Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Mavorpen]

In the hypothetical car crash, you don't really deserve anything, but in the interests of sympathy let's say that you ought to get to a hospital.

The Constitution protects the right to choose to have an abortion?

No, Roe v. Wade protects the right to choose to have an abortion.

Technically the current precedent is set by Planned Parenthood v Casey, but yes.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Too bad you don't have the right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their bodies. Bodily sovereignty trumps right to life, and the courts agree.

It's not the woman's bodily sovereignty, genetically it is absolutely not hers, it's not the father's body either, it's independent.

We're talking about her own body.

If I latch myself to you, do you have a right to detach me at the risk of my death or not?

[Edgy Opinions]

It's not the woman's bodily sovereignty, genetically it is absolutely not hers, it's not the father's body either, it's independent.

An independent multicellular microbioid, little different in organization and biological complexity from the stuff that born and die inside our guts everyday, without any of us even caring.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Even if someone else caused the crash?

You were probably driving in a manner that invited it.

It was all those drivers! They made me want to go poopy.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.

Do you realize such a thing as contraceptive failure exists, right?

Or that you think people deserve to potentially die for the consequences of what they did? Because of a fucking non-person? (All pregnancies are potentially risky, and clandestine abortions even more so.)

As if we didn't kill animals for costly, unnecessary, counterproductive, wasteful, potentially hazardous (inflammatory, carcinogenic, highly fatty, more easily potentially contaminated) food resource or research guinea pigs all the fucking time who are much closer to humanity than all those senseless, worthless blobs of cells? Because of what YOU feel entitled to what OTHERS got to do with their OWN fucking lives? As if you held ownership over their genitals, and the blobs of cells weren't just a meaningless result from their own physiological function, that they can at any given time not desire because one's supposed to control their bodies to the extent of their personal comfort within the limits of science, and that "body" is no one else's because there's no cognitive or even neurological function at all to represent that in any meaningful manner?

People like you are fucking tiresome. Then people go and say misogyny is "rare".

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

It's not the woman's bodily sovereignty, genetically it is absolutely not hers, it's not the father's body either, it's independent.

An independent multicellular microbioid, little different in organization and biological complexity from the stuff that born and die inside our guts everyday, without any of us even caring.

How much of the bacteria in your gut become adult human beings after 20 years?

[Olthar]

Even if someone else caused the crash?

You were probably driving in a manner that invited it.

Anyone driving in a red car is just asking to get in an accident.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Do you realize such a thing as contraceptive failure exists, right?

Or that you think people deserve to potentially die for the consequences of what they did? Because of a fucking non-person? (All pregnancies are potentially risky, and clandestine abortions even more so.)

As if we didn't kill animals for costly, unnecessary, counterproductive, wasteful, potentially hazardous (inflammatory, carcinogenic, highly fatty, more easily potentially contaminated) food resource or research guinea pigs all the fucking time who are much closer to humanity than all those senseless, worthless blobs of cells? Because of what YOU feel entitled to what OTHERS got to do with their OWN fucking lives? As if you held ownership over their genitals, and the blobs of cells weren't just a meaningless result from their own physiological function, that they can at any given time not desire because one's supposed to control their bodies to the extent of their personal comfort within the limits of science, and that "body" is no one else's because there's no cognitive or even neurological function at all to represent that in any meaningful manner?

People like you are fucking tiresome. Then people go and say misogyny is "rare".

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

Yes, but meanwhile, at any present stage before week 30, they are nothing but clumps of cells.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

It's not the woman's bodily sovereignty, genetically it is absolutely not hers, it's not the father's body either, it's independent.

We're talking about her own body.

If I latch myself to you, do you have a right to detach me at the risk of my death or not?

If the fetus is preventing a threat to the woman's life, I have already stated, abortion is a legitimate option.

[Neutraligon]

Do you realize such a thing as contraceptive failure exists, right?

Or that you think people deserve to potentially die for the consequences of what they did? Because of a fucking non-person? (All pregnancies are potentially risky, and clandestine abortions even more so.)

As if we didn't kill animals for costly, unnecessary, counterproductive, wasteful, potentially hazardous (inflammatory, carcinogenic, highly fatty, more easily potentially contaminated) food resource or research guinea pigs all the fucking time who are much closer to humanity than all those senseless, worthless blobs of cells? Because of what YOU feel entitled to what OTHERS got to do with their OWN fucking lives? As if you held ownership over their genitals, and the blobs of cells weren't just a meaningless result from their own physiological function, that they can at any given time not desire because one's supposed to control their bodies to the extent of their personal comfort within the limits of science, and that "body" is no one else's because there's no cognitive or even neurological function at all to represent that in any meaningful manner?

