt their tory policies, which is where, 'getting those who voted Tory over to elect us['electability]'', gets you. It also shows a lack of confidence in 'Labour values' and anything remotely left wing to win them over to socialist ideas. Anyway, no matter,purge all you like, 12th September the fun begins, Corbyn as leader, and shifting the political weather to the left.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=340259&p=25813675&sid=f8f5be754bae34270820c6fc628a44da#p25813675

The issue is that under New Labour there wasn't enough open debate in the Party.

And there clearly isn't right now.

But you can't deny that there have always been multiple factions within the Labour movement - the hard left, the soft left, and the right. All of those factions have a place in the Labour Party.

Again, the current Labourpurge suggests otherwise - 'Stalinism meets McCarthyism'

Deselection, and looking inwards is not the answer. Hijacking the Labour Party is not a good idea - whether it's by the right or the hard left.

Disenfranchising people makes it justified.

http://onionbagblog.com/2015/08/20/whyn ... bourparty/
And from the comments section.

'Lee Hyde
August 21, 2015 at 1:17 am

“I started a petition because I think we should take time to weed out entryists. Result – hard left threatening to deselect me!”

What a stunning lack of awareness an perspective! Forgive me if I set aside your characterisation of these anonymous folk as ‘hard left’, but I doubt your sufficiently objective and humble enough to accurately place anybody on the right-left spectrum. Three things here though:

1) You apparently make a very real, and in hindsight materiel threat to report and disenfranchise Labour supporters, and they or members acting in their defence (and Labours interests and honour) respond with immaterial threats of possible de-selection. You don’t see the hypocrisy and dis-proportionality at play here?

2) You’re aware that de-selection is a relatively onerous task to undertake. One member alone cannot undertake your de-sellection, and as far as I can tell supporters get no say in such matters. Unless you’ve managed to draw the ire of most of your CLP (just how many are you reporting!), I doubt you’ll have a problem.

and 3) De-selection is a natural part of any truly democratic process. In fact, it is all too rare that we see this process triggered! If the spectre of de-selection raises it’s head in your manor, rally your supporters and argue your case. If the majority vote to de-select you, accept and respect the democratic will of you r CLP and slink off quietly.

The bottom line is this; you partook in a peevish witch hunt,the consequences of which were at least one supporter has been rejected. In contrast, the subjects of said witch hunt flung around empty threats , and you’re now no closer to de-selletion. Get a grip man!

“It worries me that your motivation is merely to damage the party”
It really is stunning Alex that you can’t comprehend that many true labourites have come to see you and your ilk as the electoral liability. Their aim in side-lining Progress careerists isn’t to ‘damage’ the party, but rather to save it from your brand of managerialism, spin and vapid politics of triangulation, and to restore some sense of grass roots engagement and popular democracy!

“attack it from within and purge moderates.”

Wow! You really believe you’re a moderate don’t. It’s your camp threatening a split, coups, internecine conflict and briefings against Corbyn should he win! You want to talk of entryism? About damaging the party within? You lot are the ultimate entryists; the all too shrewd/cowardly sons of the SDA, who succeeded were the the SDP did not. Safe in you evacuated ideological bubble, your place in the party secured by the anti-democratic top down reforms and managerialism of the Kinnock and Blair years, you’ve continued your drift to the right. You’re now indistinguishable from authoritarian liberals; democratic socialists in name only. Even the SDP didn’t dream of such a swing to the right, and the rump of the old Liberal party looks positively marxist in contrast to your lot (http://www.liberal.org.uk/).

“Just trying to uphold our rules and values, comrade. ”

That’d be the rules and values most aptly summed up as ‘ensure that only those precisely like me can wield power and influence within the party, whilst offering scant and superficial lip service to Labour’s so called broad church’. You and yours have had the perfect opportunity to bail-in principled lefties such as Jason(?) and myself, to have these debates in good faith and humour, to hammer a new kind of politics and a new consensus for the twenty first century, but you blew it. Instead you patronised us; dismissed our idea(l)s out of hand as ‘impractical’, ‘unrealistic’ and ‘old fashioned; refused to debate the issues, rather preferring spin and ‘new speak’ to subdtantial criticism; denigrated and defamed as as ‘morons’, cooks, ‘self-indulgent children’ and now anti-Semites; misinterpreted our intentions and projected your own narrow views and interests onto the general public; and now the phoney cries of ‘infiltrator!’, ‘entryist!’ and ‘infamy! Infamy! they’ve all got it in for me!’!

