Transgender woman correctly buried as man?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

You can become the dirt that I will use to build my monster struck arena in an environmentally sensitive area.

I think a certain someone wants to be bashed

[Vashta Nerada]

Why would I need to prove myself right if your the one saying I'm wrong? Surely if you know I'm wrong, you can prove that. Yet, seeing as have you haven't, and you have yet to say what I need to prove. The fool above said I've been dodging requests to provide sources, yet I've responded to virtually every question I've read. I'm not surfing through 26 pages of nonsense to answer two requests I may have missed. If you want an answer, burden for what source you want falls on you, not me. Giving me vague answers will be returned with equally vague sources.

I've already explained to you why you have to prove yourself correct. But you're just going to be intellectually dishonest and ignore what I say when you can't figure out anyway to address it, aren't you?

And I already told you that if you want something proven, tell me what it is. Saying I'm not providing the source to a phantom statement of yours is asinine, and saying I'm being "intellectually dishonest" because I won't prove a statement I made to one of your many protracted transgender babble is equally asinine.

I used the proper pronoun. Him. He. His. There we go. Proper pronouns.

Nope. She was a woman, and is entitled to be referred to by the proper pronouns, those pronouns being she/her/hers. Anything else is blatantly disrespectful, transphobic, trolling, and generally the calling card of people with no empathy or sense of basic human decency.

Too bad. I referred to him as the family and the death certificate have stated. Like I said before, take it up with the family if you've got an issue with the legal aspects of the problem as you see it. It would be dishonest to go against the wishes of the family just to honor a dead man.

[Anglo-California]

You can become the dirt that I will use to build my monster struck arena in an environmentally sensitive area.

I think a certain someone wants to be bashed

Bashed?

[Utceforp]

Pfffft, burials. I demand to be given a Viking's funeral after death.

I want to become fertilizer. '-'

I want to donate my body to science. I'm not going to be using it, so there's no sense in letting it go to waste.

I demand to be buried as a hamster so I can frolic around in the Great Hamster Wheel of the 11th Hell.

If somebody actually asked for that to happen, I'd be fine with it. Why does it matter how people are buried, as long as it isn't "pour my ashes on my enemies in their sleep"? Though I'm not sure how you would be "buried as a hamster".

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Bashed?

The caption says bullying, but I think it's not a word to be used lightly.

[The Alma Mater]

Too bad. I referred to him as the family and the death certificate have stated. Like I said before, take it up with the family if you've got an issue with the legal aspects of the problem as you see it. It would be dishonest to go against the wishes of the family just to honor a dead man.

Hmm, I must have missed that part of the thread, but it is an intruiging legal question. If someone legally changes their gender, does a deathcertificate that says something else have any legal standing ?
If this has been answered already I shall stop being lazy and actually read the thread

[Vashta Nerada]

Too bad. I referred to him as the family and the death certificate have stated. Like I said before, take it up with the family if you've got an issue with the legal aspects of the problem as you see it. It would be dishonest to go against the wishes of the family just to honor a dead man.

Hmm, I must have missed that part of the thread, but it is an intruiging legal question. If someone legally changes their gender, does a deathcertificate that says something else have any legal standing ?
If this has been answered already I shall stop being lazy and actually read the thread

Well clearly that wasn't the case because the family, the church, and the funeral home all bury the transgender individual as a man. So that's three groups that have all confirmed the person as a man. Therefore I refer to him as such using male pronouns.

[Utceforp]

You can become the dirt that I will use to build my monster struck arena in an environmentally sensitive area.

I think a certain someone wants to be bashed

Can I just take a moment to point out how weird that dog is? Seriously, it's distracting.

[The Alma Mater]

Hmm, I must have missed that part of the thread, but it is an intruiging legal question. If someone legally changes their gender, does a deathcertificate that says something else have any legal standing ?
If this has been answered already I shall stop being lazy and actually read the thread

Well clearly that wasn't the case because the family, the church, and the funeral home all bury the transgender individual as a man. So that's three groups that have all confirmed the person as a man. Therefore I refer to him as such using male pronouns.

I am unconviced. The person in question DID change their name officially to Jennifer after all; why would they not go all the way ?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Can I just take a moment to point out how weird that dog is? Seriously, it's distracting.

That's the point, looks as if the dog mocked us.

[Utceforp]

Hmm, I must have missed that part of the thread, but it is an intruiging legal question. If someone legally changes their gender, does a deathcertificate that says something else have any legal standing ?
If this has been answered already I shall stop being lazy and actually read the thread

Well clearly that wasn't the case because the family, the church, and the funeral home all bury the transgender individual as a man. So that's three groups that have all confirmed the person as a man. Therefore I refer to him as such using male pronouns.

Didn't the person legally change their gender though?

