2015 UK Politics Megathread

[Monkeykind]

Why can't we be more like America?

tories usually pretend they don't want to be like america

Why on Earth not? The American politcal system is superior to the British one.

You're saying a surplus isn't neccessary? You're saying we should get further and further in debt and leave that debt for our children?

There is a point though, where a small budget deficit doesn't matter that much. At that point, debt would be increasing at a minute rate, and shrinking rapidly compared to GDP.


So, some cuts are good, but just not a relentless Tory austerity drive (which Osborne doesn't actually follow anyhow - even he knows not to)

We still need to reduce it further. £70 billion is a lot of money.

That is true, but Labour will cut far too slowly.

[Vassenor]

Everyone ignores Universal Credit.

Because it's a fucking mess.

[Vassenor]

Why on Earth not? The American politcal system is superior to the British one.

It's Gerrymandered to hell and back. One house is full of people who have to spend all their time campaigning because their terms are so short and the other house is full of people being being apathetic.

[Alyakia]

tories usually pretend they don't want to be like america

Why on Earth not? The American politcal system is superior to the British one.

There is a point though, where a small budget deficit doesn't matter that much. At that point, debt would be increasing at a minute rate, and shrinking rapidly compared to GDP.


So, some cuts are good, but just not a relentless Tory austerity drive (which Osborne doesn't actually follow anyhow - even he knows not to)

We still need to reduce it further. £70 billion is a lot of money.

That is true, but Labour will cut far too slowly.

no it isn't superior why the hell would you possibly think that

[Teemant]

I don't support UKIP political views but UK election systems made me scratch my head.

SNP with 1,45 million votes gets 56 seats in parliament meanwhile UKIP gets 1 seat with 3,9 million votes. This is outrageous.

it's important to keep it in context. the SNP got 1.45 million votes, but they only ran in scotland. that's 50% of the scottish vote. UKIP ran everywhere, so they only got like 12% of the UK vote. the system is fucked, but it's not that fucked.

If this is a unified country then it means something that by getting 2x less votes is possible to get 56x more seats.

[Novus America]

Why on Earth not? The American politcal system is superior to the British one.

It's Gerrymandered to hell and back. One house is full of people who have to spend all their time campaigning because their terms are so short and the other house is full of people being being apathetic.

Better than the British one does not mean good. Yes it needs work, but it is much more representative. Our results are not in perfect keeping with the popular vote, but are at least close, we have never had anything this out of whack.

[Valaran]

We still need to reduce it further. £70 billion is a lot of money.

That is true, but Labour will cut far too slowly.

Somewhat. We could start by doing something about the pensions and make it means tested (doubtless the opposite of a votewinner). This scheme costs far more money than welfare, and pays richer pensioners handsomely.

My problem is that the Tories use the cuts for an ideological agenda as much as an economic one - ie against migrants and 'benefit scroungers', rather than where it might be more effective.

This isn't always true - they are generally economically competent, but in this case, it is evident.


About Labour, maybe. I think Ed would have mismanaged it somewhat, but someone like Umunna is more savvy.

And you may say £70 billion is a lot, but its squat compared to GDP of nearly £3trillion. Invest in increasing that, and it will look rather smaller (plus the tax revenue would then help cut it further).

[Vassenor]

Better than the British one does not mean good. Yes it needs work, but it is much more representative. Our results are not in perfect keeping with the popular vote, but are at least close, we have never had anything this out of whack.

More representative in that it pretends more people live in some places and less live in others.

[Alyakia]

it's important to keep it in context. the SNP got 1.45 million votes, but they only ran in scotland. that's 50% of the scottish vote. UKIP ran everywhere, so they only got like 12% of the UK vote. the system is fucked, but it's not that fucked.

If this is a unified country then it means something that by getting 2x less votes in possible to get 56x more seats.

like i said it's not about how many votes you get it's where you get them

[Val Halla]

Looked up a TUSC candidate in my constituency...

[Valaran]

Why on Earth not? The American politcal system is superior to the British one.

uhhhh.... polite disagreement.

We can actually pass legislation, and don't try to impeach our leader every so often. Partisan deadlock (and gerrymandering) isn't desirable.


And this is before we get to the money in US politics...

[Valaran]

Looked up a TUSC candidate in my constituency...

(Image)

Friendship Socialism is magic?

[Atlanticatia]

You're saying a surplus isn't neccessary? You're saying we should get further and further in debt and leave that debt for our children?

And the rich for the labour. Why can't we be more like America?

That's such a bullshit argument. Only one number really matters: what debt interest payments are as a percentage of GDP, and whether it will be affordable, and what the net benefit will be of higher debt interest payments vs. spending cuts.

Austerity hurts GDP growth, wages and employment. Therefore, tax revenues fall. Deficits grow larger because of less revenue and higher social security costs. More people end up in poverty. Education and health standards fall.

If you have no austerity, short-term deficits/debt interest will be higher. But wages and employment will be higher. Therefore tax revenues increase and spending on social security falls naturally. In the long term, deficits fall and debt interest/debt as a % of GDP becomes a non-issue as economic growth is higher and outpaces the growth of debt. Less people are in poverty and public services are protected.