“Incidentally, I reported my concerns about you 9 days before you wrote your blog.”

The wheels and cogs of the ministry of alteration do turn slowly. I’m not sure if timing is strictly relevant though; you Do appear to have informed on Jason on the flimsiest of pretext – name personal if robust personal disagreements over policy. Would you care to inform on me too? That’s me real name up there, I am registered in Welwyn Hatfield CLP’s territory and whilst I’ve already been rejected* I’m sure they’ll happily add to my ‘file’ whatever ‘evidence’ you can muster and subsequently twist and spin.

* On what grounds I do not know; that I self-style as a libertarian socialist? That I’m a sarky git at times, to wit this comment? That I own and operate my own beard? We’ll probably never know, given the LPHQ mob’s love of opacity.'

[Parti Ouvrier]

So I can't express my opinions because they don't happen to support our lord and saviour Jeremy Corbyn? I linked to an article that showed how Cooper did particularly well among ex-Labour voters in marginal seats, that Labour needs to win back in order to win the election.
I am to the left of New Labour, anyway. I'm a centre-left social democrat.

Sure you can express your opinion it's just the "electable" schtick is getting real fucking old now. Politicians have the power to shape public discourse and even move the position of the centre towards their political direction it's happened throughout our political history first Liberals then socialists then conservatives(/Neoliberals) well it's time for a change again.

Not according to the article I linked that shows Cooper being the most electable among the voters Labour lost over the years. Labour needs to win back voters from all directions: the SNP and the Greens, yes, but there's no feasible way they can win the election without also winning over people who voted Tory in 2015. Labour needs those marginal seats.

but winning back voters from the conservatives can be done in alternative ways to trying to beat them at their own game which New Labour has tried and failed to do in the previous two elections might I add. There's also a good 30% of the voting population who don't vote might I add which is more than enough to tip numerous marginals labours way.

Labour has always been a big tent party. The issue is that under New Labour there wasn't enough open debate in the Party. But you can't deny that there have always been multiple factions within the Labour movement - the hard left, the soft left, and the right. All of those factions have a place in the Labour Party.
Even those on the hard left and the right agree on things - ending child poverty is one thing I can think of that seems to unite the Labour party.
Deselection, and looking inwards is not the answer. Hijacking the Labour Party is not a good idea - whether it's by the right or the hard left.

The problem is the reaction we the far left have had from the Centrists and centre leftists when a viable candidate of ours has surfaced. It's clear they only want left wing support when it suits them and don't value our voice.

Damn, you beat me to it.

[Olivaero]

Sure you can express your opinion it's just the "electable" schtick is getting real fucking old now. Politicians have the power to shape public discourse and even move the position of the centre towards their political direction it's happened throughout our political history first Liberals then socialists then conservatives(/Neoliberals) well it's time for a change again.


but winning back voters from the conservatives can be done in alternative ways to trying to beat them at their own game which New Labour has tried and failed to do in the previous two elections might I add. There's also a good 30% of the voting population who don't vote might I add which is more than enough to tip numerous marginals labours way.

The problem is the reaction we the far left have had from the Centrists and centre leftists when a viable candidate of ours has surfaced. It's clear they only want left wing support when it suits them and don't value our voice.

Damn, you beat me to it.

Your post contains more sources than mine though so I'll let you off for being late

[Hydesland]

This is disturbing and extremely damning for Corbyn:

http://jeremycorbyn.org.uk/articles/venezuela/

In a sense history is being played out to its fullest extent in Venezuela, where the Bolivarian revolution is in full swing and is providing inspiration across a whole continent.

Venezuela is seriously conquering poverty by emphatically rejecting the Neo Liberal policies of the world’s financial institutions.

Just a reminder that Venezuela is easily one of the most atrociously run economies in the world right now, with inflation at 800% (only Ukraine is comparable currently, and that is understandable given the terrible conditions war brings); the problems in Venezuela are almost entirely man made, there is no exogenous uncontrollable event that justifies the terrible conditions (no, low oil prices are not a justification - exposing your economy to only one productive export just demonstrates how terribly mismanaged your economy is).

Corbyn must distance himself from Venezuelan style economics.