Time to Nationalize Pharmaceuticals

[Big Jim P]

Are you completely uninterested in convincing Republicans that they're incorrect? Do you just want a circlejerk? Because that's what you'll generate by insulting people.

You must be new around here if you believe jingoists (Republican voters) have any intent or capacity to be swayed by rational discourse. Any Republican true-believer left at this point will take their ideologies to their grave. And, yes, that's an opinion. Prove me wrong.

(And how on earth is it a 'platitude' to say that people don't want to agree with assholes?)

If you don't understand how your personal opinion doesn't equate to some sort of axiom, what else can be said?

They are no better or worse than Democratic true-believers.

[Dalcaria]

Are you completely uninterested in convincing Republicans that they're incorrect? Do you just want a circlejerk? Because that's what you'll generate by insulting people.

You must be new around here if you believe jingoists (Republican voters) have any intent or capacity to be swayed by rational discourse. Any Republican true-believer left at this point will take their ideologies to their grave. And, yes, that's an opinion. Prove me wrong.

Swing voters. There are plenty of Americans who vote between the two parties, and there are plenty of moderate Republicans too. I don't know of them (as I don't follow American politics all that much), but they aren't some fantasy. And there really isn't such a thing as a "Republican True-Believer". This is politics, there are a million and one views people can have from nearly every ideology imaginable, how can you honestly say something is "true" or not? You can say it isn't true to the original concept of something, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's roots in an original concept. And honestly, what is a "true" Republican? This is the party that ended slavery at one point, and now many of its members turn a blind eye when white cops shoot black teenagers. So which one is the "true" Republican ideology?

[CTALNH]

Anything dealing directly with the welfare of the people should be government run because the private sector does not care if people get sick/injured/dead. They can handle entertainment and luxury items, but leave the medication to those who are paid to care.

Agreed.

[New Stinkonia]

Swing voters. I don't know of them (as I don't follow American politics all that much), but they aren't some fantasy. And there really isn't such a thing as a "Republican True-Believer". This is politics, there are a million and one views people can have from nearly every ideology imaginable, how can you honestly say something is "true" or not? You can say it isn't true to the original concept of something, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's roots in an original concept.

That's sweet sounding stuff, and I won't be one to hold back your belief in "moderate" Republicans, but the bottom line is that some people mindlessly and consistently vote Republican, following the lead of propaganda. The attacks on the ACA are a perfect example of this. Maybe I should have been more clear. By Republican voters, I mean people that vote for that party consistently. The "base".

This is the party that ended slavery at one point, and now many of its members turn a blind eye when white cops shoot black teenagers. So which one is the "true" Republican ideology?

You have to be joking.

It still surprises me how people somehow fail to be aware of the inception of the modern Republican party. The left and right wings essentially switched parties when the Democrats began supporting civil rights. The Republican party, as we know it today, started with the Southern Strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy and the illustrious legacy of stirring jingoism to get votes continues to this day.

[Alexanda]

I disagree.
The Government should, in my opinion, force the companies to produce these drugs, and can then buy them, but should not, by any means, take control. How would you want them to take control, anyhow? By purchasing them?

Vote on it in parliament, simple as that. I think legally, they can pretty much just pass a law that allows them to nationalize any company they want, or at the very least, they could pass a bill allowing them to nationalize the pharmaceutical industry at least. Since it's a law, I don't think (theoretically speaking) they'd have to pay any money for the business, which I see no problem with given the circumstances. Plus, honestly, forcing the government to buy the drugs is just going to be one more drag on the economy. They don't need the profits if nationalized, just the money to pay wages and expenses.

So you would rather they ceased control?
How frightful!

[Frisbeeteria]

Having worked for a British multinational pharma firm, I can state with authority that if Britain nationalizes the pharma industry, my old company would simply move out of the country before it happened. We had "headquarters" in London, Philadephia, Raleigh, and Belgium. We had staff in 70+ countries around the world, including major concentrations in India, China and Poland. I'm sure they could move a Corporate HQ to someplace like Kuala Lumpur or Dar Es Salaam in less time than it took Parliment to pass the nationalisation law.

Trying to rein in a multinational is an exercise in frustration. They transcend national borders and laws.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Having worked for a British multinational pharma firm, I can state with authority that if Britain nationalizes the pharma industry, my old company would simply move out of the country before it happened. We had "headquarters" in London, Philadephia, Raleigh, and Belgium. We had staff in 70+ countries around the world, including major concentrations in India, China and Poland. I'm sure they could move a Corporate HQ to someplace like Kuala Lumpur or Dar Es Salaam in less time than it took Parliment to pass the nationalisation law.

Trying to rein in a multinational is an exercise in frustration. They transcend national borders and laws.

Perhaps, but even so any infrastructure such as labs that they held in the UK would be taken over.

[Frisbeeteria]

Perhaps, but even so any infrastructure such as labs that they held in the UK would be taken over.