I think our children will be better off not growing up in poverty, and having a good education/health system.
Labour and the SNP were right when they said cooling down on austerity (or in SNP's case, having fiscally responsible spending increases) would lead to rising wages/growth and therefore tax revenues, and then less spending on benefits and tax credits.

(And yes, be like America where there have been only 3 surpluses in the past 41 years, and an average deficit of 3.1% of GDP.)

[Alyakia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 42735.html

Like the case of David Clapson, a diabetes sufferer who was found dead from acute lack of insulin after his benefits had been stopped. There was no food in his flat – or in his stomach, an autopsy found – and he had just £3.44 in his bank account. Why? Because the ex-soldier, who was reportedly found with a pile of printed CV’s near his body, had been deemed not to be taking the search for work seriously enough.

Then there was Mark Wood, a 44-year-old man with complex mental health issues who starved to death after he was passed as fit-to-work by an Atos assessment. Wood, who had his sickness and housing benefits stopped and was forced to live off just £40 a week, was found weighing just 5st 8lbs and with a body mass index that his doctor said was not compatible with life.

Or Jacqueline Harris, who was partially sighted and had difficulty walking due to slipped discs in her back and neck. The 53-year-old took an overdose after being passed fit-for-work at an Atos assessment, which, it was claimed, took just a few minutes and consisted of only one question: “Did you come here by bus?”

Nicholas Peter Barker, 51. Shot himself after being told his benefits were being stopped. He was unable to work after a brain haemorrhage left him paralysed down one side.

Looked up a TUSC candidate in my constituency...

(Image)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZs5POCp0I

[Novus America]

Better than the British one does not mean good. Yes it needs work, but it is much more representative. Our results are not in perfect keeping with the popular vote, but are at least close, we have never had anything this out of whack.

More representative in that it pretends more people live in some places and less live in others.

How is that any worse than the British one, where the largest constituency is some 111,000, and the smallest 22,000 and they get equal vote? I am just saying, and you cannot deny the US is MORE representative. The point is not to ague what can be improved in the US system. Again we have never had anything nearly as messed up as this SNP thing.

[Val Halla]

Looked up a TUSC candidate in my constituency...

(Image)

Friendship Socialism is magic?

Be scared. She's called Val O'Flynn.

[Alyakia]

More representative in that it pretends more people live in some places and less live in others.

How is that any worse than the British one, where the largest constituency is some 111,000, and the smallest 22,000 and they get equal vote? I am just saying, and you cannot deny the US is MORE representative. The point is not to ague what can be improved in the US system. Again we have never had anything nearly as messed up as this SNP thing.

you could never have an SNP thing. this is because the people democratically voting in a third party is completely unthinkable. :-)

[Valaran]

Friendship Socialism is magic?

Be scared. She's called Val O'Flynn.

I'm We're screwed.

Fly rainbow dash! For the proletariat ponies!

[Teemant]

If this is a unified country then it means something that by getting 2x less votes in possible to get 56x more seats.

like i said it's not about how many votes you get it's where you get them

It is very unfair system to say the least because parliament must represent the whole population. It is possible to win large number of seats with very few votes and it is a serious flaw in my opinion. It makes peoples votes who live in bigger constituencies less relevant than those who live in smaller ones.

[Alyakia]

like i said it's not about how many votes you get it's where you get them

It is very unfair system to say the least because parliament must represent the whole population. It is possible to win large number of seats with very few votes actually then and it is a serious flaw in my opinion. It makes peoples votes who live in bigger constituencies less relevant than those who live in smaller ones.

this is true yes

[Val Halla]

Be scared. She's called Val O'Flynn.

I'm We're screwed.

Fly rainbow dash! For the proletariat ponies!

And fish. Grimsby, remember?

[Atlanticatia]

I also think the UK should look at a federal system since clearly a unitary state might be ineffective with recent growth in nationalist movements. Perhaps have a system similar to Canada, with asymmetrical federalism which could allow Scotland more autonomy while retaining the union.

[Greater-London]

I also think the UK should look at a federal system since clearly a unitary state might be ineffective with recent growth in nationalist movements. Perhaps have a system similar to Canada, with asymmetrical federalism which could allow Scotland more autonomy while retaining the union.

I think this is pretty much what most people want. I was quite tired at the time but I seem to remember Boris Johnson going on about federalism in his acceptance speech?

[Arglorand]

How is that any worse than the British one, where the largest constituency is some 111,000, and the smallest 22,000 and they get equal vote? I am just saying, and you cannot deny the US is MORE representative. The point is not to ague what can be improved in the US system. Again we have never had anything nearly as messed up as this SNP thing.

you could never have an SNP thing. this is because the people democratically voting in a third party is completely unthinkable. :-)

I honestly wonder how long people will continue pretending the SNP's victories are lehiterally the apocalypse and a Tory majority is just fine

[Valaran]

I'm We're screwed.

Fly rainbow dash! For the proletariat ponies!

And fish. Grimsby, remember?

Get out of there. Now

Also, fly for the proletariat....fish? No cuts to schools of cod? More seawater for every flipper?