Toddler Shoots and Kills Mother

[Divitaen]

This is the reason why the "more guns make people safer" idea is a myth. It would be true in a perfect world where everyone was well-trained in gun safety and gun usage. But that isn't the case. Guns often fall into the wrong hands, and that includes people untrained to use them, like this toddler. There have been thousands of cases like this every year, just like the case of the young girl at a firing range who shot at instructor. More reasons to support gun safety legislation.

Gun Control won't stop negligence.

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

[United Marxist Nations]

This is the reason why the "more guns make people safer" idea is a myth. It would be true in a perfect world where everyone was well-trained in gun safety and gun usage. But that isn't the case. Guns often fall into the wrong hands, and that includes people untrained to use them, like this toddler. There have been thousands of cases like this every year, just like the case of the young girl at a firing range who shot at instructor. More reasons to support gun safety legislation.

I've been able to find that there are thousands of gun accidents, but only about 600 of those result in fatalities every year.

[Organized States]

Gun Control won't stop negligence.

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

It might, but the thing is, even those people well trained in Gun Safety, such as the instructor in Arizona, are capable of making mistakes like that.

[Divitaen]

This is the reason why the "more guns make people safer" idea is a myth. It would be true in a perfect world where everyone was well-trained in gun safety and gun usage. But that isn't the case. Guns often fall into the wrong hands, and that includes people untrained to use them, like this toddler. There have been thousands of cases like this every year, just like the case of the young girl at a firing range who shot at instructor. More reasons to support gun safety legislation.

I've been able to find that there are thousands of gun accidents, but only about 600 of those result in fatalities every year.

And that is still terrible. There should be regulations to ensure that gun owners take every care to make sure dangerous weapons are inaccessible to children. It's a basic responsibility. If you want to own a gun, make sure it does not take innocent lives.

[Divitaen]

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

It might, but the thing is, even those people well trained in Gun Safety, such as the instructor in Arizona, are capable of making mistakes like that.

It's about mitigating the harm. It doesn't end all gun accidents, but it certainly lowers the number of such incidents.

[United Marxist Nations]

I've been able to find that there are thousands of gun accidents, but only about 600 of those result in fatalities every year.

And that is still terrible. There should be regulations to ensure that gun owners take every care to make sure dangerous weapons are inaccessible to children. It's a basic responsibility. If you want to own a gun, make sure it does not take innocent lives.

Then we should make gun safes more affordable. Right now, to keep all of your guns inaccessible to children, 100%, it can take into the hundreds of dollars. There is a whole industry devoted to taking the money of people who (quite rightfully) are concerned for their children's safety.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

God Bless America.

What's the answer to these killings?

Fucking eugenics.

[Divitaen]

And that is still terrible. There should be regulations to ensure that gun owners take every care to make sure dangerous weapons are inaccessible to children. It's a basic responsibility. If you want to own a gun, make sure it does not take innocent lives.

Then we should make gun safes more affordable. Right now, to keep all of your guns inaccessible to children, 100%, it can take into the hundreds of dollars. There is a whole industry devoted to taking the money of people who (quite rightfully) are concerned for their children's safety.

That's one solution, but we need regulations to ensure people are held responsible if they do not store their guns safely, so that people actually take the trouble to buy and use these gun safes. Besides, if you want a gun, you should be willing to pay for the accessories to store that gun.

[Big Jim P]

Gun Control won't stop negligence.

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

We can implement that as soon as we finish implementing mandatory civics courses to allow people to vote.

[Divitaen]

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

We can implement that as soon as we finish implementing mandatory civics courses to allow people to vote.

We can't objectively determine what is a "good" or "bad" vote. But we can determine that firearm practices that put children at risk cost lives and therefore are objectively bad. I don't understand how such a scheme would infringe any constitutional rights.

[Big Jim P]

We can implement that as soon as we finish implementing mandatory civics courses to allow people to vote.

We can't objectively determine what is a "good" or "bad" vote. But we can determine that firearm practices that put children at risk cost lives and therefore are objectively bad. I don't understand how such a scheme would infringe any constitutional rights.

