We Do Not Kneel

[Great Nepal]

You see, but in this scenario the dictator is launching invasion of foreign nation-proper. There is no oppression, no occupation or anything of the kind just one government deciding to invade another of its own accord. From this we can infer that both nations are of similar strengths, as no country would declare an offensive war that it would obviously loose.

See: Both World Wars, Vietnam War, Korean War. There have been situations like that.

In all of those cases wars were started by parties who could in theory have won. In WW1, Austria could have won over Serbia and Germany believed UK would not start a world war over Belgium. In Korean War, North did in fact practically win once and combined force of China and Russia was comparable with US and NATO. In Vietnam war, US could have definitely won the war with public support behind it.
Granted either their assumptions didn't pan out or there were unforeseen external factors but country who starts the war starts it with assumption that it can win - assumption which requires either a disillusion mind or comparable force.

[Ainin]

I would kneel, walk out and then when the government arms the revolutionaries with their arms to fight this foreign war I would rise up again - maybe even talk to this foreign leader and wage unified fronted war; after all words are nothing but wind.

Yeah, because they would totally give their enemies the same grade weapons. And the foreign power will obviously be a good force and allow you to create your state. It just doesn't work that easily, because dictators, for the most part, aren't idiots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_ ... ionary_War

[Greater Nevadian Empire]

I would kneel.

[Scepez]

See: Both World Wars, Vietnam War, Korean War. There have been situations like that.

The world wars were pretty close. If Germany in either of the wars played their cards differently, they could've have something a lot closer to winning than what actually did happen.

For the vietnam war, it was very clear that the US was going to win. Us being one of the two superpowers of the world, it would be logical to assume we could've taken on a impoverished east-asian country. But the US lost. Not because it actually was beaten, but because the war simply was not worth it after a while. Due to internal pressure and other matters, we had to pull out.

What are you even talking about with the Korean war? The Korean war is technically still going on.

Whether Germany pulled the right cards or not, they didn't have the numbers to take down Russia along with the UK and US. It was a lost cause.

It's still a defeat. they didn't accomplish their goal, which is what failure is.

The Korean was might still be going on, but there's absolutely no fighting, and N.Korea lost, even if it still technically hasn't ended.

[Sun Wukong]

Ask if I can kiss his feet instead.

Go Norman on his ass.

[Antanites]

Never! I will resist as hard as possible to show these idiots the power of an Antanite!

[Pandeeria]

The world wars were pretty close. If Germany in either of the wars played their cards differently, they could've have something a lot closer to winning than what actually did happen.

For the vietnam war, it was very clear that the US was going to win. Us being one of the two superpowers of the world, it would be logical to assume we could've taken on a impoverished east-asian country. But the US lost. Not because it actually was beaten, but because the war simply was not worth it after a while. Due to internal pressure and other matters, we had to pull out.

What are you even talking about with the Korean war? The Korean war is technically still going on.

Whether Germany pulled the right cards or not, they didn't have the numbers to take down Russia along with the UK and US. It was a lost cause.

It's still a defeat. they didn't accomplish their goal, which is what failure is.

The Korean was might still be going on, but there's absolutely no fighting, and N.Korea lost, even if it still technically hasn't ended.

The Korean War is more of a tie than anything. It is true that the North Korean offensive got it's ass whipped, just as the South Korean got it's ass whipped.

In world war one, Germany didn't think the Austro-Hungarians would lose that badly on both the Serbian front and the Russian front. And considering Russia was an unstable, undeveloped shit hole during world war one, Germany easily could've beat Russia in WW1.

In World War 2, the Germans were initially making excellent gains on the Eastern front. Hitler underestimated the strength of the USSR, and they were sorta dragged into a war with the US do to their stupid ally Japan.

[Sun Wukong]

Never! I will resist as hard as possible to show these idiots the power of an Antanite!

Well...

That will be over quickly.

[Liberusy]

"Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death" - Patrick Henry

"My only Regret is That I have but one life to lose for my country" -Nathan Hale [who was hung for being a spy for America during the Revolution]

"If a man has not discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live." -MLK Jr.

"They may be able to take the breath from our lungs, but they can never take the freedoms from our souls." -July4patriot

"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain

"He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy." -Socrates

"'Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.' Then Moses summoned Joshua and said to him in the presence of all Israel, 'Be strong and courageous, for you must go with this people into the land that the LORD swore to their forefathers to give them, and you must divide it among them as their inheritance. The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.'" -Deuteronomy 31:6-8

I like to think that I would let them take my life rather then my liberty and courage/honor. But to be honest you never know until you are in that situation. It would be a lot harder for me to let them kill me without fighting, then it would be for me to "go down swinging" I don't know which one would be the right answer. You see the people Martyred [like the Coptic Christians in Egypt] and there way of just sticking with there faith and letting nothing on earth change it, and not kicking and screaming when someone tries to kill them for it, it is undeniably honorable, however I doubt I could do it.

