2015 UK Politics Megathread

[Atlanticatia]

I'm torn between backing Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper for Labour leader.

[Britanno 2]

I'm torn between backing Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper for Labour leader.

One couldn't win a general election to save his life and one is utterly uncharismatic.

[Krytenia]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

[Geilinor]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Thatcher tried "standing up" to the unions, it was a disaster by most accounts.

[The Matthew Islands]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Thatcher tried "standing up" to the unions, it was a disaster by most accounts.

Depends on where you live. Some people lose a lot from Thatcher, but just as many people gained out if it as well.

[Atlanticatia]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Social democracy is pretty much about supporting collective bargaining and supporting a tax-funded welfare state.

[The Matthew Islands]

Not a British person (Britisher?), but what's so bad about a referendum? I support the EU I guess, and I'd hazard a guess that most actual people in the UK do too, so why not shut up the racist loony UKIP by having a referendum on it? It worked for the SNP, at least for now.

The problem with holding a referendum on the EU, is that the Pro-European side will be forced to actually *Shudder* engage with the electorate, as opposed to just calling them all racists/bigots or whatever.

[Steamtopia]

Not a British person (Britisher?), but what's so bad about a referendum? I support the EU I guess, and I'd hazard a guess that most actual people in the UK do too, so why not shut up the racist loony UKIP by having a referendum on it? It worked for the SNP, at least for now.

The problem with holding a referendum on the EU, is that the Pro-European side will be forced to actually *Shudder* engage with the electorate, as opposed to just calling them all racists/bigots or whatever.

Ah, yes, I too enjoy people interrupting the thread to attempt a circlejerk using generalisations.

[Geilinor]

Thatcher tried "standing up" to the unions, it was a disaster by most accounts.

Depends on where you live. Some people lose a lot from Thatcher, but just as many people gained out if it as well.

By "disaster", I meant that it ruined the government's relations with unions. Cooperating with them can work, and better.

[Calimera II]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Social democracy is pretty much about supporting collective bargaining and supporting a tax-funded welfare state.

Krytenia wants a neoliberal pseudo-social democratic labour party.

[Steamtopia]

Social democracy is pretty much about supporting collective bargaining and supporting a tax-funded welfare state.

Krytenia wants a neoliberal pseudo-social democratic labour party.

So.. what Labour is now?

[Calimera II]

Krytenia wants a neoliberal pseudo-social democratic labour party.

So.. what Labour is now?

Yea, but more neocon.

[Purger]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Being charismatic and member of a Labour is contradictory therefore impossible.

[Geilinor]

So.. what Labour is now?

Yea, but more neocon.

So... New Labour?

[Steamtopia]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Being charismatic and member of a Labour is contradictory therefore impossible.

That explains Tony Blair leading Labour to landslide victories repeatedly.


No, wait, it doesn't. Once again, the Balkan has no clue what is going on in the UK. Just stop embarrassing yourself.

[Purger]

Being charismatic and member of a Labour is contradictory therefore impossible.

That explains Tony Blair leading Labour to landslide victories repeatedly.


No, wait, it doesn't. Once again, the Balkan has no clue what is going on in the UK. Just stop embarrassing yourself.

Tony Blair is not a traditional Labourer and his ideology distance itself from that. This just prooves my point.

Neither the UK in the Balkans but it did bot prevent assholes like Paddy Ashdown to run the affairs of B&H.

[Apollinis]

The last thing Labour needs is to move further left. They need a good, charismatic leader from the SD-leaning right of the party; someone not afraid to stand up to the unions (though not to the extent of the right-wing parties) but still be business-minded enough to not scare the private sector. They must also be unafraid to move away from traditional Labour tax-and-spend economic models.

Being charismatic and member of a Labour is contradictory therefore impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Mowlam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Skinner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuka_Umunna

I like some of those people considerably more than others, but your claim that being a member of Labour precludes charisma is utter nonsense.

[Steamtopia]

That explains Tony Blair leading Labour to landslide victories repeatedly.


No, wait, it doesn't. Once again, the Balkan has no clue what is going on in the UK. Just stop embarrassing yourself.

Tony Blair is not a traditional Labourer and his ideology distance itself from that. This just prooves my point.

Neither the UK in the Balkans but it did bot prevent assholes like Paddy Ashdown to run the affairs of B&H.

Tony Blair is a Labourite, regardless of how angry that makes Labourites. This proves your statement wrong.

[Purger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Mowlam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Skinner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuka_Umunna

I like some of those people considerably more than others, but your claim that being a member of Labour precludes charisma is utter nonsense.

You have to keep on mind the average Labour voter is a low class manual worker who dropped school at early age around 17 or 18, and living in economically undeveloped parts of the UK (Scotland and Northern England). Such people are easily to manipulate and do not know how the world works, they only follow messages that fits their selfish class interests (which is usually said by profressional Labour politicians). Even if the Labour candidates a monkey in their constituency, the average Labour voter would be deluded enough to vote for that monkey.

That is contrary to the Torries and UKIP memebers who are made up of educated people who attended Oxford and who are professionals in economy and international affairs. Such are the average Torry voters as well. They know how the world works.

