Can humans "choose" religion?

[Australian rePublic]

Yes, Iam aware of that. However, the practices, rituals, ceramonies etc. Are completely different.
To some extent the beliefes are different. For example, us Orthodox Christians believe in Saints etc. Whilst Anglicans don't, but I won't even get in to that.

For example, if you were to walk into an Orthodox Church in Australia and an Anglican Church in Australia, you would see significant differences in dress code, decor, etc. You would even think that they're different religions

Anglicanism does have saints.

The Anglican church split with the Catholic for largely political reasons. Differences between it and the Orthodox result from the Great Schism between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and aesthetic differences are probably cultural in origin.

Nope, not cultural. Catholics, for example, have statues, us Orthodox don't (something to do with paganism)

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

People choose their religion constantly. That's why you see people born in a Christian setting become Buddhist or Muslim or choose not to have religious beliefs. I just wouldn't compare that with sexual orientation or gender. I don't think it's the same.

[Sun Wukong]

Explain to me how I would do that?

I do not currently believe in the supremacy of Marduk. How do I go about choosing to believe that such a being exists, and rules the universe?

What's Marduk?

*sigh*

Even if it wasn't clear from the context, it's not like google couldn't have cleared this up for you in five seconds.

[Anollasia]

What's Marduk?

*sigh*

Even if it wasn't clear from the context, it's not like google couldn't have cleared this up for you in five seconds.

Well, sorree.

[Sun Wukong]

*sigh*

Even if it wasn't clear from the context, it's not like google couldn't have cleared this up for you in five seconds.

Well, sorree.

[Conscentia]

Nope, not cultural. Catholics, for example, have statues, us Orthodox don't (something to do with paganism)

If the reasons are the result of doctrinal differences, then you can't choose between the sects because you'd have to be convinced by the doctrines of one sect over the other, which is involuntary.

[Conscentia]

People choose their religion constantly. That's why you see people born in a Christian setting become Buddhist or Muslim or choose not to have religious beliefs. I just wouldn't compare that with sexual orientation or gender. I don't think it's the same.

Those changes aren't chosen. Belief is involuntary.

Of course you have a choice, if you didn't wouldn't you have to be born with it?

Mother: is it a boy or a girl?
Doctor: it's a girl?
Mother:what religion are they?
Doctor: Shinto
Mother:Ok, hey Albert! We need another kid, this one isn't Christian!

Being religious is like having a crush on a girl. You do not have a choice. Either you like the person or you do not. You can find out more about the person or you may get attracted to something else... but you can't consciously just suddenly decide to stop liking a person. It's not a conscious choice. You can have a conscious choice to find out more but you can't just flip a switch and turn it on or off at will. (By infected mushroom)

You do have a choice, if my parents let say, are Jewish, and I find Judaism confusing and stupid, but I find Taoism to be the answer to everything, I would switch to Taoism. You aren't born with a single crush, you FIND a crush. Maybe your parents like this one girl but you are annoyed by her and find her unattractive, you aren't going to have a crush on her. It's the same with religion.

You didn't CHOOSE to find Judaism ''stupid'' and ''confusing.''

You were exposed to facts, experiences and your intuition and reason that inevitably led you to those conclusions.

ONCE you found Judaism to be ''stupid'' and ''confusing,'' there was no way you could continue to believe in it. You no longer have the choice to continue believing in it at that point.

You can continue to conform, but belief is no longer an option.

You don't choose what you find rational or irational, what you find believable or unbelievable... you can choose to expose yourself to more or less facts, to more or less experiences, and your reasoning process may change as you mature and go through different phases of life.

But your belief or non-belief in any given system is not a choice. It is the outcome of that equation.

[Salandriagado]

Religion, absolutely. Belief, no.

Given that religion is dependent on belief, and belief is not a choice, religion cannot be a choice.

No it isn't. Religion is based entirely on acceptance of a dogmatic system. Belief is an entirely perpendicular axis.

