10 Hours Walking Through NYC as a Woman: catcalling

[Tubbsalot]

Actually, it did happen to a guy, but the question is, was he harassed?

Individually, one person hitting on someone else doesn't qualify as harassment, unless it's completely inept. But if every day is filled with random dude after random dude giving you "compliments" about your body, maybe it does. And obviously if you enjoy it, it's not harassment, but the default should be to avoid making people uncomfortable.

[Central Slavia]

Most were compliments (and damn, is she hot XD), some were harrassment though. Like the guy following her around and repeatedly trying to engage in conversation she gave no fucks about, or the one who started shouting (DAMN something).

[Atlanticatia]

You've never lived in a city, apparently. Smiling in acknowledgement doesn't happen; saying hello to strangers is a clear sign of mental illness.

Anyway. As a lot of people have pointed out, a lot of it was probably dead time, but that misses the point - if it was a guy in the video, there wouldn't be any material whatsoever. Not even people saying "hi," I would guess. It's much more uncomfortable to be hello'd when it's a lead-in to hitting on you.

Actually, it did happen to a guy, but the question is, was he harassed?

No one said it doesn't happen to men. Some of that is harassment, though.

However, it is a much more rare occurrence and it happens to every woman everyday in urban environments, whereas it rarely happens to men, and blatantly-sexual catcalls almost never happen.

[Lordieth]

Actually, it did happen to a guy, but the question is, was he harassed?

Individually, one person hitting on someone else doesn't qualify as harassment, unless it's completely inept. But if every day is filled with random dude after random dude giving you "compliments" about your body, maybe it does. And obviously if you enjoy it, it's not harassment, but the default should be to avoid making people uncomfortable.

Yes, I agree distinctions can be drawn depending on the situation, and rightly so. Lest we end up at a point where we're not allowed to even greet people in the street in fear of having sexual harassment lawsuits filed against us.

One problem the video does highlight is social attitudes of what some people consider to be acceptable responses, and that should be the focus, rather than the sensationalist way in which this video was put together.

[Bari]

I have mixed feelings about the video. She clearly looks uncomfortable throughout, and some of the comments, as well as one man even walking beside her for some time makes for uncomfortable viewing. However, mixed within actual cases of invasion of personal space and harassment are perfectly acceptable greetings, and everything about this video feels a little staged. They've purposely picked a rather voluptuous participant for this..demonstration? So what does that say about them?

Also, she had to walk around for ten hours through busy streets in New York, and this is the best of what they could get. Some instances are simply of people saying "hello" and "how are you" as she walked by. Come on, now. There's harassment, and there's over-reacting.

I'm not saying there wasn't some harassment in the video, but it's been muddled in with people politely saying hello, and the woman looks generally uncomfortable throughout. Seeing as they were looking for situations to use to point their point across, I think the video sends out some horribly mixed messages.

In short, the video does highlight some serious concerns, but by mixing that in with some instances which clearly aren't harassment, smacks of an attempt to stir controversy.

I completely agree.

[MERIZoC]

"How are you this morning?"
"Have a nice evening."

The indignity of it all.

I'm obviously against any sort of harassment that occurs, but it really is dishonest to label those two phrases, and several others, as such.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Catcalling is annoying, but I feel like this is being presented in a way that exaggerates the severity of the problem.

To elaborate, I'm just going to copy part of what I posted in the other thread about this:

She was walking around for 10 hours.

Does it get annoying to have strangers hit on you when you're walking down the street? Yes. That was one reason I never wanted to live in East Boston, even though the rents are cheap there. (The other reason I didn't want to live there was because they don't have enough supermarkets in that part of the city.) Have I been hit on by random New Yorkers when I visited New York and was wandering around by myself? Yes. New Yorkers do that. New Yorkers also try to sell you stuff on the street regardless of your gender and occasionally try to strike up conversations about random things like some movie they liked.

That said, having 100 people talk to you in 10 hours -- in a crowded urban environment where you are constantly passing people on the street, in a city where the locals are known for being loud and pushy -- isn't that shocking. If it happened in 1 hour, that'd be different.

Getting hit on on the street is a real annoyance that women have to deal with. It's not some imaginary thing that feminists invented, but it's also not such a severe problem that we all need to carry guns and live in fear 24/7.

[Luremurg]

Heres a solution, anyone that harrases women should be castrated.
Thank me later NS.

[Tubbsalot]

I'm obviously against any sort of harassment that occurs, but it really is dishonest to label those two phrases, and several others, as such.

Just because a person is polite on the surface, and you wouldn't mind someone saying it to you in an isolated situation, doesn't mean it can't be unpleasant to a reasonable person given the right circumstances.

[The Flood]

Some of the comments were pretty innocent, but a lot of the others were messed up and some of those guys were really creepy / sketchy.

Tattoo guy was the worst.

[MERIZoC]

I'm obviously against any sort of harassment that occurs, but it really is dishonest to label those two phrases, and several others, as such.

Just because a person is polite on the surface, and you wouldn't mind someone saying it to you in an isolated situation, doesn't mean it can't be unpleasant to a reasonable person given the right circumstances.

It's a courtesy to say "hello" or "good afternoon" or something like that when you pass people on the street. I do it all the time. If she sees that as harassment, her skin is way too thin.

[Cetacea]

I dont know about people in NYC, but where I come from people say hello when you walk pass on the street, the polite thing is to at least smile in acknowledgement. Walking straight ahead without even looking sideways is rude possibly suspicious.

You've never lived in a city, apparently. Smiling in acknowledgement doesn't happen; saying hello to strangers is a clear sign of mental illness.