You're grasping at straws. Empty labs are just sturdy desks with sinks and cabinets. The value of the lab isn't the fixtures, it's the people and the processes they're developing. One of the reasons it's the company I used to work for is that most of the labs (and the research they were doing) got outsourced to China. Since at least one of the lab buildings in question used to belong to Monsanto Chemicals and they dumped toxic waste extensively, they're not going to be able to give that site away. It'd cost more to occupy than it'll ever be worth.

Even if the government took them over and there was some value to be gathered, I'd bet that salaries would be less than 50% of those offered by the private sector. Unless you plan on drafting scientists into national service (which would do wonders for worker morale and productivity), those scientists would move to either a different field or a different country. This concept has FAIL written all over it.

[Skinia]

healthcare isn't a commodity and meds are a basic need. They should be accessible to those in need regardless of their personal wealth.

[New Werpland]

healthcare isn't a commodity and meds are a basic need. They should be accessible to those in need regardless of their personal wealth.

Yeah but I don't see a problem with private sector entities working to find a cure for this threat.

[Skinia]

healthcare isn't a commodity and meds are a basic need. They should be accessible to those in need regardless of their personal wealth.

Yeah but I don't see a problem with private sector entities working to find a cure for this threat.

I see a problem demanding something in return for a basic need when someone needs it.

[Syndicapolis]

EAT THE RICH!!! NATIONALISE EVERYTHING!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Bourgeois state ownership of industries isn't much better than private ownership, but when it comes to healthcare, everyone deserves equally good quality healthcare and the best way to give everyone this is by nationalising every industry that comes under "healthcare," so that all health resources can be distributed equally.

[Salandriagado]

Production isn't the issue here. The issue is distribution. Frankly, it's utterly irrelevant whether the NHS is producing its own drugs or buying them from a private company, as far as this issue goes. The issue is making sure that people actually finish full courses of antibiotics, and that they aren't used where they aren't needed.

[New Stinkonia]

Having worked for a British multinational pharma firm, I can state with authority that if Britain nationalizes the pharma industry, my old company would simply move out of the country before it happened. We had "headquarters" in London, Philadephia, Raleigh, and Belgium. We had staff in 70+ countries around the world, including major concentrations in India, China and Poland. I'm sure they could move a Corporate HQ to someplace like Kuala Lumpur or Dar Es Salaam in less time than it took Parliment to pass the nationalisation law.

Never mind the fire and brimstone spiel. There is no reason the rest of us need to believe this based on your claims, unless you can prove you have a crystal ball. It's like when so called financial "experts" told us the banks were too big to fail. Let's see them fail, then I'll believe it. Otherwise it's just the wizard of Oz telling us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Big pharma wants to leave a large, stable economy like the USA? Good. Let them go to Somalia for all I care. And whichever 3rd world hovel takes them in, put embargoes on that biotch. Then we'll see how they do.

Trying to rein in a multinational is an exercise in frustration. They transcend national borders and laws.

And that's only because they buy the corrupt governments where they operate, not because the sky is going to fall if they have a tantrum.

[New Hampshire Republic]

>Implying that the government takes the moral high road.

[New Aerios]

Having worked for a British multinational pharma firm, I can state with authority that if Britain nationalizes the pharma industry, my old company would simply move out of the country before it happened. We had "headquarters" in London, Philadephia, Raleigh, and Belgium. We had staff in 70+ countries around the world, including major concentrations in India, China and Poland. I'm sure they could move a Corporate HQ to someplace like Kuala Lumpur or Dar Es Salaam in less time than it took Parliment to pass the nationalisation law.

Never mind the fire and brimstone spiel. There is no reason the rest of us need to believe this based on your claims, unless you can prove you have a crystal ball. It's like when so called financial "experts" told us the banks were too big to fail. Let's see them fail, then I'll believe it. Otherwise it's just the wizard of Oz telling us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Big pharma wants to leave a large, stable economy like the USA? Good. Let them go to Somalia for all I care. And whichever 3rd world hovel takes them in, put embargoes on that biotch. Then we'll see how they do.

Trying to rein in a multinational is an exercise in frustration. They transcend national borders and laws.

And that's only because they buy the corrupt governments where they operate, not because the sky is going to fall if they have a tantrum.

Not a very sensible plan, is it? You can only embargo so many countries before everyone decides to embargo you back. And what happens then?

[New Stinkonia]

Never mind the fire and brimstone spiel. There is no reason the rest of us need to believe this based on your claims, unless you can prove you have a crystal ball. It's like when so called financial "experts" told us the banks were too big to fail. Let's see them fail, then I'll believe it. Otherwise it's just the wizard of Oz telling us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Big pharma wants to leave a large, stable economy like the USA? Good. Let them go to Somalia for all I care. And whichever 3rd world hovel takes them in, put embargoes on that biotch. Then we'll see how they do.



And that's only because they buy the corrupt governments where they operate, not because the sky is going to fall if they have a tantrum.

Not a very sensible plan, is it? You can only embargo so many countries before everyone decides to embargo you back. And what happens then?

