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by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:35 pm
by Morr » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:44 pm
by Grave_n_idle » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:46 pm
Morr wrote:Menassa wrote:That doesn't seem very logical to say. I mean let's check out psalm 119, the longest chapter in the Bible. The Psalmist doesn't actually mention anything about Salvation through Christ but rather the benefits of the Law.
You can tout your believe that the righteous of the Old Testament had faith in Christ, but there is simply no logical evidence to support that fact.
Christ was the fulfillment of Law. Christ is God's Word made flesh.
by Salus Maior » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:46 pm
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:48 pm
Morr wrote:Menassa wrote:Right, so as you, who does believe that the Law needed fulfilling. Can you show me that the Law needed fulfilling? Can you prove the claim from Scripture that "Christ fulfilled the Law?"
Formally? The term "Law" was applied to include more than simply the specific code of conduct, as I'm sure you know, it's a word for the Pentateuch, and was sometimes applied in broader terms to include even all of what you'd call the Tanakh today. So "fulling the law" means fulfilling prophecies in the least of terms.
Morr wrote:Is the Law, the code of conduct, the same under the post-Messiah Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:33?
Morr wrote: I don't see why you would believe that, God has made several covenants and they didn't have the same rules.
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:51 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:Morr wrote:Christ was the fulfillment of Law. Christ is God's Word made flesh.
And Mohammed updated the Greek scripture, and brought the completion of the Bible.
I mean - surely you believe that, too - that's how this works, right? You just get to come in and claim that you're completing another already-arguably-complete religion?
No?
Salus Maior wrote:Menassa wrote:Right, so as you, who does believe that the Law needed fulfilling. Can you show me that the Law needed fulfilling? Can you prove the claim from Scripture that "Christ fulfilled the Law?"
I don't think there's anything that anyone here can tell that would convince you, but I'll tell you what Christians mean by saying that.
The purpose of the Law as given to Moses was to bring the people closer to God. According to Christianity, Christ fulfilled that purpose by dying on the cross as a sacrifice for humanity's sin, bridging the gap between humanity and God. Hence "fulfilling the Law".
by Gim » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:53 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Menassa wrote:Right, so as you, who does believe that the Law needed fulfilling. Can you show me that the Law needed fulfilling? Can you prove the claim from Scripture that "Christ fulfilled the Law?"
I don't think there's anything that anyone here can tell that would convince you, but I'll tell you what Christians mean by saying that.
The purpose of the Law as given to Moses was to bring the people closer to God. According to Christianity, Christ fulfilled that purpose by dying on the cross as a sacrifice for humanity's sin, bridging the gap between humanity and God. Hence "fulfilling the Law".
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:54 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Menassa wrote:Right, so as you, who does believe that the Law needed fulfilling. Can you show me that the Law needed fulfilling? Can you prove the claim from Scripture that "Christ fulfilled the Law?"
I don't think there's anything that anyone here can tell that would convince you, [...]
by Morr » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:55 pm
Menassa wrote:Which prophecies would those be?
Morr wrote:You see if you look at the whole chapter of Jeremiah and at the Hebrew it is clearly obvious that the 'New Covenant' of Christianity doesn't quite add up. Here's why:
1 The verse talks about the House of Judah and House of Israel. When Jesus roamed the earth, the house of Israel was still lost.
2 The prefix before the phrase "and in that time" implies that the next statement being said is being said about the first phrase.
3 The verse says that "they will all know the lord, from least to greatest" when Jesus roamed the earth there were many who did not know the Lord. Under Christianity, there are many still who do not know the Lord.
Morr wrote: I do not understand your question, and youre statement.
by Grave_n_idle » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:59 pm
Morr wrote:1. Christ is a restoration of the House of Israel, from a Christian perspective.
2. Yes, it wasn't the time the Prophecy was made, it was something coming.
3. All the people of Israel knew the Lord, and they are logically the "they" referred to in the next verse.
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:03 pm
Morr wrote:Your points are well made.
1. Christ is a restoration of the House of Israel, from a Christian perspective.
2. Yes, it wasn't the time the Prophecy was made, it was something coming.
3. All the people of Israel knew the Lord, and they are logically the "they" referred to in the next verse.
Morr wrote:Then it's of no consequence.
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:04 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:Morr wrote:1. Christ is a restoration of the House of Israel, from a Christian perspective.
2. Yes, it wasn't the time the Prophecy was made, it was something coming.
3. All the people of Israel knew the Lord, and they are logically the "they" referred to in the next verse.
You don't see a problem with allowing the people claiming to 'fulfil' prophecies to explain what those prophecies must have meant?
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:04 pm
by Efraim-Judah » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:06 pm
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:09 pm
by Efraim-Judah » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:12 pm
by Efraim-Judah » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:13 pm
by Salus Maior » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:15 pm
by Menassa » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:16 pm
by Efraim-Judah » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:16 pm
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