Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Neutraligon]

Ah, so you admit prevention is important then.

Why is it that abortion cannot be used as a preventative measure the same as installing a lightning rod so your house can be grounded?

Because you can predict and adequately respond in time to a life-threatening complication. Lightning doesn't give you much time to react.

You are aware that many complications can occur very quickly, yes?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Stupid fixes itself, that's my view of society.

Thankfully, you're not into policy making.

One must wonder the cognitive dissonance to believe the things that some people believe. Thankfully society is not based upon Social Darwinism otherwise we'd be fucked.

[Luminesa]

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

No a fetus is in the process of becoming a baby. Actually there are statistics that most unborn do not make it to being a baby, I have heard statistics as high as 1/3 of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Just so you know the typical failure rate of condoms is around 18%
http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/u ... ption.htm#

If you wanna say zygote becomes embryo becomes fetus becomes baby, then yeah, it's becoming a baby. But it's still human.

Huh! I've never heard of condom failure being that high. Interesting. I mean, I knew they failed pretty often, but not that often...I always thought it was more like 6%.

You learn something new every day!

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

I'm saying that irresponsibility is not just cause to abort a fetus.

It is also not a reason to prevent abortions.

It's a reason to prevent being irresponsible in the first place, because half the births in the U.S. are unintended. So, we can lower that first, preferably to under 10% with better sex education in schools. Then, I might rethink my stance on abortion.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

1. Most pregnancies don't end in miscarriage or abortion.
2. I'm arguing against the "right" to get an abortion
so, my point still stands

1: Why should I carry about what could happen in most pregnancies.
2: I haven't seen you make a single valid point, you've merely asserted your position, to which I can only respond by asserting my own position and current law.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Ah, so you admit prevention is important then.

Why is it that abortion cannot be used as a preventative measure the same as installing a lightning rod so your house can be grounded?

Because you can predict and adequately respond in time to a life-threatening complication. Lightning doesn't give you much time to react.

You cannot at times. Whatever medical sitcom you've been watching has been lying to you.

[Edgy Opinions]

Stupid fixes itself, that's my view of society.

That's what they said while everyone was feasting on Cytotec contraband.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

It's a reason to prevent being irresponsible in the first place, because half the births in the U.S. are unintended. So, we can lower that first, preferably to under 10% with better sex education in schools. Then, I might rethink my stance on abortion.

Do you know who actually opposes comprehensive sex education in schools?

Generally the same people who oppose the right to have an abortion.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Thankfully, you're not into policy making.

One must wonder the cognitive dissonance to believe the things that some people believe. Thankfully society is not based upon Social Darwinism otherwise we'd be fucked.

For the longest time it was based on social darwinism, and, oh, we've been fucked ever since that changed.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

It's a reason to prevent being irresponsible in the first place, because half the births in the U.S. are unintended. So, we can lower that first, preferably to under 10% with better sex education in schools. Then, I might rethink my stance on abortion.

Do you know who actually opposes comprehensive sex education in schools?

Generally the same people who oppose the right to have an abortion.

Well, that's stupid, because better sex education means less people who want an abortion, so that's the most effective way to combat it without illegalizing it.

[Luminesa]

I can remove you, but I'm not going to kill you. I'll just take a crowbar and some oil and pry you off.

If we were comparing this to abortion, then abortion in this case would be like taking out a pistol and shooting you in the head for attaching yourself to me. Which would be inhumane and unreasonable, when, again, I can just pry you off and go along my merry way. Meanwhile, you are still living and capable of going on with your life.

You didn't answer.

You're adding things that have nothing to do with the scenario or the question.

Which is it: yes or no?

I have a right to remove you. So yes. At the same time, though, I'm saying this is a really weird comparison which doesn't make a whole ton of sense, unless the only way I can get you off is by killing you. Which, as I said to Mav, would imply that you have lost all capability for independent function and are now a dead weight dragging yourself on me. Which a fetus is not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

One must wonder the cognitive dissonance to believe the things that some people believe. Thankfully society is not based upon Social Darwinism otherwise we'd be fucked.

For the longest time it was based on social darwinism, and, oh, we've been fucked ever since that changed.

Of course, if you consider that the 17th century was MUCH better than the 20th century.

Also, proof that social darwinism was the way society was structured?

[Neutraligon]

No a fetus is in the process of becoming a baby. Actually there are statistics that most unborn do not make it to being a baby, I have heard statistics as high as 1/3 of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Just so you know the typical failure rate of condoms is around 18%
http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/u ... ption.htm#

If you wanna say zygote becomes embryo becomes fetus becomes baby, then yeah, it's becoming a baby. But it's still human.

Huh! I've never heard of condom failure being that high. Interesting. I mean, I knew they failed pretty often, but not that often...I always thought it was more like 6%.

You learn something new every day!