[Steamtopia]

You have to keep on mind the average Labour voter is a low class manual worker who dropped school at early age around 17 or 18, and living in economically undeveloped parts of the UK (Scotland and Northern England). Such people are easily to manipulate and do not know how the world works, they only follow messages that fits their selfish class interests (which is usually said by profressional Labour politicians). Even if the Labout candidates a monkey in their constituency, the average Labour voter would be deluded enough to vote for that monkey.

That is contrary to the Torries and UKIP memebers who are made up of educated people who attended Oxford and who are professionals in economy and international affairs. Such are the average Torry voters as well. They know how the world works.

Are you trolling, or are you just ignorant?
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05125.pdf

UKIP has the 2nd highest level of people who left education at 16. Only the BNP has a higher ratio. The Greens are lowest, followed by the Lib Dems, not the Tories who are almost neck-and-neck with Labour.

[Apollinis]

You have to keep on mind the average Labour voter is a low class manual worker who dropped school at early age around 17 or 18, and living in economically undeveloped parts of the UK (Scotland and Northern England). Such people are easily to manipulate and do not know how the world works, they only follow messages that fits their selfish class interests (which is usually said by profressional Labour politicians). Even if the Labout candidates a monkey in their constituency, the average Labour voter would be deluded enough to vote for that monkey.

That is contrary to the Torries and UKIP memebers who are made up of educated people who attended Oxford and who are professionals in economy and international affairs. Such are the average Torry voters as well. They know how the world works.

You're embarrassing yourself by demonstrating, once again, that you know nothing about British politics.
1) The average Labour voter is not Scottish nowadays. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
2) Many, many Labour voters are Londoners, many of whom are middle-class. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
3) Your claim that Labour voters inherently don't know how the world works (pot, meet kettle) is delusional trollish shite. It does not deserve any kind of rebuttal.
4) Both Oxford East(?) and Cambridge are Labour-held constituencies. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
5) Lots of working-class people vote for the Tories and UKIP; in fact, many UKIP voters are ex-Labour voters. Hence UKIP's use of populist rhetoric and Nigel Farage's populist persona. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
6) The vast majority of Tory voters are not "professionals in economy and international affairs". Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.

[Britanno 2]

Social democracy is pretty much about supporting collective bargaining and supporting a tax-funded welfare state.

True, but social democracy doesn't win British elections anymore. The left needs to understand this if it ever hopes to regain power which, for the record, I hope it does.

Here's to a 2020 Lab-Lib coalition led by David Miliband. We can only dream.

[Purger]

You have to keep on mind the average Labour voter is a low class manual worker who dropped school at early age around 17 or 18, and living in economically undeveloped parts of the UK (Scotland and Northern England). Such people are easily to manipulate and do not know how the world works, they only follow messages that fits their selfish class interests (which is usually said by profressional Labour politicians). Even if the Labout candidates a monkey in their constituency, the average Labour voter would be deluded enough to vote for that monkey.

That is contrary to the Torries and UKIP memebers who are made up of educated people who attended Oxford and who are professionals in economy and international affairs. Such are the average Torry voters as well. They know how the world works.

Are you trolling, or are you just ignorant?
http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05125.pdf

UKIP has the 2nd highest level of people who left education at 16. Only the BNP has a higher ratio. The Greens are lowest, followed by the Lib Dems, not the Tories who are almost neck-and-neck with Labour.

It is because the UKIP and BNP were clever enough to use the racist feeling that is present among the low class white workers and instrumentalise in their own benefits.

[Steamtopia]

Are you trolling, or are you just ignorant?
http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05125.pdf

UKIP has the 2nd highest level of people who left education at 16. Only the BNP has a higher ratio. The Greens are lowest, followed by the Lib Dems, not the Tories who are almost neck-and-neck with Labour.

It is because the UKIP and BNP were clever enough to use the racist feeling that is present among the low class white workers and instrumentalise in their own benefits.

Okay, so you're just trolling. Good to know.

[Purger]

You're embarrassing yourself by demonstrating, once again, that you know nothing about British politics.
1) The average Labour voter is not Scottish nowadays. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
2) Many, many Labour voters are Londoners, many of whom are middle-class. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
3) Your claim that Labour voters inherently don't know how the world works (pot, meet kettle) is delusional trollish shite. It does not deserve any kind of rebuttal.
4) Both Oxford East(?) and Cambridge are Labour-held constituencies. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
5) Lots of working-class people vote for the Tories and UKIP; in fact, many UKIP voters are ex-Labour voters. Hence UKIP's use of populist rhetoric and Nigel Farage's populist persona. Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.
6) The vast majority of Tory voters are not "professionals in economy and international affairs". Which you'd know if you knew anything about British politics.

1) True but the SNP is till left-wing and shares a lot in common with Labout
2) It is because many immigrants and low class workforce migrated in London, it is not nothing unusuall. There are a lot Islamists living in London and most likely vote for Labour.
3) the tranlation of your point: "I have no argument therefore I ignore facts"
4) I am not speaking about people who live there but who studied college there
5) See my previous post. Basically UKIP aplies to the racist feeling of the white workforce and convince them that foreigner is taking their jobs.
6) They are not but they are certainly educated enought to know that government depency is bad.