IQ Based Immigration

[Wanderjar]

There is more to it then that. People from different cultures for instance group things differently then those within the US. Other such cultural differences could very easily affect the outcome.

On an interesting note, the average IQ of African immigrants to the US is higher than the one of African Americans, simply because the former tend to be highly educated. IIRC, Nigerian-Americans are one of the most educated groups in the US in general.

That is true. Nigeria does tend to produce exceptional doctors and engineers, for example. And more in line with my usual interest, they have a surprisingly top tier military academy as well

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Immigration, to many is a two edged sword. It can be a good thing, and a bad thing. You can have the best, and the worst of the world immigrating, at least that is the current immigration system in many nations.

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country, but too much immigration can be quite detrimental to many nations, as if the immigrants are all welfare users, and consume more than they give, then they are a strain on society.

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ? Some think it is genetic, and in this case, we will have smarter people in the future, but others think that it is based off the education and experiences of the person, but if that person has a high IQ under this circumstance, then they would be highly educated and would therefore be beneficial to the workforce and (very likely) have highly educated children, which is beneficial to a nation.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

Is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Because a high IQ doesn't imply anything except a talent for IQ tests, and a talent for IQ tests is not, in and of itself, beneficial in any field of human endeavour.

A very standard party-line response for some parties, but not precisely empirically accurate. IQ, if known, is a very powerful predictor of many things other than IQ tests. It is only by controlling for almost every other available factor (education, high school GPA, parents' education, parents' income, etc) that you can make it look like it's only predicting IQ tests; absent those measures, or with easily-gamed measures of those, the IQ test becomes a powerful predictive tool.

The only thing an IQ test shows is that you are a good test-maker.

Seriously, if you are a good test maker it doesn't matter what sort of intelligence you actually have. I am an excellent test maker yet I am of average intelligence, or at least I don't pretend I am superior to everyone else (even if I am an asshole).

[Ifreann]

Against. It would be discriminatory.
Plus IQ tests are stupid. It just means you are good at the tests, not that you are smart.

since a country can only accommodate a limited number of immigrants, it has to be merit-based somehow

IQ doesn't demonstrate merit, except at taking IQ tests.

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A dance contest would be a better method.

Maybe a banjo duel.

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Immigration, to many is a two edged sword. It can be a good thing, and a bad thing. You can have the best, and the worst of the world immigrating, at least that is the current immigration system in many nations.

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country, but too much immigration can be quite detrimental to many nations, as if the immigrants are all welfare users, and consume more than they give, then they are a strain on society.

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ? Some think it is genetic, and in this case, we will have smarter people in the future, but others think that it is based off the education and experiences of the person, but if that person has a high IQ under this circumstance, then they would be highly educated and would therefore be beneficial to the workforce and (very likely) have highly educated children, which is beneficial to a nation.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

That idea is bonkers.

Some people think it's bonkers. Some people think it's free.

[Chaunceys]

There are multiple factors that can cause someone to do bad on the IQ test, maybe they just had a bad day and did bad on the test. Many factors can change what you get.

well you can always take multiple tests in multiple sittings

Yes that is true but in this instance we're talking about an IQ test which costs a decent amount of money to take. People can't just keep forking money over to do these tests in different settings.

[Sensual Boy by Klaus]

America is supposed to be a nation were everyone no matter who you are have an equal chance to make it. We shouldn't judge immigrants based on IQ that in my opinion would be some sort of discrimination.

No it isn't. That idea was perpetuated in the mid-20th century.

[Zottistan]

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ?

Because a high IQ doesn't imply anything except a talent for IQ tests, and a talent for IQ tests is not, in and of itself, beneficial in any field of human endeavour.

Except for IQ tests.

[Chaunceys]

America is supposed to be a nation were everyone no matter who you are have an equal chance to make it. We shouldn't judge immigrants based on IQ that in my opinion would be some sort of discrimination.

No it isn't. That idea was perpetuated in the mid-20th century.

So only allow people who can get a high/average mark on the IQ test in a country but any other immigrant is out of luck? Yea sounds fair to me. Plus imagine how much this would cost. I am sure it would cost money for them to even take the IQ test to even be considered to be allowed in the US and we'd also need professionals to score each and everyone single one of those tests.That also brings up the question, what about the immigrants that wouldn't have the money to take the test?

[Nazi Flower Power]

Immigration, to many is a two edged sword. It can be a good thing, and a bad thing. You can have the best, and the worst of the world immigrating, at least that is the current immigration system in many nations.

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country, but too much immigration can be quite detrimental to many nations, as if the immigrants are all welfare users, and consume more than they give, then they are a strain on society.

Most countries have a large enough population that genetic diversity would not be an issue.

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ? Some think it is genetic, and in this case, we will have smarter people in the future, but others think that it is based off the education and experiences of the person, but if that person has a high IQ under this circumstance, then they would be highly educated and would therefore be beneficial to the workforce and (very likely) have highly educated children, which is beneficial to a nation.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

How about no. If you want educated immigrants, just ask them about their educational background and decide who to let in on that basis.

[American California]

No it isn't. That idea was perpetuated in the mid-20th century.