Seeing as the woman had a CCW, she had the training. It did no good.

[Divitaen]

We can't objectively determine what is a "good" or "bad" vote. But we can determine that firearm practices that put children at risk cost lives and therefore are objectively bad. I don't understand how such a scheme would infringe any constitutional rights.

Seeing as the woman had a CCW, she had the training. It did no good.

So improve it. Don't let people just keep guns in their purses where they are easily accessible to young children. Hold people accountable for firearm negligence. Negligence with a gun is a very serious matter.

[Big Jim P]

Seeing as the woman had a CCW, she had the training. It did no good.

So improve it. Don't let people just keep guns in their purses where they are easily accessible to young children. Hold people accountable for firearm negligence. Negligence with a gun is a very serious matter.

My first post in this thread:

Carrying a gun in a purse is very irresponsible (the only proper way to carry is on the body. If the woman had a CCW she should have known this). Allowing a child access to the purse (where the woman KNEW the gun was) is negligent in the extreme.

The woman paid for her negligence. She's dead.

[Divitaen]

So improve it. Don't let people just keep guns in their purses where they are easily accessible to young children. Hold people accountable for firearm negligence. Negligence with a gun is a very serious matter.

My first post in this thread:

Carrying a gun in a purse is very irresponsible (the only proper way to carry is on the body. If the woman had a CCW she should have known this). Allowing a child access to the purse (where the woman KNEW the gun was) is negligent in the extreme.

The woman paid for her negligence. She's dead.

So that's it then. She's dead. Move along folks, nothing to worry about. The toddler could have shot someone else who was uninvolved. Many times accidental shootings kill people other than the owner who was responsible for storing the gun. Negligence leads to accidental shootings which takes lives. All I'm saying is we clearly need better firearm regulations.

[Big Jim P]

My first post in this thread:



The woman paid for her negligence. She's dead.

So that's it then. She's dead. Move along folks, nothing to worry about. The toddler could have shot someone else who was uninvolved. Many times accidental shootings kill people other than the owner who was responsible for storing the gun. Negligence leads to accidental shootings which takes lives. All I'm saying is we clearly need better firearm regulations.

Despite all the fear-mongering, when you consider the number of suicides, homicides and accidental deaths (30,000 total), against the number of gun owners (Estimated at 100 million), and the number of guns in private hands (estimated at 300 million), the problem is no where near the point that requiring more (or any) training would be cost-effective.

Balance that against the benefits of private gun ownership and the fact that the "problem" is just plain fear-mongering becomes glaringly obvious.

[Divitaen]

So that's it then. She's dead. Move along folks, nothing to worry about. The toddler could have shot someone else who was uninvolved. Many times accidental shootings kill people other than the owner who was responsible for storing the gun. Negligence leads to accidental shootings which takes lives. All I'm saying is we clearly need better firearm regulations.

Despite all the fear-mongering, when you consider the number of suicides, homicides and accidental deaths (30,000 total), against the number of gun owners (Estimated at 100 million), and the number of guns in private hands (estimated at 300 million), the problem is no where near the point that requiring more (or any) training would be cost-effective.

Balance that against the benefits of private gun ownership and the fact that the "problem" is just plain fear-mongering becomes glaringly obvious.

I won't debate the benefits of private gun ownership as I have done in previous gun control threads, because it may be considered a thread-jack. Needless to say though I believe that protecting life and public safety is extremely important, and the death toll of 30,000 as you mentioned may look like a small number compared to the number of gun owners, but that ratio is irrelevant. The point is thousands of people continue to die from firearm negligence, and isn't it the state's duty to ensure people can walk the streets in public without fear that someone may steal a gun or a child may take a gun by accident and fire it in the way of innocent people? You shouldn't have to put up with such deregulation.

[Master Shake]

If we had laws that all gun owners had to attend gun safety courses so they can prevent guns from falling into the hands of untrained youngsters, it would help a lot.

We can implement that as soon as we finish implementing mandatory civics courses to allow people to vote.

True, in soviet Russia we must show you the "right" way to vote...I mean the "left" way to vote...

