Ireland considers torture case against Britain

[Chucky Arla]

There is new evidence, this is not called justice but a miscarriage of justice

There has been no new information released that would cause the ECHR to change their original ruling that the five techniques were " inhuman and degrading treatment" and not torture.

You're a member of the ECHR?

Welcome your honour.

[Manisdog]

There is new evidence, this is not called justice but a miscarriage of justice

There has been no new information released that would cause the ECHR to change their original ruling that the five techniques were " inhuman and degrading treatment" and not torture.

I am just going to copy paste the last part of the article


Human rights groups The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre have both backed Amnesty International’s challenge to the Irish Government to seek the reopening of the case. “These recently discovered documents suggest that the British Government withheld vital medical, legal and policy documents from the European Court of Human Rights and the Irish Government in respect of the case taken to Europe by the Irish state alleging torture,” they said in a joint statement.
“We have requested that the Irish Government seeks a reopening of the case of Ireland v UK given the discovery of these facts which may lead to the European Court of Human Rights revising its judgment.”

[Shove Piggy Shove]

There has been no new information released that would cause the ECHR to change their original ruling that the five techniques were " inhuman and degrading treatment" and not torture.

You're a member of the ECHR?

Welcome your honour.

As it stands, the only information that has been released to the public is a letter that shows that the policy was authorised by the Secretary for Defence, Peter Carrington.

I am happy to concede that there might be information which has not yet been released which would be sufficient to challenge the original ruling, although I think it unlikely, but my point still stands.

There has been no new information released that would cause the ECHR to change their original ruling that the five techniques were " inhuman and degrading treatment" and not torture.

I am just going to copy paste the last part of the article


Human rights groups The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre have both backed Amnesty International’s challenge to the Irish Government to seek the reopening of the case. “These recently discovered documents suggest that the British Government withheld vital medical, legal and policy documents from the European Court of Human Rights and the Irish Government in respect of the case taken to Europe by the Irish state alleging torture,” they said in a joint statement.
“We have requested that the Irish Government seeks a reopening of the case of Ireland v UK given the discovery of these facts which may lead to the European Court of Human Rights revising its judgment.”

Which is a statement from The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre, it is not actually new information in and of itself.

[Manisdog]

You're a member of the ECHR?

Welcome your honour.

As it stands, the only information that has been released to the public is a letter that shows that the policy was authorised by the Secretary for Defence, Peter Carrington.

I am happy to concede that there might be information which has not yet been released which would be sufficient to challenge the original ruling, although I think it unlikely, but my point still stands.

I am just going to copy paste the last part of the article


Human rights groups The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre have both backed Amnesty International’s challenge to the Irish Government to seek the reopening of the case. “These recently discovered documents suggest that the British Government withheld vital medical, legal and policy documents from the European Court of Human Rights and the Irish Government in respect of the case taken to Europe by the Irish state alleging torture,” they said in a joint statement.
“We have requested that the Irish Government seeks a reopening of the case of Ireland v UK given the discovery of these facts which may lead to the European Court of Human Rights revising its judgment.”

Which is a statement from The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre, it is not actually new information in and of itself.

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

[Vassenor]

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

And yet the statement makes no disclosure of what the evidence is or what its provenance is.

[Manisdog]

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

And yet the statement makes no disclosure of what the evidence is or what its provenance is.

Reopen the case and see where it goes..

Let it happen, I would believe AI on this, there has to be something to hide so the British, don't want this opened

[Shove Piggy Shove]

As it stands, the only information that has been released to the public is a letter that shows that the policy was authorised by the Secretary for Defence, Peter Carrington.

I am happy to concede that there might be information which has not yet been released which would be sufficient to challenge the original ruling, although I think it unlikely, but my point still stands.



Which is a statement from The Committee On The Administration Of Justice and the Pat Finucane Centre, it is not actually new information in and of itself.

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

Where have I said that Britain has done nothing wrong, or indicated that I would be afraid to reopen the case?

Operation Demetrius and the policy of internment (and all they entailed) were appalling. They have long since been scrapped, and there is no indication that they (or something similar) are ever likely to be reintroduced.

