A real progressive tax that favours the poor.

[Brillnuck]

The current progressive tax system in the Netherlands does not benefit the poor.
We have unemployment benefits which makes working for people with low education not worth it.

The current Dutch tax system is this.
33% for the lowest income.
45% for the middle income.
52% for everything above 52000 euro.

My idea would work better for the economy :

10% until 10000 euro.
20% for middle incomes.
25% for high incomes.

To fund the difference i would raise taxes on cigarettes and other unhealthy stuff and i would replace the tax benefits or mortgages to the same subsidy for everyone.

NSG your opinion?

Agreed. But I think cigarettes should be banned. It's just too unhealthy. As for junk food, just add a minor tax.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

We don't need the military I don't expect the Germans to come again.

We have subsidies for foreign communities which does not help integration.

Please tell me how a military is unneccessary when someone really attacks us.

USA would help us.

[Sinas]

I personally don't believe the economy would double due to this but as there's no way to test, I'll drop it, regardless how would you prove that military and subsidies are not beneficial.

We don't need the military I don't expect the Germans to come again.

We have subsidies for foreign communities which does not help integration.

Do those subsidies plus the military make up over 50% of the Dutch government spending? I don't think so but feel free to prove me wrong. and again you don't need to tell me your opinion prove that there not beneficial.

[Kilobugya]

I'm all for a progressive tax, but it should be much more progressive (not just 3 levels), and the higher levels should be much higher - up to 90% or more, on the very rich. And the progressive income tax should be the main state income, with a much lower sales tax. I'm fine with taxes on unhealthy stuff (like tobacco, alcohol and cannabis) but it should be moderate, only tax on polluting stuff (such as gas for cars) should be high, but compensated by a cheap public transport network.

[Laerod]

Please tell me how a military is unneccessary when someone really attacks us.

USA would help us.

So your solution is for the Netherlands to become a national defense welfare leech?

[Republic of Coldwater]

We don't need the military I don't expect the Germans to come again.

We have subsidies for foreign communities which does not help integration.

Please tell me how a military is unneccessary when someone really attacks us.

liberalize your gun laws and help form militias.

[Chestaan]

Please do explain why a sales tax is superior to an income tax.

Because it's a tax on cosumption and not on income.
A income tax hurts the poor and middle class more than a sales tax.

Utter bullshit. The lower your income, the higher the proportion of that income that you will spend. A progressive income tax with an exemption for those earning under a certain amount, say €20,000, is vastly superior and more efficient. Sales taxes are regressive by their very nature and always hurt the poorest in a disproportionate way.

[Tubbsalot]

In the Netherland the minimum benefit is 800 euro and with other benefits like housing and healthcare it can climb up to 1300 euro.

...right, so, pretty much nothing, then.

And the problem is...? How does this not benefit the poor? How is this not a progressive tax? Why does it need changing?

Because working is not beneficial enough here.

Isn't it? Because on 1300 euros per year I'm surprised people don't starve to death. Presumably there are other support programs for very low-income people. Aren't people motivated enough by the prospect of having housing and food which aren't total shit?

And why would this work? How does this favour the poor vs. the current system? What's the fundamental difference? Why would this work better "for the economy"?

They would have more money in their pockets so they would spend more and pay more VAT so the lose in tax income would be low.

That's not correct, but let's assume that it was for a moment; if you're not losing tax income, you haven't actually lowered taxes. You've just swapped to a different type of taxes, namely VAT, which is regressive and harms the poor far more than the rich.

So you'd implement regressive taxes to fuck over the poor, basically. And of course, you haven't considered that you'd need to boost taxes on cigarettes by about 4000%, which would cause consumption to drop to zero, so you wouldn't make any money on it. Income taxes raise a huge amount of revenue. Good luck finding it anywhere else.

We have a VAT which earns more income than income tax.

Then if you're concerned about the plight of the poor, you'd be better off abolishing VAT and boosting income taxes, wouldn't you? (Naturally, there are problems associated with raising income tax beyond those levels, so that's not necessarily practical. Certainly better than the opposite, though.)

[Laerod]

Please tell me how a military is unneccessary when someone really attacks us.

liberalize your gun laws and help form militias.

No one wants a repeat of early 20s Germany or modern day Ukraine.

[West Aurelia]

Please tell me how a military is unneccessary when someone really attacks us.

liberalize your gun laws and help form militias.

How will militias be more effective than a well-trained, organized military?

[Tubbsalot]

What about

0% for low
0% for Middle
0% for High

and 8.25% for Sales, it would work much better than some insane income tax.

I think the idea is to improve the tax system, so I'm afraid that's not a very useful suggestion.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

In the Netherland the minimum benefit is 800 euro and with other benefits like housing and healthcare it can climb up to 1300 euro.

...right, so, pretty much nothing, then.

Because working is not beneficial enough here.

Isn't it? Because on 1300 euros per year I'm surprised people don't starve to death. Presumably there are other support programs for very low-income people. Aren't people motivated enough by the prospect of having housing and food which aren't total shit?