Which 3rd world country is going to survive an embargo war against the US and its allies?

[Greater-London]

The anti-biotic resistant infections of the future are not the fault of pharmaceutical companies. Its the fault of doctors who have overly prescribed them in the past and people who don't finish courses of antibiotics when they are prescribed.

Pharmaceutical companies can produce as many antibiotics as they want but the people divvying them out are the ones to blame for the anti-biotic resistant superbugs of the future.

[New Aerios]

Not a very sensible plan, is it? You can only embargo so many countries before everyone decides to embargo you back. And what happens then?

Which 3rd world country is going to survive an embargo war against the US and its allies?

You don't get how this works, do you?

If you try to nationalise a major industry, companies will head elsewhere. There are lots of companies. They will go to lots of different countries. The nationalisation won't be particularly popular anyway, and placing embargoes on countries just because they happen to be home to formerly American companies will be even less popular. Given the number of companies out there, you'd have to be placing embargoes on anywhere from 30-100 countries. That shit won't fly. Doesn't matter that it's the big scary USA doing it, that shit won't fly. You will have no allies. You will be facing embargoes not only from the countries you hit, but also from every other country that's fed up with your bullshit. Economy goes bye bye.

[Pope Joan]

These are for the most part not British companies.

If I were them, and you started acting hostile, I would pack up and move out.

Try duplicating the R&D of Merck or Roche on short notice.

[New Stinkonia]

Which 3rd world country is going to survive an embargo war against the US and its allies?

You don't get how this works, do you?

If you try to nationalise a major industry, companies will head elsewhere. There are lots of companies. They will go to lots of different countries. The nationalisation won't be particularly popular anyway, and placing embargoes on countries just because they happen to be home to formerly American companies will be even less popular. Given the number of companies out there, you'd have to be placing embargoes on anywhere from 30-100 countries. That shit won't fly. Doesn't matter that it's the big scary USA doing it, that shit won't fly. You will have no allies. You will be facing embargoes not only from the countries you hit, but also from every other country that's fed up with your bullshit. Economy goes bye bye.

I never said the USA would go at it alone. USA just happens to be the biggest influence. If all first world countries agreed to nationalize pharma to avoid a pandemic, the less developed countries, the ones that would take in these vultures-- aren't going to stand up to that. They would be forced to play along, just like they already are with many other issues.

The scary stories about economic collapse are just that. Stories to keep people in line, just like when they told us the sky would fall if we didn't let the banks steal all the money.

[Draakonitian Mars]

You don't get how this works, do you?

If you try to nationalise a major industry, companies will head elsewhere. There are lots of companies. They will go to lots of different countries. The nationalisation won't be particularly popular anyway, and placing embargoes on countries just because they happen to be home to formerly American companies will be even less popular. Given the number of companies out there, you'd have to be placing embargoes on anywhere from 30-100 countries. That shit won't fly. Doesn't matter that it's the big scary USA doing it, that shit won't fly. You will have no allies. You will be facing embargoes not only from the countries you hit, but also from every other country that's fed up with your bullshit. Economy goes bye bye.

I never said the USA would go at it alone. USA just happens to be the biggest influence. If all first world countries agreed to nationalize pharma to avoid a pandemic, the less developed countries, the ones that would take in these vultures-- aren't going to stand up to that. They would be forced to play along, just like they already are with many other issues.

The scary stories about economic collapse are just that. Stories to keep people in line, just like when they told us the sky would fall if we didn't let the banks steal all the money.

The day i see two people agreeing to what is the best color, will be the day i would think about the possibilities of several countries agreeing to something.

[New Stinkonia]

I never said the USA would go at it alone. USA just happens to be the biggest influence. If all first world countries agreed to nationalize pharma to avoid a pandemic, the less developed countries, the ones that would take in these vultures-- aren't going to stand up to that. They would be forced to play along, just like they already are with many other issues.

The scary stories about economic collapse are just that. Stories to keep people in line, just like when they told us the sky would fall if we didn't let the banks steal all the money.

The day i see two people agreeing to what is the best color, will be the day i would think about the possibilities of several countries agreeing to something.

That's a cute belief system. Probably one of the prayers of the vulture capitalist religion.

If people ever figure out how badly they're getting screwed by their bought governments, they will make it happen.

[New Aerios]

The day i see two people agreeing to what is the best color, will be the day i would think about the possibilities of several countries agreeing to something.

That's a cute belief system. Probably one of the prayers of the vulture capitalist religion.

If people ever figure out how badly they're getting screwed by their bought governments, they will make it happen.

Do you have anything useful to say, or are you just going to continue spewing edgy teen rhetoric?

[New Stinkonia]

That's a cute belief system. Probably one of the prayers of the vulture capitalist religion.

If people ever figure out how badly they're getting screwed by their bought governments, they will make it happen.

Do you have anything useful to say, or are you just going to continue spewing edgy teen rhetoric?

Just one thing: take your own advice.