With regards to re-opening the case:

I've yet to see any new information which would lead to the ECHR changing the initial ruling.

If there is any, then I'm all for it being made public and being taken before the court once more; but, given the nature of the original ruling, I have a hard time believing that the ruling would be changed unless there was evidence of additional torture techniques being used which were not originally taken into account.

Reopen the case and see where it goes..

Let it happen, I would believe AI on this, there has to be something to hide so the British, don't want this opened

Would you also like to provide a source for the UK Government having stated that they do not want this to be reopened? Or perhaps you could furnish us with a reason why Amnesty International wouldn't just release the information if the Irish Government do not pursue this in the ECHR?

[Vassenor]

Reopen the case and see where it goes..

Let it happen, I would believe AI on this, there has to be something to hide so the British, don't want this opened

And if the ECHR decides the case isn't worth reopening?

[Manisdog]

You might want to add rest of the colonies too, seriously the word angrez in hindi which means english can be used in an offensive manner, Britain does not really fair well in the justice department. I agree that Ireland was Britain's gravest casualty, the history of the occupation of Ireland depicts man's exploitation of man, and the sheer perverse ingenuity of mankind, when we studied european history, most of it was about Ireland.

Yes, and Paki can be used as an insult in English.

It doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with being of that nationality, it means that the person using it in a derogatory fashion is a racist.

Calling an englishmen angrez is a normal think to do, but calling an Indian angrez is insulting, its the word for it, just wanted to show how it even effected language, don't reply to this, it would be wrong to continue this convo

[Hirota]

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

Please get your facts correct before spouting hyperbole.
There is no burden on the British to reopen this case - it is down to the Irish government to request reopening the case handled by European Court of Human Rights. There is a request for the British to do their own, separate, independent enquiry.
This is in the source in the very first post.

[Manisdog]

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

Where have I said that Britain has done nothing wrong, or indicated that I would be afraid to reopen the case?

Operation Demetrius and the policy of internment (and all they entailed) were appalling. They have long since been scrapped, and there is no indication that they (or something similar) are ever likely to be reintroduced.

With regards to re-opening the case:

I've yet to see any new information which would lead to the ECHR changing the initial ruling.

If there is any, then I'm all for it being made public and being taken before the court once more; but, given the nature of the original ruling, I have a hard time believing that the ruling would be changed unless there was evidence of additional torture techniques being used which were not originally taken into account.

Reopen the case and see where it goes..

Let it happen, I would believe AI on this, there has to be something to hide so the British, don't want this opened

Would you also like to provide a source for the UK Government having stated that they do not want this to be reopened? Or perhaps you could furnish us with a reason why Amnesty International wouldn't just release the information if the Irish Government do not pursue this in the ECHR?

I certainly would not know why AI would not realease the information, you need to ask them. the Irish government is looking into the matter according to the op, As of now there is no comment availible from the UK government but considering the cowards they are, they would just not want this to be reopened

[Vassenor]

I certainly would not know why AI would not realease the information, you need to ask them. the Irish government is looking into the matter according to the op, As of now there is no comment availible from the UK government but considering the cowards they are, they would just not want this to be reopened

Please stop treating your inferences as fact without supporting evidence.

[Manisdog]

THe statement states there is new evidence, let's reopen the god damm case and let's see where does Britain go on this one, if you claim that Britain has done nothing wrong, why are the British so afraid to reopen the case ?

Please get your facts correct before spouting hyperbole.
There is no burden on the British to reopen this case - it is down to the Irish government to request reopening the case handled by European Court of Human Rights. There is a request for the British to do their own, separate, independent enquiry.
This is in the source in the very first post.

If an respectable organization says there is evidence against a not so respectable organization known as the British government, that means we need to atleast give them an opportunity to hear them out, open the case

[Vassenor]

If an respectable organization says there is evidence against a not so respectable organization known as the British government, that means we need to atleast give them an opportunity to hear them out, open the case

And once again, I ask. What if the ECHR decides it is not worth reopening?

