We Do Not Kneel

[Salus Maior]

Dying bravely for your cause doesn't make you right or noble. You know who else gladly dies for their cause? ISIS.

They become "right and noble" in the eyes of their sympathizers and thus gain more support regardless of your cause.

I mean really, are we questioning the power of martyrdom? Time and time again throughout history it has been proven that martyrdom can invigorate or rally a cause even in a hopeless situation.

[Ifreann]

Dying bravely for your cause doesn't make you right or noble. You know who else gladly dies for their cause? ISIS.

They become "right and noble" in the eyes of their sympathizers and thus gain more support regardless of your cause.

I mean really, are we questioning the power of martyrdom? Time and time again throughout history it has been proven that martyrdom can invigorate or rally a cause even in a hopeless situation.

Know what else is useful? People who aren't dead.

[Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf]

Kneeling is a coward's way out. I'm not a coward.

[Ifreann]

Kneeling is a coward's way out. I'm not a coward.

You should try it some time. We get out of all kinds of things.

[Conscentia]

Kneeling is a coward's way out. I'm not a coward.

Being surviving to fight another day isn't cowardice.

[Infected Mushroom]

Kneeling is a coward's way out. I'm not a coward.

You should try it some time. We get out of all kinds of things.

Every has a choice in life. They can be noble like a Stark or as courageous as the Lion of Lannister... or they can become a self-preservationist like Pycelle with mediocre achievements and bad moral repute.

[Ifreann]

You should try it some time. We get out of all kinds of things.

Every has a choice in life. They can be noble like a Stark

Like Torrhen Stark?

or as courageous as the Lion of Lannister...

Like Tytos Lannister?

or they can become a self-preservationist like Pycelle with mediocre achievements and bad moral repute.

Being Grand Maester of the Citadel is no mediocre achievement. Nor is life so simple a thing that it can be summed up in a single dichotomy.

[Infected Mushroom]

Kneeling is a coward's way out. I'm not a coward.

Being surviving to fight another day isn't cowardice.

who said you were going to survive if you knelt?

well the dictator said it, but that's if you trust him

[Conscentia]

You should try it some time. We get out of all kinds of things.

Every has a choice in life. They can be noble like a Stark or as courageous as the Lion of Lannister... or they can become a self-preservationist like Pycelle with mediocre achievements and bad moral repute.

Gaius Baltar from Battlestar Gallactica -he was a profoundly selfish self-preservationist, let's look at what he achieved:
- Survived the nuking of Caprica.
- Became the most important scientist in the fleet.
- Managed to convince the military to just give him a nuclear bomb.
- Cured Rosalind's cancer.
- Became president legitimately.
- Founded New Caprica, which everyone liked until the Cylons got there - which isn't directly his fault.
- Literally saved everyone's life by surrendering to the Cylons.
- Helped the resistance under the Cylon's noses by allowing Felix to leak information.
- Helped even more by convincing the Sixes to convince the others to be less cruel to the humans.
- Inspired Galen to organise workers to improve working conditions.
- Helped many people deal with the morale crushing discovery that Earth had become a wasteland.

[Ifreann]

Being surviving to fight another day isn't cowardice.

who said you were going to survive if you knelt?

well the dictator said it, but that's if you trust him

You can't be armed and sent to fight your new lord's enemies if you're dead.

[Infected Mushroom]

who said you were going to survive if you knelt?

well the dictator said it, but that's if you trust him

You can't be armed and sent to fight your new lord's enemies if you're dead.

Have you ever heard of frontline fodder?

When my cousins and I play Counter Strike the worst player is always assigned the front line role of running in first to draw fire so the better shooters can enter the fray and get the first shot at the enemy. Usually the fodder immediately die.

There's tactical use for unarmed suicide units. They draw out and reveal the enemy positions.

[Conscentia]

Being surviving to fight another day isn't cowardice.

who said you were going to survive if you knelt?
well the dictator said it, but that's if you trust him

You did.

You are told by the dictatorship government that if you, as the leader of your cause, kneel and surrender your people over to the government, your life will be spared and everyone involved in the resistance will be pardoned. However, you and your followers will be expected to fight as front-line soldiers in a foreign war for the benefit of the dictatorship.

It's not about trust. One option results in certain death. The other option might not result in death.
Even an option that provides a 1 in 10 thousand chance of survival is better than one that provides 0 chance of survival.

[Infected Mushroom]

who said you were going to survive if you knelt?
well the dictator said it, but that's if you trust him

You did.

In the OP it says ''you are told'' not... the dictator WILL (as a matter of fact and as a matter of absolute knowledge at the hypothetical point the decision has to be made) let you live.

You don't know if he will keep his word or not. You are trusting him, and you at the very least have to pay for it by kneeling and giving him a propaganda coup.

[Conscentia]

You did.

In the OP it says ''you are told'' not... the dictator WILL (as a matter of fact and as a matter of absolute knowledge at the hypothetical point the decision has to be made) let you live.
You don't know if he will keep his word or not. You are trusting him, and you at the very least have to pay for it by kneeling and giving him a propaganda coup.

You cut out the part where I pointed out that it has nothing to do with trust.

[Ifreann]

You can't be armed and sent to fight your new lord's enemies if you're dead.

Have you ever heard of frontline fodder?

When my cousins and I play Counter Strike the worst player is always assigned the front line role of running in first to draw fire so the better shooters can enter the fray and get the first shot at the enemy. Usually the fodder immediately die.

There's tactical use for unarmed suicide units. They draw out and reveal the enemy positions.

And if that's the task you and your army are assigned to then you'll still be alive to get out of it. But if you are dead then you are dead.