People like you are fucking tiresome. Then people go and say misogyny is "rare".

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

No a fetus is in the process of becoming a baby. Actually there are statistics that most unborn do not make it to being a baby, I have heard statistics as high as 1/3 of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Just so you know the typical failure rate of condoms is around 18%
http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/u ... ption.htm#

[Luminesa]

Hi, Sancti! I love your name, by the way. It's quite pretty.

Usually the amount of people who abort in cases of rape or because of the "mother's health" is very low. People usually abort for other reasons, such as not having enough money, being scared of being abandoned by family, friends, boyfriends, etc.

Indeed, killing the fetus is irresponsible. It doesn't fix anything. That being said, how is killing a baby who was conceived in rape responsible?

I dunno if I'm just overthinking the name or anything, but I've seen the name 'Sanctissima' before. Would you happen to be Catholic?

1. You say the cases of rape or mother's health is low. How do you know that? Besides, you also assert that not having enough money or being scared of being abandoned is another reason to have an abortion, guess where that culture comes from?

2. Killing the fetus is not irresponsible. Like I noted in a prior talk with you pregnant women don't just go and expect to have a soccer match with their fetus. Also, killing a baby who was conceived in rape is far more responsible and merciful than having that child suffer his or her mother's resentment because her family and society forced her to have a baby that was the result of rape and she has a reminder for the rest of her life which she will loathe forever.

1.) I'm not saying it is a reason anyone SHOULD have an abortion, but it is a reason many people DO get abortions.
As far as the first part...let me go look...
http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/8

Let me say that it is very hard to go find an unbiased source on the internet, and many medical journals have different statistics on this issue (not to mention many physicians nowadays are pro-abortion, so many journals also seem to have a pro-abortion lean.) Anyway, the data above does quote Dr. Guttmacher from Planned Parenthood, and several other doctors. So I think it carries some weight.

2.) Does killing the child really end the cycle of hatred that rape causes? I've actually heard several stories where women are happy they didn't kill the child. Sure, it's hard to bring a child conceived through rape into the world. It can be scary. At the same time, circumstances do not have to define you. A baby conceived in rape can still grow up to do amazing things, just like a baby who was conceived by a loving mother and father can. Sure, the former may not grow up in the same stable environment as the latter, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give them a chance. You know what I mean?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

An independent multicellular microbioid, little different in organization and biological complexity from the stuff that born and die inside our guts everyday, without any of us even caring.

How much of the bacteria in your gut become adult human beings after 20 years?

How many people are in death row?

[East Catalina]

No, Roe v. Wade protects the right to choose to have an abortion.

Technically the current precedent is set by Planned Parenthood v Casey, but yes.

The Constitution protects the right to choose to have an abortion?

It protects the right for doctors to practice freely and for their patients to have privacy between their doctors regarding medical decisions.

Abortion falls under that as it's a medical procedure like any other medical procedure like an organ transplant or a vaccination.

Thanks for telling me this.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

Yes, but meanwhile, at any present stage before week 30, they are nothing but clumps of cells.

I am aware, but in *most* cases, that clump of cells will grow to be an actual human being.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

A sperm cell, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, some sperm cells make it there eventually.

[Edgy Opinions]

An independent multicellular microbioid, little different in organization and biological complexity from the stuff that born and die inside our guts everyday, without any of us even caring.

How much of the bacteria in your gut become adult human beings after 20 years?

As many as all the spermatozoa likewise produced by my body in said time span. So far they're all potential origins of human life that might subsequently, using the bodily resources of somebody else, become people of their own, but right now, they're just microbes. So are the blobs of cells, even if now they at least have a genome more similar in kind to mine.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

We're talking about her own body.

If I latch myself to you, do you have a right to detach me at the risk of my death or not?

If the fetus is preventing a threat to the woman's life, I have already stated, abortion is a legitimate option.

And like I already stated through sarcasm that doesn't tend to work very well because it's hard for doctors to determine when a woman is in absolute danger even when they can see that they are in risk of a complication happening beforehand.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Technically the current precedent is set by Planned Parenthood v Casey, but yes.

It protects the right for doctors to practice freely and for their patients to have privacy between their doctors regarding medical decisions.

Abortion falls under that as it's a medical procedure like any other medical procedure like an organ transplant or a vaccination.

Thanks for telling me this.

If that were the case, euthanasia would be legal everywhere, which it isn't. Voluntary euthanasia is something I fully support.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, but meanwhile, at any present stage before week 30, they are nothing but clumps of cells.

I am aware, but in *most* cases, that clump of cells will grow to be an actual human being.

And until they do, there is no argument against removing them from a woman's body or killing them.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

If the fetus is preventing a threat to the woman's life, I have already stated, abortion is a legitimate option.