More likely me would be like in this prayer:
"Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be “If only I had my gun”; and Lord if today is truly the day that You call me home, let me die in a pile of brass."

[Salus Maior]

We do not kneel. Martyrdom is powerful.

[Salus Maior]

No, fight to the bloody end until your homeland is totally freed from the oppressive dictatorship.

And be executed and your revolution dies with you?

That's stupid. Kneel and when they release you, you keep fighting.

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

[Ifreann]

And be executed and your revolution dies with you?

That's stupid. Kneel and when they release you, you keep fighting.

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

Nobody will trust you when you're dead either.

[Liberusy]

And be executed and your revolution dies with you?

That's stupid. Kneel and when they release you, you keep fighting.

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

Agreed. It would be 1000 times more powerful to show that its a cause you are willing to die for!!

[Salus Maior]

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

Nobody will trust you when you're dead either.

Is that supposed to make sense?

[Ifreann]

Nobody will trust you when you're dead either.

Is that supposed to make sense?

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

[Sun Wukong]

Nobody will trust you when you're dead either.

Is that supposed to make sense?

Maybe he lives somewhere where the undead are a chronic problem?

[Sun Wukong]

Is that supposed to make sense?

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

El Cid pulled it off.

[Ifreann]

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

El Cid pulled it off.

That might not work as well after you've been publicly burned to death.

[Liberusy]

Is that supposed to make sense?

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

If you die a noble sacrifice then you will be a legend and your spirit and legacy will live on. But if you surrender you will be forever no longer trusted coward and your cause [whatever it may be] will wither and die.

[Great Nepal]

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

If you die a noble sacrifice then you will be a legend and your spirit and legacy will live on. But if you surrender you will be forever no longer trusted coward and your cause [whatever it may be] will wither and die.

Or you know, you surrender go into the front line with your followers and say fuck you to surrender agreement and rebel again.

[Sun Wukong]

El Cid pulled it off.

That might not work as well after you've been publicly burned to death.

Well... that or it would be even more impressive.

[Ifreann]

You're suggesting that if you kneel you won't be able to lead your people any more, because they won't trust you. I'm pointing out that the same is true if you're dead. Worse, if you're dead you generally stay dead. If you kneel and people stop trusting you, you can win their trust back.

If you die a noble sacrifice then you will be a legend and your spirit and legacy will live on. But if you surrender you will be forever no longer trusted coward and your cause [whatever it may be] will wither and die.

Or you get martyred and then your cause is crushed without your leadership. Or your people see the fate that awaits them if they don't kneel and become disheartened and abandon the cause. It's hardly a simple matter of death -> victory. Similarly, if you kneel you've just got all your people armed and all it cost was kneeling. People will respect your pragmatism and cunning. You'll be hailed as a genius and a hero when you turn and kill your enemy with their own weapons.

[Havenburgh]

I believe there was once a great movie about a catch, a catch 22 that is. I believe this quote was
"No, it is better to live in your feet, then die on your knees."

You see, I would kneel. Why? Because it was all a trick. I ment to get captured so they brought me to their secret base. Then my awsome rebel buddies attack. I kneel in just enough time for the bullet to whiz above me and hit the dictator in the throat. Case closed.

Anyway, in all seriousness, I would never kneel. If you started this rebellion, why would you betray it to save your own life which would probably be taken anyway on the battlefield. No, I say that I am honourable, and will proudly die for the cause, to use me as a martyr to push the people Forward. The never say die approach is always best. As I stay standing, I would spit in the dictators face and say "go ahead and kill me. I'm just one in many ready to take you on, ready to tear you down. Killing me will accomplish nothing. As one head is chopped off two more grow. We can nevery die.we are eternal!

[Rio Cana]

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

Agreed. It would be 1000 times more powerful to show that its a cause you are willing to die for!!

Unfortunately, one person can be the revolution. They can be brave and defiant but if they are eliminated the whole thing can fall apart.

[Natapoc]

More like be executed and become a martyr. Kneeling would show weakness and/or valuing your own safety over your cause. Nobody would trust you after that.

Agreed. It would be 1000 times more powerful to show that its a cause you are willing to die for!!

I prefer to live for my causes. I find that living for ones cause is substantially more impactful than dying for it.

I can do so much more for my causes while living than dead.