Toddler Shoots and Kills Mother

[Galloism]

Eh, we smuggle in billions of pounds of marijuana annually, and very few are addicted to pot.

It's not especially addicting.



They're not more easily detected, actually. They're not especially less portable either. We don't have the manpower or equipment to scan even 1% of the cargo that enters the United States. Drugs are easier (although not especially easy), because a dog can walk down the aisle between containers stacked three high and detect drugs. Guns cannot be sniffed out.

Certainly more difficult to manufacture. It'd probably take me the better part of two days to manufacture a decent one in my garage if my left hand wasn't messed up. Of course, I have tools.

Now, if we're talking about sniper weapons, you're quite correct that it requires a very specific and precise manufacturing process, but making a gun that's good at a range of 100 feet is really not that hard.



Grandpa did. He wouldn't have been able to rush them, but he did have time to draw his gun.

One of my main problems is that those who seek to ban guns seek to ban the great equalizer of force. This means that, in reality, who they are hurting are women and the elderly. Those are the ones who need guns most - because they can't (or may not be able to) defend themselves using their body alone.

Really, those who would ban guns hate women.


You're talking about banning something more dearly held precious by Americans than alcohol or drugs.

Something that is seen as a god-given right (not really my view, given if it was god-given, we would have had guns always) to have. If you think it would be cheaper than the drug war, you are so far outside this reality that we're going to need some sort of transdimensional gateway to get you back.

Now while women may or may not be physically weaker then men that is pure sexist to say that women need guns to defend themselves. I know women who are vicious is martial arts when they spar and can more than likely beat the shite out of any attacker.

Hence my "may not be able to".

I've met women who could kick my ass in a straight fight. However, as a function of averages, men tend to possess more upper body strength, so in a grapple between your average man and average woman, it's highly likely the man will come out victories.

Criminal or victim, makes little difference.

Do outliers exist? Certainly. They may even be common.

Would I support all people learning extensive martial arts so all criminal activities turn into epic martial arts battles?

... well, yes.

[Master Shake]

Swiss citizens - for example hunters, or those who shoot as a sport - can get a permit to buy guns and ammunition, unless they have a criminal record, or police deem them unsuitable on psychiatric or security grounds.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21379912

A consistent standard for that is what most American gun control advocates seek.

BS... Tustin Police Department has beat me twice in the last ten years. They would NEVER allow me a gun to protect myself...

Cops here would ban anyone they don't like from owning a gun...it will never work in America..,Police are too corrupt...

Letting the police decide who has the guns will lead us to the USSR as the only result ...

Hell the police in SoCal are already bought off by the Mexican cartel so that the mafia can operate marijuana clinics in Orange County...

Answer me this United Marxist...what is stopping the Cartels from bribing the cops so they can still keep their guns after your law is passed?

[United Marxist Nations]

Actually, when you think about it, Switzerland's gun laws are pretty misogynistic; which I suppose isn't very surprising for a country where women have only been able to vote for 43 years.

[Keyboard Warriors]

You can, if you hold a valid permit. Vastly different to "you can" in the United States.

Getting a valid permit is no issue, especially since militia members are required to have most gun-related permits.

It also means what you do with the gun is quite traceable. That's why you'll find a lot of people shoot themselves in Switzerland as opposed to other people; it's very easy for the police to figure out where the bullets came from.

[The Lotophagi]

Actually, when you think about it, Switzerland's gun laws are pretty misogynistic; which I suppose isn't very surprising for a country where women have only been able to vote for 43 years.

One of many reasons why using Switzerland as a model for any other country is downright silly. Switzerland's systems 'work' solely because of its own historical position, and would catastrophically fail if applied anywhere else that didn't have its unique context.

[Seno Zhou Varada]

Now while women may or may not be physically weaker then men that is pure sexist to say that women need guns to defend themselves. I know women who are vicious is martial arts when they spar and can more than likely beat the shite out of any attacker.

Hence my "may not be able to".

I've met women who could kick my ass in a straight fight. However, as a function of averages, men tend to possess more upper body strength, so in a grapple between your average man and average woman, it's highly likely the man will come out victories.

Criminal or victim, makes little difference.

Do outliers exist? Certainly. They may even be common.

Would I support all people learning extensive martial arts so all criminal activities turn into epic martial arts battles?

... well, yes.

Agreed. Shootout or fight that lasts 3 seconds at most and one guy at the end has their head 20 feet from the corpse... latter.

[Galloism]

Hence my "may not be able to".

