Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Rhodevus]

Pro-choice for sure. Women are the only ones who can decide whether or not they want to keep a kid. Men have no choice in the matter. People own their own bodies.

[Dragomerian Islands]

This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

Up until fairly recently (in a historical context) abortion has been strictly condemned and restricted. Until the 1960's, abortion was (unless I'm mistaken) universally illegal. Within the past several decades, at least half of all countries in the world allow it in some form. Do you agree or disagree with a pregnant woman's (and in very rare, unique cases, a pregnant man's) right to have an abortion should they chose to do so? Do you think that it should be strictly denied, or fully permitted, or perhaps even permitted but only in special circumstances?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

Abortion is MURDER; however, it can be justified in cases of bodily harm to the mother or when the act of conception was forced.

[Sanctissima]

True, but isn't the alternative killing the unborn child?

Personally, I think that death overrides suffering, thereby overshadowing any possibility of a pro-choice person also being considered pro-life.

The alternative is removing the fetus, which results in the death of said fetus. I disagree, as I hold the woman is having more importance then the possibility the fetus will be born.

But with modern technology (although I suppose circumstances would be different in non-developed countries), a fetus' successful birth is almost a guarantee. Thus, isn't it better for the pregnant individual to endure several months of discomfort, rather than killing the unborn child? I think it's the lesser of two evils.

[MERIZoC]

…..Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that argument allow parents to kill their kids?

Kids can express opinions. When I said it was like euthanasia, I meant that the incapacitated patient has decisions made for them because they can't think for themselves. But yes, if a kid is so severely injured that they are only technically alive, and euthanasia is legal, the parents can have the kid killed.

Ah. The "unable to make decisions" part wasn't quite clear.

[Aquesta]

There's adoption you know my birth mother didn't want me but she was a decent human and instead of killing me she birthed me and put me up for adoption. I get to live and she gets to continue her life like normal best case scenario.

That's nice. Good to know any mother who aborts their fetus isn't a "decent human".

And adoption? Really? "Yeah, let's just burden the adoption system instead of aborting the child."

Yea lets just kill them off and while we are at it lets go kill all the sick and dying that will help out the system what a great plan sir.

[Zottistan]

Abortions should be done very early in pregnancy

Before the fetus can fight back.

I'm pro-life or anti-abortion, though I disgress in some cases, (rape, incest, danger to the mother). But once you eliminate these, I see no reason why a baby shouldn't be born, considering that roughly 87% of abortions come from stupidly not using contraception, or just poor planning.

If you make such mistakes, you should have to live with them.

The most important thing to bear in mind when it comes to abortion is that outlawing it isn't going to stop it from happening. It's just going to make it so that, rather than being done by a trained doctor in a safe environment, it's done by a shady guy in some back alley. And that's how people get killed.

I'm dubious as to how ethical abortion is. But keeping it legal and accessible is much better than forcing people to choose between risking their life breaking the law and potentially ruining their life having an unwanted child.

[Neutraligon]

Adoption does not make up for the fact that she must carry you for 9 months. Her choice to continue to the pregnancy, not carrying the pregnancy does not mean she is an ass.

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

What you want to force the woman into virtual slavery, making her into nothing more then a human incubator, what the fuck is wrong with your morals. We all place value on certain people differently, I place a higher value on the woman and her right not to be forced to use her body against her will then on the possibility that the fetus will be born.

[District XIV]

Adoption does not make up for the fact that she must carry you for 9 months. Her choice to continue to the pregnancy, not carrying the pregnancy does not mean she is an ass.

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

And also the life the mother has after she births a child she may not have wanted.

Morals are irrelevant, for fuck's sake. Everyone has different morals, like it or not.

[Sanctissima]

Abortions should be done very early in pregnancy

Before the fetus can fight back.