[Vashta Nerada]

Well clearly that wasn't the case because the family, the church, and the funeral home all bury the transgender individual as a man. So that's three groups that have all confirmed the person as a man. Therefore I refer to him as such using male pronouns.

Didn't the person legally change their gender though?

Legally yes. But the fact that you have three groups bury him as a man and the fact that the courts haven't stepped in despite the media circus around the affair confirms it.

[Utceforp]

Didn't the person legally change their gender though?

Legally yes. But the fact that you have three groups bury him as a man and the fact that the courts haven't stepped in despite the media circus around the affair confirms it.

I think the law recognizing her as female is more significant than a church, a funeral home and her family calling her male.

[Liriena]

I did. Just now.

From what? It certainly can't be you or anyone else. I'm certainly not running from a computer I use in the safety of my own home. So I can't possibly be running away.

From this discussion. Why else would you want to end this thread?

Good for you. It'd be nice if you had the decency to refer to her by the proper pronouns, though.

I used the proper pronoun. Him. He. His. There we go. Proper pronouns.

No.

Look, I don't care if you disagree with us on transgender issues, but you could at least have the decency to be polite and refer to people by their preferred pronouns. There's many transgender people on NS, and while it might not be a big deal to you, their gender identity is a big deal to them, and the world is already a pretty frightening place for most transgender people without some anonymous pedant smugly refusing them even the basic courtesy of acknowleding the pronouns they identify with.

Words can hurt, and quite deeply at that.

So?

Yeah, you have the right to express your opinion. Nobody has told you otherwise, least of all me. What's the point of that sentence?

You said that I do get to "run away", and I'm telling you right now I can go anywhere on this site I wish too, regardless of your misguided sense of moral superiority.

"Misguided sense of moral superiority."

Heh, good joke, coming from you.

That being said... It was a figure of speech.

You can, but not without consequence. Namely, being perceived as craven, on top of proudly transphobic.

I'm not afraid of a man who wanted to be a woman. His dead and gone. I'm not going to hid in a corner and cry because transsexuals are moving in the neighborhood. If you've got an issue with that, tough.

I'm happy the existence of transgender people doesn't make you pee in your pants, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

With that said... The person in question didn't "want" to be a woman. She identified as a woman. If you're going to spew transphobic nonsense, at least use accurate vocabulary... and the correct pronouns.

I'm not the one who needs to do his research, my sweet, sweet Vashta Nerada. After all, you are the one who has demonstrated a remarkable lack of understanding of gender identity issues.

But, hey, if you want to be pedantic, you have every right to be that way.

According to your limited understanding of me.

Ironic doesn't even begin to describe that sentence.

Please, don't insult my intelligence because I refuse to bow to your inability to use Google. I'm not going to hold your hand and show you every single article you demand because your either to inept to too lazy to do so yourself. I choose not to look up all of the information because I assume that a mature adult such as yourself would understandable find your way across the internet to fact-check the very statements I'm making.

Please... don't. The burden of proof is on you, and that rant of yours won't change that.

See, I do consider myself a mature young adult... and as such I know when the burden of proof is on me, and by your own admission, it's not. You are the one making claims that need corroboration. You can't bait me by attacking me and insulting my intelligence.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, then you should make the effort to prove me wrong.

No. You should make the effort to prove yourself right in the first place.

[Vashta Nerada]

Legally yes. But the fact that you have three groups bury him as a man and the fact that the courts haven't stepped in despite the media circus around the affair confirms it.

I think the law recognizing her as female is more significant than a church, a funeral home and her family calling her male.

Then why hasn't the law stepped in? The death certificate is a legal document, and therefore the fact that the document states the person in the ground in a man, that is more than enough to seal the deal. And the family's opinion matters because it was their relative they had to bury, not your's. When you have to bury a child, feel free to dictate to others what gender they should put on the certificate.

[Liriena]

Didn't the person legally change their gender though?

Legally yes. But the fact that you have three groups bury him as a man and the fact that the courts haven't stepped in despite the media circus around the affair confirms it.

Say, what credentials did those three groups have that made them fit to determine the legitimacy of this woman's gender identity?

And while we are at it, what credentials do you have?

[Temujinn]

EDIT: The OP has been edited for necessary corrections. The OP's apologies for the original, and any misunderstandings that may (will) arise.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 55600.html

A transgender woman who died in Florida was buried open casket as a man, in a suit with a man's haircut, and given the obituary of a man, listing the bank she worked at and the Church she went to as a child. It used the pronoun "him" for her.

Is that right?

A funeral is a ceremony to gather in love, honor, and respect for the people we cared about most. It doesn't have to be reduced to just a chance for us to be reminded that we are going to judgment by God and it is wrong for boys to wear panties. Honoring life was what the ceremony should have been about, an act of love and loss that should be about the deceased and their wishes.