I've met women who could kick my ass in a straight fight. However, as a function of averages, men tend to possess more upper body strength, so in a grapple between your average man and average woman, it's highly likely the man will come out victories.

Criminal or victim, makes little difference.

Do outliers exist? Certainly. They may even be common.

Would I support all people learning extensive martial arts so all criminal activities turn into epic martial arts battles?

... well, yes.

Agreed. Shootout or fight that lasts 3 seconds at most and one guy at the end has their head 20 feet from the corpse... latter.

It would be pretty epic.

"And a robbery at a convenience store today resulted in this epic martial arts battle for 53 minutes. Shocking video caught on tape:"

Every news night would be entertainment night.

[United Marxist Nations]

Getting a valid permit is no issue, especially since militia members are required to have most gun-related permits.

It also means what you do with the gun is quite traceable. That's why you'll find a lot of people shoot themselves in Switzerland as opposed to other people; it's very easy for the police to figure out where the bullets came from.

No offense, but in most places in the states, you can do that too; bullet casings come with their own serial numbers. And, at least in TN, they do background checks at stores for buying ammunition (if it isn't legally required, then Gander Mountain must elect to do it anyway). That said, since it is the casing, not the bullet that have the registration, bullet registration wouldn't have much effect on trace-ability of the round, as long as the person shooting picks up the casings when they are done.

[Galloism]

It also means what you do with the gun is quite traceable. That's why you'll find a lot of people shoot themselves in Switzerland as opposed to other people; it's very easy for the police to figure out where the bullets came from.

No offense, but in most places in the states, you can do that too; bullet casings come with their own serial numbers. And, at least in TN, they do background checks at stores for buying ammunition (if it isn't legally required, then Gander Mountain must elect to do it anyway). That said, since it is the casing, not the bullet that have the registration, bullet registration wouldn't have much effect on trace-ability of the round, as long as the person shooting picks up the casings when they are done.

I'm not sure your average criminal really polices the brass.

[United Marxist Nations]

Actually, when you think about it, Switzerland's gun laws are pretty misogynistic; which I suppose isn't very surprising for a country where women have only been able to vote for 43 years.

One of many reasons why using Switzerland as a model for any other country is downright silly. Switzerland's systems 'work' solely because of its own historical position, and would catastrophically fail if applied anywhere else that didn't have its unique context.

How can you know it would fail if applied elsewhere? As far as I know, there aren't other countries that mandate firearm owners be trained. Or are you referring to the misogynistic aspects of it?

[The Lotophagi]

Getting a valid permit is no issue, especially since militia members are required to have most gun-related permits.

It also means what you do with the gun is quite traceable. That's why you'll find a lot of people shoot themselves in Switzerland as opposed to other people; it's very easy for the police to figure out where the bullets came from.

Doubly so considering that none of the state-issued weapons kept in peoples' homes have any government-provided ammunition whatsoever. That was kept in government-maintained and locked ammunition depots. If you want to use the gun in any case other than the defense of the nation, you need to buy it yourself. And even that requires a permit wherein you have to specifically state why you need the gun/ammo in the first place, and if actually granted applies solely to the weapon you've registered.

[United Marxist Nations]

No offense, but in most places in the states, you can do that too; bullet casings come with their own serial numbers. And, at least in TN, they do background checks at stores for buying ammunition (if it isn't legally required, then Gander Mountain must elect to do it anyway). That said, since it is the casing, not the bullet that have the registration, bullet registration wouldn't have much effect on trace-ability of the round, as long as the person shooting picks up the casings when they are done.

I'm not sure your average criminal really polices the brass.

You're probably right. However, if that is the logic behind registering them, and is the deterrent for people shooting others, they would probably wise-up.

[The Lotophagi]

One of many reasons why using Switzerland as a model for any other country is downright silly. Switzerland's systems 'work' solely because of its own historical position, and would catastrophically fail if applied anywhere else that didn't have its unique context.

How can you know it would fail if applied elsewhere? As far as I know, there aren't other countries that mandate firearm owners be trained. Or are you referring to the misogynistic aspects of it?

The whole shebang. Switzerland's laws and governmental work because it's a tiny, not very densely-populated country that's carried a lot of pre-modern governmental ideals over from its past due to fact that it's been continuously neutral and relatively unimportant for probably over 200 years now. You can't remove ideas like its militia system and expect it to work on a much larger scale with a very different historical and cultural context.