The pill is around 9% more effective forms are much more expensive. There was actually a study where women where allowed to choose any form of contraception and given it for free. Those that chose ones like IUDs where far less likely to have unwanted pregnancies.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Because you can predict and adequately respond in time to a life-threatening complication. Lightning doesn't give you much time to react.

You cannot at times. Whatever medical sitcom you've been watching has been lying to you.

I might not be able to predict whether or not I will die in a car accident, should I just cover myself in bubble wrap and never leave my house for the rest of my life?

[Edgy Opinions]

For the longest time it was based on social darwinism

I can feel the bovine excrement smell your posts spread from one continent away.

[Neutraligon]

You didn't answer.

You're adding things that have nothing to do with the scenario or the question.

Which is it: yes or no?

I have a right to remove you. So yes. At the same time, though, I'm saying this is a really weird comparison which doesn't make a whole ton of sense, unless the only way I can get you off is by killing you. Which, as I said to Mav, would imply that you have lost all capability for independent function and are now a dead weight dragging yourself on me. Which a fetus is not.

Actually, that is exactly what a fetus is if unwanted.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

If you wanna say zygote becomes embryo becomes fetus becomes baby, then yeah, it's becoming a baby. But it's still human.

Huh! I've never heard of condom failure being that high. Interesting. I mean, I knew they failed pretty often, but not that often...I always thought it was more like 6%.

You learn something new every day!

The pill is around 9% more effective forms are much more expensive. There was actually a study where women where allowed to choose any form of contraception and given it for free. Those that chose ones like IUDs where far less likely to have unwanted pregnancies.

Well, as painful as this is to say, I'd rather have subsidized contraceptives than abortion.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

For the longest time it was based on social darwinism

I can feel the bovine excrement smell your posts spread from one continent away.

Well, after all, America exists because of social-darwinistic beliefs.

[Neutraligon]

It is also not a reason to prevent abortions.

It's a reason to prevent being irresponsible in the first place, because half the births in the U.S. are unintended. So, we can lower that first, preferably to under 10% with better sex education in schools. Then, I might rethink my stance on abortion.

Yes decreasing abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancies is of course a better option, but that does not mean abortion should be illegal.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

For the longest time it was based on social darwinism, and, oh, we've been fucked ever since that changed.

Of course, if you consider that the 17th century was MUCH better than the 20th century.

Also, proof that social darwinism was the way society was structured?

Slavery, forced removal of the native Americans, the scramble for Africa, Apartheid, etc.
The end justifies the means, and in this case, the end was the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth.

[Distruzio]

Nominally pro-choice. Lean pro-life more and more, however.
When I began dating with the express intention of finding someone to marry I opted to avoid anyone that was pro-choice on the subject.

Why?

What has made you feel more convinced that forced pregnancies are a good idea?

Forced pregnancy or responsible planning? I prefer the latter.

Why would you not be interested in anyone who felt that it was wrong to force a woman to remain pregnant against her wishes?

Because of morality. It the more moral choice to opt for a pro-life stance when the alternative is to forgo responsibility. I view sex as desirable as the next hornball. I just refrain from engaging in the activity without taking certain precautions should pregnancy be undesirable (by either party). Pregnancy is not merely a choice - it's an obligation. I'm fine with contraceptives. I'm not fine with abortion.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

It's a reason to prevent being irresponsible in the first place, because half the births in the U.S. are unintended. So, we can lower that first, preferably to under 10% with better sex education in schools. Then, I might rethink my stance on abortion.

Yes decreasing abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancies is of course a better option, but that does not mean abortion should be illegal.

And I said I would be willing to rethink my stance on abortion if that unwanted pregnancy rate goes from almost 50% to under 10%.

[Edgy Opinions]

Well, as painful as this is to say, I'd rather have subsidized contraceptives than abortion.

Well, we have free contraceptive (primarily, or solely, condoms, I'm not sure) in Brazil and our birth rates are significantly lower than the USA. That doesn't prevent abortion from being extremely prevalent. Middle and upper class women aren't the ones who die from that, though.

[Neutraligon]

The pill is around 9% more effective forms are much more expensive. There was actually a study where women where allowed to choose any form of contraception and given it for free. Those that chose ones like IUDs where far less likely to have unwanted pregnancies.

Well, as painful as this is to say, I'd rather have subsidized contraceptives than abortion.

So would I. But again, most people who are against abortion are also against those programs that would subsidize contraceptives.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You cannot at times. Whatever medical sitcom you've been watching has been lying to you.

I might not be able to predict whether or not I will die in a car accident, should I just cover myself in bubble wrap and never leave my house for the rest of my life?

No, but that's also why handbooks suggest to drive defensively, not aggressively and why safety ratings exist for almost every car made.

In the case it MIGHT happen you at least have confidence your car can sustain the hit and if not you can also be confident you can call an ambulance and have a chance to live. The decision to make an abortion is much like choosing a car with a high safety rating over one with a low safety rating.