[Manisdog]

If an respectable organization says there is evidence against a not so respectable organization known as the British government, that means we need to atleast give them an opportunity to hear them out, open the case

And once again, I ask. What if the ECHR decides it is not worth reopening?

We shall cross the bridge when we come to it, personally I would like them to pay for once.

[Shove Piggy Shove]

Where have I said that Britain has done nothing wrong, or indicated that I would be afraid to reopen the case?

Operation Demetrius and the policy of internment (and all they entailed) were appalling. They have long since been scrapped, and there is no indication that they (or something similar) are ever likely to be reintroduced.

With regards to re-opening the case:





Would you also like to provide a source for the UK Government having stated that they do not want this to be reopened? Or perhaps you could furnish us with a reason why Amnesty International wouldn't just release the information if the Irish Government do not pursue this in the ECHR?

I certainly would not know why AI would not realease the information, you need to ask them. the Irish government is looking into the matter according to the op, As of now there is no comment availible from the UK government but considering the cowards they are, they would just not want this to be reopened

So your source for the UK Government not wanting to reopen the case is your own bigotry. Good to know.

[Risottia]

Please get your facts correct before spouting hyperbole.
There is no burden on the British to reopen this case - it is down to the Irish government to request reopening the case handled by European Court of Human Rights. There is a request for the British to do their own, separate, independent enquiry.
This is in the source in the very first post.

If an respectable organization says there is evidence against a not so respectable organization known as the British government, that means we need to atleast give them an opportunity to hear them out, open the case

The respectable organisation being the Irish government? Respectable as in allowing and covering up mass gravings for slave labourers and mass child rape?

Anyway, no, you don't get special rights at the ECHR for being more or less "respectable", considering how "respect" is entirely subjective.

[Manisdog]

I certainly would not know why AI would not realease the information, you need to ask them. the Irish government is looking into the matter according to the op, As of now there is no comment availible from the UK government but considering the cowards they are, they would just not want this to be reopened

So your source for the UK Government not wanting to reopen the case is your own bigotry. Good to know.

There is no comment from the British Government, I would wait till they comment on this, unlikely considering we are talking about the British government

[Risottia]

And once again, I ask. What if the ECHR decides it is not worth reopening?

We shall cross the bridge when we come to it, personally I would like them to pay for once.

Are you suggesting an attack on Britain or on Strasbourg?

Also, Britain has already been found guilty of a breach of art.3 in the occasion by the appeal. So, case is rather closed.

[Manisdog]

If an respectable organization says there is evidence against a not so respectable organization known as the British government, that means we need to atleast give them an opportunity to hear them out, open the case

The respectable organisation being the Irish government? Respectable as in allowing and covering up mass gravings for slave labourers and mass child rape?

Anyway, no, you don't get special rights at the ECHR for being more or less "respectable", considering how "respect" is entirely subjective.

Give these people justice, why are you against reopening the case, are you scared something might just come out of the closet ?

[Vassenor]

Give these people justice, why are you against reopening the case, are you scared something might just come out of the closet ?

So we've moved onto "you're either with us or with the terrorists" logic.

[Manisdog]

Give these people justice, why are you against reopening the case, are you scared something might just come out of the closet ?

So we've moved onto "you're either with us or with the terrorists" logic.

No I am continuing into the why are you so scared of reopening this case logic ?

[Shove Piggy Shove]

So we've moved onto "you're either with us or with the terrorists" logic.

No I am continuing into the why are you so scared of reopening this case logic ?

Who exactly is scared of reopening the case?

[Chucky Arla]

Give these people justice, why are you against reopening the case, are you scared something might just come out of the closet ?

So we've moved onto "you're either with us or with the terrorists" logic.

Ironic given that's how a lot of people ended up in internment

[Manisdog]

No I am continuing into the why are you so scared of reopening this case logic ?

Who exactly is scared of reopening the case?

Are my British friends on this forum scared that ugly things might come out of the closet and damage the already damaged reputation of Britain and the British empire in the eyes of world.