And like I already stated through sarcasm that doesn't tend to work very well because it's hard for doctors to determine when a woman is in absolute danger even when they can see that they are in risk of a complication happening beforehand.

So? There must be just cause to believe a life-threatening complication may occur.

[New Werpland]

The Abortion issue actually demonstrates a flaw in Liberal philosophy, which is useful for propagating my own ideology.

Do explain.

I kind of exaggerated there, Abortion just presents an issue where the liberal system of supporting something based on freedom of choice becomes "evil" because it would be saying that people are free to murder children if they want to, this either forces people to reevaluate their philosophy and uphold abortion in a different way (such as identifying that a fetus is not a person), or they might just do that and ignore the philosophical implications.

I don't know what I was thinking when I made that original post, I probably just wanted attention.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Thanks for telling me this.

If that were the case, euthanasia would be legal everywhere, which it isn't. Voluntary euthanasia is something I fully support.

Euthanasia is already legal in Oregon and only one provider exist in the entire U.S. due to the fact that the other states have a griping fear of death, somehow.

[Olthar]

Do you realize such a thing as contraceptive failure exists, right?

Or that you think people deserve to potentially die for the consequences of what they did? Because of a fucking non-person? (All pregnancies are potentially risky, and clandestine abortions even more so.)

As if we didn't kill animals for costly, unnecessary, counterproductive, wasteful, potentially hazardous (inflammatory, carcinogenic, highly fatty, more easily potentially contaminated) food resource or research guinea pigs all the fucking time who are much closer to humanity than all those senseless, worthless blobs of cells? Because of what YOU feel entitled to what OTHERS got to do with their OWN fucking lives? As if you held ownership over their genitals, and the blobs of cells weren't just a meaningless result from their own physiological function, that they can at any given time not desire because one's supposed to control their bodies to the extent of their personal comfort within the limits of science, and that "body" is no one else's because there's no cognitive or even neurological function at all to represent that in any meaningful manner?

People like you are fucking tiresome. Then people go and say misogyny is "rare".

Contraceptive failure is pretty rare, actually. A fetus, you see, is in the process of becoming an adult human being, and even though it is not conscious and cannot feel things, most fetuses make it there eventually.

3% isn't that rare. It's harder to catch most legendary Pokémon.

[Neutraligon]

1. You say the cases of rape or mother's health is low. How do you know that? Besides, you also assert that not having enough money or being scared of being abandoned is another reason to have an abortion, guess where that culture comes from?

2. Killing the fetus is not irresponsible. Like I noted in a prior talk with you pregnant women don't just go and expect to have a soccer match with their fetus. Also, killing a baby who was conceived in rape is far more responsible and merciful than having that child suffer his or her mother's resentment because her family and society forced her to have a baby that was the result of rape and she has a reminder for the rest of her life which she will loathe forever.

1.) I'm not saying it is a reason anyone SHOULD have an abortion, but it is a reason many people DO get abortions.
As far as the first part...let me go look...
http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/8

Let me say that it is very hard to go find an unbiased source on the internet, and many medical journals have different statistics on this issue (not to mention many physicians nowadays are pro-abortion, so many journals also seem to have a pro-abortion lean.) Anyway, the data above does quote Dr. Guttmacher from Planned Parenthood, and several other doctors. So I think it carries some weight.

2.) Does killing the child really end the cycle of hatred that rape causes? I've actually heard several stories where women are happy they didn't kill the child. Sure, it's hard to bring a child conceived through rape into the world. It can be scary. At the same time, circumstances do not have to define you. A baby conceived in rape can still grow up to do amazing things, just like a baby who was conceived by a loving mother and father can. Sure, the former may not grow up in the same stable environment as the latter, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give them a chance. You know what I mean?

1) Source that doctors are pro-abortion.
2) End the cycle of hate, no. Give the woman one less reminder of the rape, yes. Some people are happy when they give birth despite the baby being a result of rape, others do not want to carry it at all and are happy having aborted. The point is these women made a choice.

[WestRedMaple]

Still not a real analogy. Let's make a better one: with the help of some new drugs that prevent rejection, I physically attach myself to you....do you feel you have any right to have me removed?

I can remove you, but I'm not going to kill you. I'll just take a crowbar and some oil and pry you off.

If we were comparing this to abortion, then abortion in this case would be like taking out a pistol and shooting you in the head for attaching yourself to me. Which would be inhumane and unreasonable, when, again, I can just pry you off and go along my merry way. Meanwhile, you are still living and capable of going on with your life.

You didn't answer.

You're adding things that have nothing to do with the scenario or the question.

Which is it: yes or no?