[Infected Mushroom]

Have you ever heard of frontline fodder?

When my cousins and I play Counter Strike the worst player is always assigned the front line role of running in first to draw fire so the better shooters can enter the fray and get the first shot at the enemy. Usually the fodder immediately die.

There's tactical use for unarmed suicide units. They draw out and reveal the enemy positions.

And if that's the task you and your army are assigned to then you'll still be alive to get out of it. But if you are dead then you are dead.

you'll be shot full of arrows as soon as you show your face.

[Camicon]

And if that's the task you and your army are assigned to then you'll still be alive to get out of it. But if you are dead then you are dead.

you'll be shot full of arrows as soon as you show your face.

That wasn't in the OP, nor does that happen in GoT. Stop shifting the goalposts.

[Infected Mushroom]

you'll be shot full of arrows as soon as you show your face.

That wasn't in the OP, nor does that happen in GoT. Stop shifting the goalposts.

the dictator is likely to try and make sure you don't survive the war

I think to expect otherwise is to betray a certain level of naivety about how authoritarian regimes work. You don't think they'll be aware that you plan to double-cross them later?

They'll be using as much as they can, and trying their best to make sure you don't survive. AND no matter what, you've already kneeled.

[Camicon]

That wasn't in the OP, nor does that happen in GoT. Stop shifting the goalposts.

the dictator is likely to try and make sure you don't survive the war

I think to expect otherwise is to betray a certain level of naivety about how authoritarian regimes work. You don't think they'll be aware that you plan to double-cross them later?

They'll be using as much as they can, and trying their best to make sure you don't survive. AND no matter what, you've already kneeled.

The dictator is sparing my life, pardoning me and my army, and arming me to fight a war. Anyone that stupid is going to end up on the sharp end of a sword sooner rather than later. Probably one of the swords that he gave to the rebels he pardoned and armed, who had been leading a violent overthrow of his regime.

[Infected Mushroom]

the dictator is likely to try and make sure you don't survive the war

I think to expect otherwise is to betray a certain level of naivety about how authoritarian regimes work. You don't think they'll be aware that you plan to double-cross them later?

They'll be using as much as they can, and trying their best to make sure you don't survive. AND no matter what, you've already kneeled.

The dictator is sparing my life, pardoning me and my army, and arming me to fight a war. Anyone that stupid is going to end up on the sharp end of a sword sooner rather than later. Probably one of the swords that he gave to the rebels he pardoned and armed, who had been leading a violent overthrow of his regime.

In the OP I tell you what the dictator SAYS to you as you are about to be executed.

I never told you whether or not he will go through with his word or whether or not he will ''keep his promise'' in some twisted way to make sure you get killed while maximising his political gain and your humiliation.

I'm surprised at the large number of posters who just go... ''Hahaha. I'm smarter than the Dictator. I'll just say I ''kneel'' and then betray him later. I'm so Smart.''

No where in the OP did I say that the Dictatorship was stupid. I don't know how people get there and just assume it. Read every word in the OP... very VERY carefully.

I only tell you what the dictator has said to you. Never what he will actually do. The dictator makes a representation to you, it's up to you to interpret his intentions.

I consider it foolhardy to think that you can outsmart him.

[Finland SSR]

I feel like Kefka did the best he could in the OP to make us look like the good guys. It makes it obvious why so many people don't kneel. After all, stereotypical good guys never kneel.

If we were told that we were fascist, anarchist or communist rebels in a free and democratic environment, the results would be far more different, would they?

[Harelia]

Harelia does not kneel. Capture demands suicide. Only the weak kneel. The strong die with honor.

[Ifreann]

And if that's the task you and your army are assigned to then you'll still be alive to get out of it. But if you are dead then you are dead.

you'll be shot full of arrows as soon as you show your face.

Not if you surrender.

[Camicon]

The dictator is sparing my life, pardoning me and my army, and arming me to fight a war. Anyone that stupid is going to end up on the sharp end of a sword sooner rather than later. Probably one of the swords that he gave to the rebels he pardoned and armed, who had been leading a violent overthrow of his regime.

In the OP I tell you what the dictator SAYS to you as you are about to be executed.

I never told you whether or not he will go through with his word or whether or not he will ''keep his promise'' in some twisted way to make sure you get killed while maximising his political gain and your humiliation.

I'm surprised at the large number of posters who just go... ''Hahaha. I'm smarter than the Dictator. I'll just say I ''kneel'' and then betray him later. I'm so Smart.''

No where in the OP did I say that the Dictatorship was stupid. I don't know how people get there and just assume it. Read every word in the OP... very VERY carefully.

I only tell you what the dictator has said to you. Never what he will actually do. The dictator makes a representation to you, it's up to you to interpret his intentions.

I consider it foolhardy to think that you can outsmart him.

So your OP should actually read:

"Do you refuse the dictator's offer, and get executed, or do you accept the dictator's offer, and get executed."

Stop being so disingenuous. There is nothing "honourable" about twisting words to try and make people look foolish. That's the sort of thing Petyr Baelish would do. Eddard Stark would never try to humiliate someone, he would never try to deceive people.

I guess what I'm saying is, fuck off with your bullshit.

[The Imperial Republica]

Anyone can say they would rather die while reclining comfortably on a sofa at home. Takes a strong character to stand by their words while they're being flayed. As for me, I need more info. Has my revolution lost? Or is it still going even though I've been captured. If it's still going strong, sure I'd die for it to give them a chance. If we've lost though, then we kneel. Better to live on your knees so that one day you might rise again than to die like a beaten dog.