[Conscentia]

Given that religion is dependent on belief, and belief is not a choice, religion cannot be a choice.

No it isn't. Religion is based entirely on acceptance of a dogmatic system. Belief is an entirely perpendicular axis.

Acceptance of said dogma is based on faith - ie. whether or not you believe it. It's not perpendicular - it's synonymous.

[Australian rePublic]

Nope, not cultural. Catholics, for example, have statues, us Orthodox don't (something to do with paganism)

If the reasons are the result of doctrinal differences, then you can't choose between the sects because you'd have to be convinced by the doctrines of one sect over the other, which is involuntary.

To a certain extent yes, but many people move to new Age Christian sects from traditional ones, not because of doctrines and beliefes, but because of rituals etc. Because they don't know/care about the doctorial differences. That's one way of choosing a religion

[Conscentia]

If the reasons are the result of doctrinal differences, then you can't choose between the sects because you'd have to be convinced by the doctrines of one sect over the other, which is involuntary.

To a certain extent yes, but many people move to new Age Christian sects from traditional ones, not because of doctrines and beliefes, but because of rituals etc. Because they don't know/care about the doctorial differences. That's one way of choosing a religion

They aren't choosing religion though. They're moving to other sects for reasons unrelated to religion.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

People choose their religion constantly. That's why you see people born in a Christian setting become Buddhist or Muslim or choose not to have religious beliefs. I just wouldn't compare that with sexual orientation or gender. I don't think it's the same.

Those changes aren't chosen. Belief is involuntary.

You didn't CHOOSE to find Judaism ''stupid'' and ''confusing.''

You were exposed to facts, experiences and your intuition and reason that inevitably led you to those conclusions.

ONCE you found Judaism to be ''stupid'' and ''confusing,'' there was no way you could continue to believe in it. You no longer have the choice to continue believing in it at that point.

You can continue to conform, but belief is no longer an option.

You don't choose what you find rational or irational, what you find believable or unbelievable... you can choose to expose yourself to more or less facts, to more or less experiences, and your reasoning process may change as you mature and go through different phases of life.

But your belief or non-belief in any given system is not a choice. It is the outcome of that equation.

Follow the conclusion of this down to its end. What you're pretty much espousing is that we do not have a choice. In anything. Because the function of exposing yourself to greater amounts of things is, in itself, a result of a previous equation. As such, since all results are the result of previous equations, there are no choices to be made. Period.

I don't accept that. Experience says otherwise.

[Senyosu]

Those changes aren't chosen. Belief is involuntary.

Follow the conclusion of this down to its end. What you're pretty much espousing is that we do not have a choice. In anything. Because the function of exposing yourself to greater amounts of things is, in itself, a result of a previous equation. As such, since all results are the result of previous equations, there are no choices to be made. Period.

I don't accept that. Experience says otherwise.

It's a rekinddling of the nature versus nurture debate. To a certain degree, most people don't really have much choice in choosing a faith, due to the cultural memes being instilled at a young age--and in most cases, it doesn't go away. There is some talk of genes predetermining how likely one is to acquire and believe in religion as well.

Also see: The Righteous Mind by Jonathon Haidt

[Conscentia]

Follow the conclusion of this down to its end. What you're pretty much espousing is that we do not have a choice. In anything. Because the function of exposing yourself to greater amounts of things is, in itself, a result of a previous equation. As such, since all results are the result of previous equations, there are no choices to be made. Period.

Correct.

I don't accept that. Experience says otherwise.

Your experience is an illusion. Specifically, it's the illusion of control.

[Senyosu]

Follow the conclusion of this down to its end. What you're pretty much espousing is that we do not have a choice. In anything. Because the function of exposing yourself to greater amounts of things is, in itself, a result of a previous equation. As such, since all results are the result of previous equations, there are no choices to be made. Period.

Correct.

I don't accept that. Experience says otherwise.

Your experience is an illusion. Specifically, it's the illusion of control.

Dawkins and Stanovich loves everyone.

