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Police & gov't seize property without due process

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Jamzmania
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Police & gov't seize property without due process

Postby Jamzmania » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:18 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/tim-walberg-an-end-to-the-abuse-of-civil-forfeiture/2014/09/04/e7b9d07a-3395-11e4-9e92-0899b306bbea_story.html
By Tim Walberg September 4
The writer, a Republican, represents Michigan’s 7th Congressional District in the U.S. House.
Imagine you are driving down the highway on your way to buy a car. You spent months researching years, makes and models, and you finally found somebody who was selling the exact ride you were looking for at a reasonable price. Suddenly, police pull you over for allegedly going 37 mph in a 35 mph zone. Upon discovering the $8,500 in cash you have on hand, the officers take you to jail and threaten to charge you with money laundering unless you turn over the money. Frightened, you give it to them.

This may sound like something out of a Hollywood movie, but it’s a true story, and incidents like it happen all too often across the country because of our civil forfeiture laws.

Fortunately, the victim in the above story, Roderick Daniels, had his property returned by officials due to media attention and legal pressure. But the power to take property without due process continues to be abused by local, state and federal law enforcement officials. In my state of Michigan, grocery store owner Terry Dehko had his bank account seized by the IRS because it suspected him of being a money launderer. Dehko would make cash deposits in the bank across the street every night to reduce the threat of robbery and because of coverage limits on his store’s insurance policy. Charges were never filed, but Dehko had to fight in court to prove that his money was not being used in a criminal enterprise.

Many of the abuses occur at the state and local levels, but the federal government encourages them through “equitable-sharing partnerships,” a practice that allows police agencies to circumvent state laws that might otherwise tie their hands. Nebraska has some of the strongest anti-forfeiture laws in the country, but in 2003, the local police used equitable sharing to work with federal officials to seize $124,700 in cash from Emiliano Gonzolez under the federal government’s lesser legal standard of proof. Gonzolez was never charged with a crime, but he lost his cash, which he had intended to use to buy a refrigerated truck for a produce business.

In a country founded on principles of due process and property rights, no one should be comfortable with a system that allows law enforcement to seize personal property without a finding of guilt or, in many cases, even leveling a criminal charge. More states are looking into reforming their forfeiture laws, and this year Minnesota became the latest to push back against such abuses. However, as long as equitable sharing remains an option for local officials who want to work around state laws, such reforms will be nullified. The profit motive is too strong. Last year, equitable-sharing agreements funneled $600 million to police budgets. Clearly, with the size of the federal Asset Forfeiture Fund exceeding $2 billion in 2013, civil forfeiture is big business for the government.

So the government has the ability to seize property from people without charging them with a crime and without due process. They do it by charging the property, inanimate objects, with criminal activity. It then falls on the owner to prove innocence.

This is a disgusting abuse of power. What do yall think of this practice?
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Anarchy Federation
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Postby Anarchy Federation » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:57 am

This is one of the reasons, I advocate for no government to push us around!

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:00 am

What the hell? This is evil shit!
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:00 am

Jamzmania wrote:This is a disgusting abuse of power. What do yall think of this practice?

I'd say I'm suprised that it's Constitutional, but this is an old, unresolved issue. Good that it's cropping up again; maybe something will happen this time.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:46 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:What the hell? This is evil shit!

"Evil" is rather hyperbolic.
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WestRedMaple
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Postby WestRedMaple » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:50 am

Northwest Slobovia wrote:
Jamzmania wrote:This is a disgusting abuse of power. What do yall think of this practice?

I'd say I'm suprised that it's Constitutional, but this is an old, unresolved issue. Good that it's cropping up again; maybe something will happen this time.


I would be surprised too, considering that the only way to make it Constitutional would be an amendment, and I certainly haven't heard of any of those going through lately.

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Empire of Vlissingen
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:09 am

So called "land of the free".
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:11 pm

WestRedMaple wrote:
Northwest Slobovia wrote:I'd say I'm suprised that it's Constitutional, but this is an old, unresolved issue. Good that it's cropping up again; maybe something will happen this time.


I would be surprised too, considering that the only way to make it Constitutional would be an amendment, and I certainly haven't heard of any of those going through lately.

It appears it's survived some Constitutional challenges, though I'm not sure if it's been attacked head on. Also, forfeiture is unconstitutional in New Jersey, of all places.

'course, the President could use his Pen of Acting Executively to forbid the DEA (etc) from using this power, if he cared.
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Oppressorion
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Postby Oppressorion » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:20 pm



John Oliver is always great.
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Qeno
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Postby Qeno » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:22 pm

Oppressorion wrote:


John Oliver is always great.