I'm pro-life or anti-abortion, though I disgress in some cases, (rape, incest, danger to the mother). But once you eliminate these, I see no reason why a baby shouldn't be born, considering that roughly 87% of abortions come from stupidly not using contraception, or just poor planning.

If you make such mistakes, you should have to live with them.

The most important thing to bear in mind when it comes to abortion is that outlawing it isn't going to stop it from happening. It's just going to make it so that, rather than being done by a trained doctor in a safe environment, it's done by a shady guy in some back alley. And that's how people get killed.

I'm dubious as to how ethical abortion is. But keeping it legal and accessible is much better than forcing people to choose between risking their life breaking the law and potentially ruining their life having an unwanted child.

That kind of follows the "well, if we outlaw drugs, people are just going to do them anyway" mentality. That rarely works as intended.

[Sebastianbourg]

I don't support it after 12-16 weeks.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

And also the life the mother has after she births a child she may not have wanted.

Morals are irrelevant, for fuck's sake. Everyone has different morals, like it or not.

She could just give away the child.

But, you know most peoples logic is: "kill the kid, the 9 months that the mother has to go through is much more relevant anyways"

[District XIV]

That's nice. Good to know any mother who aborts their fetus isn't a "decent human".

And adoption? Really? "Yeah, let's just burden the adoption system instead of aborting the child."

Yea lets just kill them off and while we are at it lets go kill all the sick and dying that will help out the system what a great plan sir.

Wow, nice strawman.

I'm really not interested in arguing your bullshit if you're going to pin me as some genocidal maniac who wants to kill off most of the population in the name of relieving the system. More people to add to my foes list, I guess. *shrug*

My point was this: Yes, the mother can chose adoption if she pleases because it's her damn choice, but if she doesn't want a child and wants to abort it, she can.

[Zottistan]

Before the fetus can fight back.


The most important thing to bear in mind when it comes to abortion is that outlawing it isn't going to stop it from happening. It's just going to make it so that, rather than being done by a trained doctor in a safe environment, it's done by a shady guy in some back alley. And that's how people get killed.

I'm dubious as to how ethical abortion is. But keeping it legal and accessible is much better than forcing people to choose between risking their life breaking the law and potentially ruining their life having an unwanted child.

That kind of follows the "well, if we outlaw drugs, people are just going to do them anyway" mentality. That rarely works as intended.

It's the same mentality, at it works for drugs too. Hard to regulate an illegal industry.

[Aquesta]

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

And also the life the mother has after she births a child she may not have wanted.

Morals are irrelevant, for fuck's sake. Everyone has different morals, like it or not.

Wow the woman who didn't want the child will have to put it up for adoption wow geez lots of hardship there.

[Sanctissima]

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

What you want to force the woman into virtual slavery, making her into nothing more then a human incubator, what the fuck is wrong with your morals. We all place value on certain people differently, I place a higher value on the woman and her right not to be forced to use her body against her will then on the possibility that the fetus will be born.

Well, that's a rather, umm, bleak view of parenthood.

But continuing with that line of thought, assuming the woman had sex voluntarily, she knew that pregnancy could be a result. Does she owe no responsibility the the unborn child whatsoever?

[Zottistan]

And also the life the mother has after she births a child she may not have wanted.

Morals are irrelevant, for fuck's sake. Everyone has different morals, like it or not.

She could just give away the child.

But, you know most peoples logic is: "kill the kid, the 9 months that the mother has to go through is much more relevant anyways"

The adoption system in the US is already far too overcrowded.

[Killdash]

I'm pro-life or anti-abortion, though I disgress in some cases, (rape, incest, danger to the mother). But once you eliminate these, I see no reason why a baby shouldn't be born, considering that roughly 87% of abortions come from stupidly not using contraception, or just poor planning.

If you make such mistakes, you should have to live with them.

Using a child as a consequence? When the mother made a mistake? That hardly seems fair for the child.

So kill the child for the mothers mistake? No, we don't what that child will become. It's better to give him a shot at life, rather than make the choice for him/her.