[United Marxist Nations]

How can you know it would fail if applied elsewhere? As far as I know, there aren't other countries that mandate firearm owners be trained. Or are you referring to the misogynistic aspects of it?

The whole shebang. Switzerland's laws and governmental work because it's a tiny, not very densely-populated country that's carried a lot of pre-modern governmental ideals over from its past due to fact that it's been continuously neutral and relatively unimportant for probably over 200 years now. You can't remove ideas like its militia system and expect it to work on a much larger scale with a very different historical and cultural context.

I'm not necessarily talking about a militia system (although, as a Marxist-Leninist, I would advocate some form of one), but the idea of mandating that gun owners undergo safety training and have easy access to materials aiding in safe-storage of such weapons.

[Master Shake]

I'm just going to say...

I national gun ban will never work...

I system of the police governing all firearms will never work..

Why because America wants an all or nothing solution...

No compromise is what is currently going on...

We need to actually find middle ground instead of two polar opposite solutions...

[Ararat Mountain]

my reaction to this tragic accident
in that order

[The Lotophagi]

The whole shebang. Switzerland's laws and governmental work because it's a tiny, not very densely-populated country that's carried a lot of pre-modern governmental ideals over from its past due to fact that it's been continuously neutral and relatively unimportant for probably over 200 years now. You can't remove ideas like its militia system and expect it to work on a much larger scale with a very different historical and cultural context.

I'm not necessarily talking about a militia system (although, as a Marxist-Leninist, I would advocate some form of one), but the idea of mandating that gun owners undergo safety training and have easy access to materials aiding in safe-storage of such weapons.

That in and of itself is not a problem. Mandating gun safety courses and safe storage etc would work fine - the thing I was taking issue with is using Switzerland's as an example specifically, since it's not just a gun safety law - it's an entire package of laws tied in with the establishment of the Swiss military, which is itself and entirely different beast to anything N'Americans are used to.

[Greed and Death]

http://www.idaho.gov/laws_rules/firearm.html

Purchasing Firearms

There is no state permit required for the purchase of any rifle, shotgun, or handgun.

It is unlawful to directly or indirectly sell to any minor under the age of eighteen years any weapon without the written consent of the parent or guardian of the minor.

No state permit is required to possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun.

You need to pass a test to get a drivers licence. You should also need to pass a test to get a shooters licence.

Idaho already requires that.
http://www.ag.idaho.gov/concealedWeapon ... x.html#How do I obtain a concealed weapons license in Idaho

Gun Safety classes at best only prevent accidents to the same degree drivers ed prevents car accidents.

[Seno Zhou Varada]

Agreed. Shootout or fight that lasts 3 seconds at most and one guy at the end has their head 20 feet from the corpse... latter.

It would be pretty epic.

"And a robbery at a convenience store today resulted in this epic martial arts battle for 53 minutes. Shocking video caught on tape:"

Every news night would be entertainment night.

F yeah! Maybe finally I'll watch TV.

[Master Shake]

It would be pretty epic.

"And a robbery at a convenience store today resulted in this epic martial arts battle for 53 minutes. Shocking video caught on tape:"

Every news night would be entertainment night.

F yeah! Maybe finally I'll watch TV.

They'd have to get Jackie Chan to kick all the bad guys ass though...

[Confederate Ramenia]

I personally think only educating people on how to safely handle guns would prevent things like this. One major thing would be keeping guns out of reach of toddlers.

[Big Jim P]

I personally think only educating people on how to safely handle guns would prevent things like this. One major thing would be keeping guns out of reach of toddlers.

The woman violated two important safety standards and died for her negligence. I am sad for the child though.

[Divitaen]

This is the reason why the "more guns make people safer" idea is a myth. It would be true in a perfect world where everyone was well-trained in gun safety and gun usage. But that isn't the case. Guns often fall into the wrong hands, and that includes people untrained to use them, like this toddler. There have been thousands of cases like this every year, just like the case of the young girl at a firing range who shot at instructor. More reasons to support gun safety legislation.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I am surprised a two year old had the strength to discharge the weapon, though that is probably my lack of familiarity with handguns.

[Organized States]

This is the reason why the "more guns make people safer" idea is a myth. It would be true in a perfect world where everyone was well-trained in gun safety and gun usage. But that isn't the case. Guns often fall into the wrong hands, and that includes people untrained to use them, like this toddler. There have been thousands of cases like this every year, just like the case of the young girl at a firing range who shot at instructor. More reasons to support gun safety legislation.

Gun Control won't stop negligence.