The obituary was technically correct but managed to omit the vital facts, rather like a legal response. Her transgender status, or even the fact that she was a woman in the eyes of the person who knew her best (herself), was omitted. Her parents (or whoever made this decision) apparently would be ashamed by everyone knowing she was beautiful brave woman who made one of the most painful but profoundly truthful transformations that a person can undergo.

If they had buried her as a woman that would have been sacrificing their own wants just because they loved her, and that's what Jesus taught.

Anyway, that's the topic of discussion and my opinion. There is an obnoxious prick in a loud jacket watching this news story about this transgender woman with me as I write this, and he's telling me that we should "road trip to Florida, fill the trunk of the caddy with a shovel, a nice dress, and 200 kg of post-mortem Maybelline".

Btw, if anybody lives in Florida and would take a little money to put some makeup and hair products and leave them at a specific location at a specific time once a year, telegram.

No poll. Just please read before you respond.

She/He/insert your preferred pronoun here is dead, they couldve of buried the corpse as an eggplant, gave it well wishes on its journey to space turnip land and then covered teh casket in cow manure and not one bit of it wouldve mattered to the corpse.

Funerals, and viewings are where we PRETEND to honor the dead when what we are doing is simply giving ourselves closure, they are about us the living, not the dead.

So can we not be offended for the Corpse's feelings, because regardless of genital selection there are in point of fact real people who loved this person and now no longer have them because someone is actually dead. Or you know, fuck humanity and lets make it our job to be upset since there is no one who can be justifiably upset. Always have to find a petty problem to make ourselves feel good.


The Dead have all their shit settled.

[New Frenco Empire]

EDIT: The OP has been edited for necessary corrections. The OP's apologies for the original, and any misunderstandings that may (will) arise.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 55600.html

A transgender woman who died in Florida was buried open casket as a man, in a suit with a man's haircut, and given the obituary of a man, listing the bank she worked at and the Church she went to as a child. It used the pronoun "him" for her.

Is that right?

A funeral is a ceremony to gather in love, honor, and respect for the people we cared about most. It doesn't have to be reduced to just a chance for us to be reminded that we are going to judgment by God and it is wrong for boys to wear panties. Honoring life was what the ceremony should have been about, an act of love and loss that should be about the deceased and their wishes.

The obituary was technically correct but managed to omit the vital facts, rather like a legal response. Her transgender status, or even the fact that she was a woman in the eyes of the person who knew her best (herself), was omitted. Her parents (or whoever made this decision) apparently would be ashamed by everyone knowing she was beautiful brave woman who made one of the most painful but profoundly truthful transformations that a person can undergo.

If they had buried her as a woman that would have been sacrificing their own wants just because they loved her, and that's what Jesus taught.

Anyway, that's the topic of discussion and my opinion. There is an obnoxious prick in a loud jacket watching this news story about this transgender woman with me as I write this, and he's telling me that we should "road trip to Florida, fill the trunk of the caddy with a shovel, a nice dress, and 200 kg of post-mortem Maybelline".

Btw, if anybody lives in Florida and would take a little money to put some makeup and hair products and leave them at a specific location at a specific time once a year, telegram.

No poll. Just please read before you respond.

She/He/insert your preferred pronoun here is dead, they couldve of buried the corpse as an eggplant, gave it well wishes on its journey to space turnip land and then covered teh casket in cow manure and not one bit of it wouldve mattered to the corpse.

Funerals, and viewings are where we PRETEND to honor the dead when what we are doing is simply giving ourselves closure, they are about us the living, not the dead.

So can we not be offended for the Corpse's feelings, because regardless of genital selection there are in point of fact real people who loved this person and now no longer have them because someone is actually dead. Or you know, fuck humanity and lets make it our job to be upset since there is no one who can be justifiably upset. Always have to find a petty problem to make ourselves feel good.


The Dead have all their shit settled.

It seems extremely fucking pointless to "honor" someone who hasn't existed for a while.

[Liriena]

I think the law recognizing her as female is more significant than a church, a funeral home and her family calling her male.

Then why hasn't the law stepped in?

Maybe because there is no law against misgendering dead people in their obituaries?

The death certificate is a legal document, and therefore the fact that the document states the person in the ground in a man, that is more than enough to seal the deal.

Not really. It would depend on what conditions the death certificate was drafted.

And the family's opinion matters because it was their relative they had to bury, not your's.

The family has the right to determine her gender because it's her family.

Circular logic at its finest.

[Anglo-California]

Bashed?

The caption says bullying, but I think it's not a word to be used lightly.

You think I'm a bully?