They would have more money in their pockets so they would spend more and pay more VAT so the lose in tax income would be low.

That's not correct, but let's assume that it was for a moment; if you're not losing tax income, you haven't actually lowered taxes. You've just swapped to a different type of taxes, namely VAT, which is regressive and harms the poor far more than the rich.

We have a VAT which earns more income than income tax.

Then if you're concerned about the plight of the poor, you'd be better off abolishing VAT and boosting income taxes, wouldn't you? (Naturally, there are problems associated with raising income tax beyond those levels, so that's not necessarily practical. Certainly better than the opposite, though.)

it's 1300 each month not each year.

[Dollaria]

I can agree in principle but what accommodations do you suggest for over halving everyone's tax rate? Should the government halve everything it does.

No the economy will grow and we would cut on military and subsidies if they are proven not to be beneficial.

The Netherlands have a military?

[Empire of Vlissingen]

No the economy will grow and we would cut on military and subsidies if they are proven not to be beneficial.

The Netherlands have a military?

Yes but we sold most tanks and f-16s last year.

[Tubbsalot]

it's 1300 each month not each year.

I know. Rent costs a fair bit each month, and then there's food and services, and entertainment is a need as well, unless you want to develop serious mental issues. Hopefully you don't need a car. At like $15,000 a year, that's not easy.

Anyway, since you haven't replied to anything else, I'll just assume you concede those points.

[Laerod]

it's 1300 each month not each year.

"Up to". It's getting rather obvious that you've never had to support yourself. I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands, but 800 to 1300 a month is going to be barely enough in Germany.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

it's 1300 each month not each year.

"Up to". It's getting rather obvious that you've never had to support yourself. I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands, but 800 to 1300 a month is going to be barely enough in Germany.

My mom has support and she works without paying taxes.

[Laerod]

"Up to". It's getting rather obvious that you've never had to support yourself. I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands, but 800 to 1300 a month is going to be barely enough in Germany.

My mom has support and she works without paying taxes.

Here's a suggestion: Wait until you've moved out and paid for rent, utilities, transportation, food, and entertainment before you even consider whether the payments are too high.

[Skinia]

A progressive wealth tax for people and corporations which takes inflation into account would be ideal in my opinion.

[Olivaero]

No one should be taxed before they reach a certain amount in earnings. Is it completely possible to live of 9'000 Euro per anum in the Netherlands? It'd be tricky to do the same in the UK. That being said 25% is ridiculously low for high earners.


And then you raise other taxes that hurt poor people more than rich people! so pretty bad idea in total.

What about:

25% for low incomes
35% for medium incomes
45% for high incomes

I'm not a Economist or really of any profession remotely related to setting tax rates. But The current tax situation seems fine to me. The economic reforms I'd purpose would be of a significantly more structural nature than just taxing people. But when it comes to tax policy just out of practicality there should be a tax free amount which is enough to live off at the bottom of the scale, the government should never be in the business of taking bread out of peoples mouths.

[Sinas]

Do those subsidies plus the military make up over 50% of the Dutch government spending? I don't think so but feel free to prove me wrong. and again you don't need to tell me your opinion prove that there not beneficial.

Since my question was ignored I'm going to give a source for the amount the Netherlands spends on their military, (now I'll admit as I know little about the Netherlands aside from history) but it seems like there is no way your government spends over half it's money on it's military and the subsidies you mentioned)

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.ZS

So according to this your government spent around 3% of it's tax money on the military in 2012 which I admit isn't right now but I feel I shouldn't have to look hard to prove something obvious, which is that there's no way the subsidies you mentioned together with military spending could ever reach even a quarter of money your government spends, so your unless your economy instantly doubled it's likely your country would almost fall apart due to slashing half of everything the government spends.
Unless I've misunderstood you in some way in which case again feel free to prove me wrong.

[Colbert Super PAC]

How about we simply abolish those unmoral taxes?

[Vissegaard]

Phoa. Get regressive taxes, support the economy!

[Colbert Super PAC]

The current progressive tax system in the Netherlands does not benefit the poor.
We have unemployment benefits which makes working for people with low education not worth it.

The current Dutch tax system is this.
33% for the lowest income.
45% for the middle income.
52% for everything above 52000 euro.

My idea would work better for the economy :

10% until 10000 euro.
20% for middle incomes.
25% for high incomes.

To fund the difference i would raise taxes on cigarettes and other unhealthy stuff and i would replace the tax benefits or mortgages to the same subsidy for everyone.

NSG your opinion?

A progressive tax punishes success!

[Republic of Coldwater]

liberalize your gun laws and help form militias.

How will militias be more effective than a well-trained, organized military?

Militias aren't, but that doesn't mean they can't win wars or fight off an offensive. Indeed militias were integral in the revolutionary war and even today, poorly equipped militias in the Middle East can hold out against US Troops if they plan their tactics right.