[Big Jim P]

Despite all the fear-mongering, when you consider the number of suicides, homicides and accidental deaths (30,000 total), against the number of gun owners (Estimated at 100 million), and the number of guns in private hands (estimated at 300 million), the problem is no where near the point that requiring more (or any) training would be cost-effective.

Balance that against the benefits of private gun ownership and the fact that the "problem" is just plain fear-mongering becomes glaringly obvious.

I won't debate the benefits of private gun ownership as I have done in previous gun control threads, because it may be considered a thread-jack. Needless to say though I believe that protecting life and public safety is extremely important, and the death toll of 30,000 as you mentioned may look like a small number compared to the number of gun owners, but that ratio is irrelevant. The point is thousands of people continue to die from firearm negligence, and isn't it the state's duty to ensure people can walk the streets in public without fear that someone may steal a gun or a child may take a gun by accident and fire it in the way of innocent people? You shouldn't have to put up with such deregulation.

And many more defend their lives with guns. You do know that the number of accidental deaths due to firearms is around 300 right? The rest of the 30,000 are about 10,000 homicides and the rest suicides? None of which will be stopped by more regulation.

Edit: in 2011 there were 591 accidental firearms deaths, not 300. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_03.pdf

[Divitaen]

I won't debate the benefits of private gun ownership as I have done in previous gun control threads, because it may be considered a thread-jack. Needless to say though I believe that protecting life and public safety is extremely important, and the death toll of 30,000 as you mentioned may look like a small number compared to the number of gun owners, but that ratio is irrelevant. The point is thousands of people continue to die from firearm negligence, and isn't it the state's duty to ensure people can walk the streets in public without fear that someone may steal a gun or a child may take a gun by accident and fire it in the way of innocent people? You shouldn't have to put up with such deregulation.

And many more defend their lives with guns. You do know that the number of accidental deaths due to firearms is around 300 right? The rest of the 30,000 are about 10,000 homicides and the rest suicides? None of which will be stopped by more regulation.

I won't argue that, but my proposal was not to ban guns, simply that people who get guns ought to go through courses and be held responsible for firearm negligence.

[Big Jim P]

And many more defend their lives with guns. You do know that the number of accidental deaths due to firearms is around 300 right? The rest of the 30,000 are about 10,000 homicides and the rest suicides? None of which will be stopped by more regulation.

I won't argue that, but my proposal was not to ban guns, simply that people who get guns ought to go through courses and be held responsible for firearm negligence.

People are already legally responsible for firearm negligence, and the woman went through courses for here CCW.

[Kilobugya]

When will the US understand that weapons kill and just shouldn't be omnipresent or such tragedies will keep happening ? Guns are dangerous, you shouldn't have one without a damn good reason and very strictly enforced safety rules, period.

[Big Jim P]

When will the US understand that weapons kill and just shouldn't be omnipresent or such tragedies will keep happening ? Guns are dangerous, you shouldn't have one without a damn good reason and very strictly enforced safety rules, period.

Self defense is a damn good reason. As is recreation.

[Risottia]

If the mother had a gun, this would have never... oh...

If the mother had TWO guns... or at least a mousetrap in her bag... or at least if there was the death penalty for parenticidal toddlers... or if they had prayed more often to Aryan Jeebus...

More seriously, the idea of allowing untrained people to carry and operate weapons is a complete idiocy.

[Risottia]

People are already legally responsible for firearm negligence, and the woman went through courses for here CCW.

What? And she wasn't taught that one should never allow a toddler near a gun?

[Divitaen]

I won't argue that, but my proposal was not to ban guns, simply that people who get guns ought to go through courses and be held responsible for firearm negligence.

People are already legally responsible for firearm negligence, and the woman went through courses for here CCW.

Clearly the CCW wasn't effective enough. Plus, prosecution occurs less readily than we may think:

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2012/12/26/prosecutors-weigh-case-of-accidental-shooting-death-of-minneapolis-toddler
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/children-guns-parents_n_2516849.html

So clearly we need some legal reform so that parents are more easily prosecuted if their negligence causes an accidental shooting.