[Neutraligon]

The alternative is removing the fetus, which results in the death of said fetus. I disagree, as I hold the woman is having more importance then the possibility the fetus will be born.

But with modern technology (although I suppose circumstances would be different in non-developed countries), a fetus' successful birth is almost a guarantee. Thus, isn't it better for the pregnant individual to endure several months of discomfort, rather than killing the unborn child? I think it's the lesser of two evils.

Actually no it isn't, miscarriage is a relatively common thing before the woman even knows she is pregnant. I have heard numbers as high as 1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. No it isn't. You are in essence giving fetuses rights no born human is given. You are forcing her against her will to carry to term something that always medically affects her body, as well as normally causes a rather large financial and time based burden.

[Geilinor]

The alternative is removing the fetus, which results in the death of said fetus. I disagree, as I hold the woman is having more importance then the possibility the fetus will be born.

But with modern technology (although I suppose circumstances would be different in non-developed countries), a fetus' successful birth is almost a guarantee. Thus, isn't it better for the pregnant individual to endure several months of discomfort, rather than killing the unborn child? I think it's the lesser of two evils.

The miscarriage rate is 10 to 15% with modern care.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

What the comfort of a woman for 9 months is worth more than a human life? What the fuck is up with your morals?

What you want to force the woman into virtual slavery, making her into nothing more then a human incubator, what the fuck is wrong with your morals. We all place value on certain people differently, I place a higher value on the woman and her right not to be forced to use her body against her will then on the possibility that the fetus will be born.

Put them up for adoption.

Also, the whole thing about the 'human incubator'-- that's part of nature.

[Sanctissima]

That kind of follows the "well, if we outlaw drugs, people are just going to do them anyway" mentality. That rarely works as intended.

It's the same mentality, at it works for drugs too. Hard to regulate an illegal industry.

Then isn't that just giving up?

"Well, if we add airport security, terrorists will just try to sneak onboard airplanes anyway".

"Well, if we keep denying Kim Jong-un as supreme leader of the world, he'll just keep pestering us anyway".

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

She could just give away the child.

But, you know most peoples logic is: "kill the kid, the 9 months that the mother has to go through is much more relevant anyways"

The adoption system in the US is already far too overcrowded.

So because it's too overcrowded we can just kill fetuses for no reason at all?

[Neutraligon]

And also the life the mother has after she births a child she may not have wanted.

Morals are irrelevant, for fuck's sake. Everyone has different morals, like it or not.

Wow the woman who didn't want the child will have to put it up for adoption wow geez lots of hardship there.

Pregnancy is hard, it is long, it is a financial, time and medical burden the woman might not be able to deal with, and you are giving rights to fetuses that no born human has. Most pregnancies have medical affects long after the pregnancy.

[Dragomerian Islands]

This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

Up until fairly recently (in a historical context) abortion has been strictly condemned and restricted. Until the 1960's, abortion was (unless I'm mistaken) universally illegal. Within the past several decades, at least half of all countries in the world allow it in some form. Do you agree or disagree with a pregnant woman's (and in very rare, unique cases, a pregnant man's) right to have an abortion should they chose to do so? Do you think that it should be strictly denied, or fully permitted, or perhaps even permitted but only in special circumstances?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

Abortion is MURDER; however, it can be justified in cases of bodily harm to the mother or when the act of conception was forced.

Why should a unborn child suffer death just because he or she was not wanted. In my opinion, the person to abort the baby should be guilty of man-slaughter.

[Sanctissima]

But with modern technology (although I suppose circumstances would be different in non-developed countries), a fetus' successful birth is almost a guarantee. Thus, isn't it better for the pregnant individual to endure several months of discomfort, rather than killing the unborn child? I think it's the lesser of two evils.

The miscarriage rate is 10 to 15% with modern care.

Considering what it's been in the past, that's a fairly good percentage.