So only allow people who can get a high/average mark on the IQ test in a country but any other immigrant is out of luck? Yea sounds fair to me. Plus imagine how much this would cost. I am sure it would cost money for them to even take the IQ test to even be considered to be allowed in the US and we'd also need professionals to score each and everyone single one of those tests.That also brings up the question, what about the immigrants that wouldn't have the money to take the test?

If immigration should be "fair" to anybody, it should be to the native population. Immigrants have no "right" to live in other nations, unless the native population consents to their presence.

And yes, immigration enforcement will be costly, because it is a matter of national security, cultural cohesion, and economic growth. These aren't things you want to half-ass.

As for the immigrants that don't have enough money, so what?

[Nazi Flower Power]

IQ measures this sort of abstract intelligence and says nothing about success in life. So no.

There is a correlation between IQ and economic success. They are not the same thing, but they are vaguely related.

[Zottistan]

IQ measures this sort of abstract intelligence and says nothing about success in life. So no.

There is a correlation between IQ and economic success. They are not the same thing, but they are vaguely related.

There's a correlation between education level and IQ and a correlation between economic status and education.

[Nazi Flower Power]

There is a correlation between IQ and economic success. They are not the same thing, but they are vaguely related.

There's a correlation between education level and IQ and a correlation between economic status and education.

OK. IQ still says something about a person's chances of economic success.

[Imperialpowersofkorea]

All I know is we need to stop Bangladeshi immigration regardless of IQ

[Nazi Flower Power]

All I know is we need to stop Bangladeshi immigration regardless of IQ

Why?

[Imperialpowersofkorea]

All I know is we need to stop Bangladeshi immigration regardless of IQ

Why?

They cause communal strife and many of them have islamist origins and have been members of the pakistani army or children of such kind of


Note : This comment does not indicate label any one particular group as islamist or pakistani but merely states that there are high amounts of these elements within that population

[Zottistan]

There's a correlation between education level and IQ and a correlation between economic status and education.

OK. IQ still says something about a person's chances of economic success.

It's more that economically successful people are more likely to have high IQs than the other way around. Success and education are the cause, not the effect.

[Chaunceys]

So only allow people who can get a high/average mark on the IQ test in a country but any other immigrant is out of luck? Yea sounds fair to me. Plus imagine how much this would cost. I am sure it would cost money for them to even take the IQ test to even be considered to be allowed in the US and we'd also need professionals to score each and everyone single one of those tests.That also brings up the question, what about the immigrants that wouldn't have the money to take the test?

If immigration should be "fair" to anybody, it should be to the native population. Immigrants have no "right" to live in other nations, unless the native population consents to their presence.

And yes, immigration enforcement will be costly, because it is a matter of national security, cultural cohesion, and economic growth. These aren't things you want to half-ass.

As for the immigrants that don't have enough money, so what?

So what? Most immigrants come to America for a better life, why should they be opt out of coming to the US just because of them not having money. Plenty of smart people don't have money.

[Atlanticatia]

Ummmm. what makes an IQ test superior to having skilled immigration? It seems to make far more sense to preference immigrants with bachelors' degrees for example than having everyone sit an IQ test.

[Nazi Flower Power]

OK. IQ still says something about a person's chances of economic success.

It's more that economically successful people are more likely to have high IQs than the other way around. Success and education are the cause, not the effect.

If you know a person's IQ, you can use it to predict their economic success. It's irrelevant whether it is the cause or not. It still tells you something.

And there really isn't any proof that economic success causes higher IQs. There are many possible explanations for the correlation, and it's difficult to figure out what causes what. For example, another possible explanation is that they are both effects of good education. Whatever the causal relationships are, it is still clear that IQ and economic success are related in some way -- which is the only claim I made.

[Zottistan]

It's more that economically successful people are more likely to have high IQs than the other way around. Success and education are the cause, not the effect.

If you know a person's IQ, you can use it to predict their economic success. It's irrelevant whether it is the cause or not. It still tells you something.

If it's economic success you're looking for, why not cut out the middle man and openly seek out economically successful people?

And there really isn't any proof that economic success causes higher IQs. There are many possible explanations for the correlation, and it's difficult to figure out what causes what. For example, another possible explanation is that they are both effects of good education.

Good education generally being an effect of higher economic status.

Whatever the causal relationships are, it is still clear that IQ and economic success are related in some way -- which is the only claim I made.

Fair enough.

[Kaztropol]

Why?

They cause communal strife and many of them have islamist origins and have been members of the pakistani army or children of such kind of people

Wow, that's a bit racist.

[Imperialpowersofkorea]

They cause communal strife and many of them have islamist origins and have been members of the pakistani army or children of such kind of people

Wow, that's a bit racist.

No, There is lot of killing of hindus in Bangladesh also especially by these elements, they cross the border and we cannot find them

Note : This comment does not indicate label any one particular group as islamist or pakistani but merely states that there are high amounts of these elements within that population

[Romalae]

IQ test? We're really suggesting that we go back to those days?

Why don't we just measure all the newly-arrived immigrants' noses and determine the characteristics of their facial skeletons too?

[Benuty]

IQ test? We're really suggesting that we go back to those days?

Why don't we just measure all the newly-arrived immigrants' noses and determine the characteristics of their facial skeletons too?

Well we could always racially segregate our military again by conveniently rigging test scores against African-Americans like we did in WWI.