[Greater-London]

Well you can choose your religion. I suppose if your raised in a religious family the "choice" element is slightly taken away as your raised into it from an early age and surrounded by believers. This probably means your less likely to question you faith/abandon it and as you've had it all your life you didn't "choose" it either.

However you can't argue these people don't have a choice providing they can leave at any time and are able discover other faiths or abandon it completely. Nor do people raised in religious families necessarily have their choices limited.

[Veceria]

Of course they can, otherwise there wouldn't be Christians turning Muslim and vice-versa.

[Communist Volkstrad]

People choose religions all the time, or choose not to have one.

[Sun Wukong]

People choose religions all the time, or choose not to have one.

I can perfectly well understand how people choose to practice religion all the time, or choose to say that they have one, but I've never understood how it is people are allegedly able to choose what they believe.

It's never been a choice for me. I couldn't choose to start believing in the divinity of Marduk any more then I could choose to believe the planet Jupiter is made of ice cream.

[Communist Volkstrad]

People choose religions all the time, or choose not to have one.

I can perfectly well understand how people choose to practice religion all the time, or choose to say that they have one, but I've never understood how it is people are allegedly able to choose what they believe.

It's never been a choice for me. I couldn't choose to start believing in the divinity of Marduk any more then I could choose to believe the planet Jupiter is made of ice cream.

You might be unable to believe in something else, but lots of other people can do it, or choose to drop faith entirely
Most atheists are brought up religious to some degree, but end up discarding it.

[Sun Wukong]

I can perfectly well understand how people choose to practice religion all the time, or choose to say that they have one, but I've never understood how it is people are allegedly able to choose what they believe.

It's never been a choice for me. I couldn't choose to start believing in the divinity of Marduk any more then I could choose to believe the planet Jupiter is made of ice cream.

You might be unable to believe in something else, but lots of other people can do it, or choose to drop faith entirely
Most atheists are brought up religious to some degree, but end up discarding it.

Which doesn't mean that "chose" to stop believing. That's sort of the whole point of this thread.

[Communist Volkstrad]

You might be unable to believe in something else, but lots of other people can do it, or choose to drop faith entirely
Most atheists are brought up religious to some degree, but end up discarding it.

Which doesn't mean that "chose" to stop believing. That's sort of the whole point of this thread.

They do choose, for example, I did.
Dropping faith after being brought up religious, is choosing to stop believing it.

[Apparatchikstan]

Yes, of course. Especially if you are fortunate enough to live in a society with a passive background influence, then your life experience will make such things as politcal ideology, gender roles, as well as religious participation fluid despite your upbringing.
Naturally, it follows that the more dogmatically aligned the culture is, the more difficult it becomes to make these choices for yourself. Yet ultimately, as long as you are self-conscious, the choice is always yours, even if it is driven to subconscious depths. Freedom is an extremity of conscious will, and slavery is the opposite extremity of submissiveness.

[Intelectual Atheists]

I don't think they have much of a choice there, they will probably be influenced by their parents and other people when they are young and unable to make much of a choice for themselfs yet.

[Sun Wukong]

Which doesn't mean that "chose" to stop believing. That's sort of the whole point of this thread.

They do choose, for example, I did.
Dropping faith after being brought up religious, is choosing to stop believing it.

Well since you don't seem to be getting what I'm saying, let me spell it out for you:
I didn't ever go, "Well, I've lived my whole life believing in the reality of an omnipotent, celestial Alec Guinness, but just for a change of pace, today I'm going to decide that reality isn't the way I thought it was, and in fact it's some other way."

That would be choosing a belief. It would also be a bit insane. But that's not what actually happens (I hope.) What actually happens is more like this:
"Hmm... you know that belief in an omnipotent, celestial Alec Guinness that I've held on to since childhood? I've realized that I don't really feel strongly that that is true anymore. In fact, I rather doubt that it is true. In fact, upon reflection, I realize I don't believe it."

And that's not a choice. That's a realization.