[Vashta Nerada]

From what? It certainly can't be you or anyone else. I'm certainly not running from a computer I use in the safety of my own home. So I can't possibly be running away.

From this discussion. Why else would you want to end this thread?

Because at the time, there were no comments and devolution from the main topic was suspected. If you think ending a thread amounts to running away, that says more about you than anyone else.

I used the proper pronoun. Him. He. His. There we go. Proper pronouns.

No.

Look, I don't care if you disagree with us on transgender issues, but you could at least have the decency to be polite and refer to people by their preferred pronouns. There's many transgender people on NS, and while it might not be a big deal to you, their gender identity is a big deal to them, and the world is already a pretty frightening place for most transgender people without some anonymous pedant smugly refusing them even the basic courtesy of acknowleding the pronouns they identify with.

Words can hurt, and quite deeply at that.

Pedophiles prefer to have sex with kids. Rapists prefer to have non-consensual sex. The KKK prefers a white America. yes, I know. Improper comparisons, but good enough for the point I'm about to make. Just because someone prefers something to go a certain way, doesn't mean people have to do it. It's a frightening world for black people too. But most of us don't whine about it until we start getting shot. The world is hard enough without some equally smug person making demands from the safety of their bedroom. And if words can hurt, then people need to grow a backbone and get over it. There are real issues going on in the world right now. Jumping off a bridge because someone won't accept you is rather pitiful.

You said that I do get to "run away", and I'm telling you right now I can go anywhere on this site I wish too, regardless of your misguided sense of moral superiority.

"Misguided sense of moral superiority."

Heh, good joke, coming from you.

That being said... It was a figure of speech.

I never claimed the moral high ground. You on the other hand have done that from the beginning.

I'm not afraid of a man who wanted to be a woman. His dead and gone. I'm not going to hid in a corner and cry because transsexuals are moving in the neighborhood. If you've got an issue with that, tough.

I'm happy the existence of transgender people doesn't make you pee in your pants, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

With that said... The person in question didn't "want" to be a woman. She identified as a woman. If you're going to spew transphobic nonsense, at least use accurate vocabulary... and the correct pronouns.

Last I checked, a phobia is an irrational fear of something or someone. You've called me transphobic, and I've stated that's a bunch of nonsense. It's a silly word for a silly issue that in the wide scope of things is ridiculous. I've used the proper pronouns, and whether or not you like it I don't care. There's a world of people who think your own use of the vocabulary is barbaric, and would rather speak with other like-mind people such as themselves.

According to your limited understanding of me.

Ironic doesn't even begin to describe that sentence.

Shame.

Please, don't insult my intelligence because I refuse to bow to your inability to use Google. I'm not going to hold your hand and show you every single article you demand because your either to inept to too lazy to do so yourself. I choose not to look up all of the information because I assume that a mature adult such as yourself would understandable find your way across the internet to fact-check the very statements I'm making.

Please... don't. The burden of proof is on you, and that rant of yours won't change that.

See, I do consider myself a mature young adult... and as such I know when the burden of proof is on me, and by your own admission, it's not. You are the one making claims that need corroboration. You can't bait me by attacking me and insulting my intelligence.

And I have yet to see a post stating what I'm suppose to be proving. I already gave proof on the lack of nations accepting homosexuality, and linked to the number of transsexuals in the United States. But I receive these demands for additional sources to claims I've made that no one has yet to bring up. If you want a source, you have to tell me what I said that needs fact-checking. Until you give me a statement I've made, I won't be providing any sources.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, then you should make the effort to prove me wrong.

No. You should make the effort to prove yourself right in the first place.

I already made the effort. Any additional effort either needs to be done on your side, or you give me a claim I've made that requires a source. If you can provide it, don't demand it. So get over it.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

You think I'm a bully?

No, I said I'd bully you if you continued being a little pestering.

[Anglo-California]

You think I'm a bully?

No, I said I'd bully you if you continued being a little pestering.

I'm a bit too big to fit in a locker...

[Utceforp]

Then why hasn't the law stepped in?

Maybe because there is no law against misgendering dead people in their obituaries?

Unfortunately.

[Vashta Nerada]

Legally yes. But the fact that you have three groups bury him as a man and the fact that the courts haven't stepped in despite the media circus around the affair confirms it.

Say, what credentials did those three groups have that made them fit to determine the legitimacy of this woman's gender identity?

And while we are at it, what credentials do you have?

Let's see, we have the family that raised the man, the church that provided the community for the man, and the funeral home that buries hundreds of people a year, making the latter quite qualified to determine the gender at death. Likewise, I have no credentials. I have brain and common sense. The guy was born a man. No amount of alteration will change that. Until a transgender "woman" is able to have kids naturally, I refuse to accept them as a woman, and I have every legal right to do so.