Civil Asset forfieture...unfortunately it isn't a new problem...
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Postby Transyl » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:24 pm

This just proves that power can make people go crazy...
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Zunkwentania
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Postby Zunkwentania » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:25 pm


Yeah, it was an excellent segment. This practice is evil, and should be outlawed immediately.

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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:32 pm

Zunkwentania wrote:

Yeah, it was an excellent segment. This practice is evil, and should be outlawed immediately.

If you want it outlawed, all you have to do is elect me President in 2015. I'll immediately seize everything owned by all Congressmen, Senators, and Supreme Court Justices, and you can bet the law will found be facially unconsitutional within minutes. Next, I'll use the Kelo decision to "redevelop" their houses into "more valuable" property, and that'll be the end of that. And so on. I have a little list, you see... :twisted:
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Zunkwentania
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Postby Zunkwentania » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:33 pm

Northwest Slobovia wrote:
Zunkwentania wrote:Yeah, it was an excellent segment. This practice is evil, and should be outlawed immediately.

If you want it outlawed, all you have to do is elect me President in 2015. I'll immediately seize everything owned by all Congressmen, Senators, and Supreme Court Justices, and you can bet the law will found be facially unconsitutional within minutes. Next, I'll use the Kelo decision to "redevelop" their houses into "more valuable" property, and that'll be the end of that. And so on. I have a little list, you see... :twisted:

I'll campaign for you :p

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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:48 pm

I think that the big issue and cause is that the government in the States, at least from what I'm told, doesn't properly fund the law enforcement, and leaves it to the limited resources of the local governments, which have sought such laws in order to secure more funds. Ultimately I think that if this practice is going to be rooted out then the government has to pursue an agenda of properly funding the law enforcement, so that such legislation cannot be 'justified' (and I use this term loosely) by the local government as necessary to fund a proper police force. In addition, placing oversight outside of local officials may help the situation considerably as well.

The practice of should only be permitted under the proving by officers that the items were in possession for use in criminal activity, or the intent to commit so, and the burden of proof should lie on the law enforcement not the individual they are confiscating the property from.

The police are the enforcers of the law, and official representatives of the state in the eyes of the people. They must be not only viewed as officials and authorities of the law, but also individuals who assist the community to which people can turn to for aid. When there is no respect for the law enforcement then the respect for law, and thus the lawful society, suffers.
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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:25 pm

Oh, yeah, this is one of the truly awful practices that governments take part in. It's indefensible and reprehensible, and I find it stunning that it's been allowed to continue.

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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:32 pm

This is grotesque and a huge misjustice. I sincerely hope that nobody tries to defend this utter bullshit.
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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:35 pm

Fortschritte wrote:This is grotesque and a huge misjustice. I sincerely hope that nobody tries to defend this utter bullshit.


Literally nobody I know of any political persuasion whatsoever (and I have friends who are all over the board) supports or defends this, and yet somehow it hasn't been completely eliminated.

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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:17 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:This is grotesque and a huge misjustice. I sincerely hope that nobody tries to defend this utter bullshit.


Literally nobody I know of any political persuasion whatsoever (and I have friends who are all over the board) supports or defends this, and yet somehow it hasn't been completely eliminated.

The OP's article is linked to a House bill to reduce, though not ban, forfeiture. Email your Congresscritter to see that it passes.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:19 pm

Much like the electoral college I've never seen a person defend it but I don't see it going anywhere in the near future.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:28 pm

State sanctioned robbery. Gotta love the USA.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:32 pm

This seizure of cash as somehow an element of crime evolved from drug dealer prosecutions, but has now gone much too far. The machinery of the state has found a cash cow; will they let it go without a battle? Not likely.

Although I must say I was delighted when some privileged brats from my home town were caught trying to smuggle tons of cocaine into New Orleans, and had to forfeit their 40 metre yacht.
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Planita
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Postby Planita » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:37 pm


It was great!

The abuses should be banned immediately

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Postby Planita » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:38 pm

Pope Joan wrote:This seizure of cash as somehow an element of crime evolved from drug dealer prosecutions, but has now gone much too far. The machinery of the state has found a cash cow; will they let it go without a battle? Not likely.

[url]Although I must say I was delighted when some privileged brats from my home town were caught trying to smuggle tons of cocaine into New Orleans, and had to forfeit their 40 metre yacht.[/url]

The police officers are going to have a fun time with that ship

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