Anyway. As a lot of people have pointed out, a lot of it was probably dead time, but that misses the point - if it was a guy in the video, there wouldn't be any material whatsoever. Not even people saying "hi," I would guess. It's much more uncomfortable to be hello'd when it's a lead-in to hitting on you.

Its true, the biggest city I've lived in had a population of 1.5 million, so yes tiny by NY standards.
Still its sad that urbanisation has made a greeting into a threat and the base assumption is that any approach is going to be harrassment.

And I for one compliment both men and women

[The Flood]

Also, 2 things I'd be interested in - how was this filmed? Was there some other person with a camera on their butt walking in front of her the whole day?

Other thing, I'd like to know how many comments she received from women throughout the day, just for curiosity's sake.

[Atlanticatia]

Just because a person is polite on the surface, and you wouldn't mind someone saying it to you in an isolated situation, doesn't mean it can't be unpleasant to a reasonable person given the right circumstances.

It's a courtesy to say "hello" or "good afternoon" or something like that when you pass people on the street. I do it all the time. If she sees that as harassment, her skin is way too thin.

It depends if it's done in a threatening or aggressive manner though. Yelling, or saying it with sexual undertones is very different from just saying hi in passing on the street.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You've never lived in a city, apparently. Smiling in acknowledgement doesn't happen; saying hello to strangers is a clear sign of mental illness.

Anyway. As a lot of people have pointed out, a lot of it was probably dead time, but that misses the point - if it was a guy in the video, there wouldn't be any material whatsoever. Not even people saying "hi," I would guess. It's much more uncomfortable to be hello'd when it's a lead-in to hitting on you.

Its true, the biggest city I've lived in had a population of 1.5 million, so yes tiny by NY standards.
Still its sad that urbanisation has made a greeting into a threat and the base assumption is that any approach is going to be harrassment.

And I for one compliment both men and women

I never do. No eye contact, I just go about my business. That's how I act in the city. Coming to live in a semi rural area has been rather odd because people greet each other, even strangers. It's expected. I still don't, but it's what I see.

[MERIZoC]

It's a courtesy to say "hello" or "good afternoon" or something like that when you pass people on the street. I do it all the time. If she sees that as harassment, her skin is way too thin.

It depends if it's done in a threatening or aggressive manner though. Yelling, or saying it with sexual undertones is very different from just saying hi in passing on the street.

But it was completely friendly. It was just your normal "Have a good evening."

[Zairoon]

Yeah, most of those compliments wouldn't have been given to a man (or to a less attractive woman), but that doesn't make them harassment. C'mon, just ignore people who do this if you don't like it and enjoy being attractive.

That's not the solution, however. Some people prefer not to be harassed when they go out. And some of these "compliments" can feel more like harassment than anything else depending on how they're said and what body language accompanies them. It's not as easy as ignoring. Nope.

Why not? Tone or body language shouldn't make it any more difficult to just carry on walking.
A person's preference is irrelevant. I prefer not to have people shove pamphlets in my face every day but it doesn't matter because it's their right to do that. Sure, that's not as personal as catcalling, but it's just as easy to ignore.

[Sebastianbourg]

Heres a solution, anyone that harrases women should be castrated.
Thank me later NS.

Mate, what the fuck?!

[Planita]

Heres a solution, anyone that harrases women should be castrated.
Thank me later NS.

^^Does this count as trolling?

[Tubbsalot]

But it was completely friendly. It was just your normal "Have a good evening."

Ok, maybe it would help you to imagine being approached by someone handing out flyers for the Fascist Defence League. They've approached you before, and frequently get very insistent that you take their material. When it happened this time, even if they were completely polite, wouldn't you feel uncomfortable? Even if they just said "good evening" and passed you by, surely you wouldn't feel good about it - you'd think "thank god for that."

[MERIZoC]

Heres a solution, anyone that harrases women should be castrated.
Thank me later NS.

^^Does this count as trolling?

If you feel it is, report it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's not the solution, however. Some people prefer not to be harassed when they go out. And some of these "compliments" can feel more like harassment than anything else depending on how they're said and what body language accompanies them. It's not as easy as ignoring. Nope.

Why not? Tone or body language shouldn't make it any more difficult to just carry on walking.
A person's preference is irrelevant. I prefer not to have people shove pamphlets in my face every day but it doesn't matter because it's their right to do that. Sure, that's not as personal as catcalling, but it's just as easy to ignore.

Yes, it can, especially when done by groups of men, or women. And harassment is not a right. You don't have a right to harass and inconvenience others when it's clear they don't want that kind of attention directed at them.

I agree that the video is shaky but no, this is not something that is fixed by "just ignore it, enjoy being attractive".

[MERIZoC]

But it was completely friendly. It was just your normal "Have a good evening."

Ok, maybe it would help you to imagine being approached by someone handing out flyers for the Fascist Defence League. They've approached you before, and frequently get very insistent that you take their material. When it happened this time, even if they were completely polite, wouldn't you feel uncomfortable? Even if they just said "good evening" and passed you by, surely you wouldn't feel good about it - you'd think "thank god for that."

Are you really implying that the man who said "good evening" had harassed her on a previous occasion? Because I'm 99.99% sure that's not the case. And even if it was a "thank god" scenario, then it still isn't harassment—it's someone being polite.

[Page]

MRA Mark the Pigdog says: If she were a man she would have been stabbed to death and then forced to pay child support for a kid that isn't hers.

[Occupied Deutschland]

-Ten hours of walking around and she got less than two minutes of footage?
-Many of these seem to be simple greetings (In order of appearance: 'How are you doing today?', 'Hey what's up girl? How you doing?', 'How are you this morning?', 'Have a nice evening.', 'Hello. Good Morning. God bless you you have a good day alright', 'How you doing?', 'What's up miss?' 'How you doing?', ). I know greetings might be uncommon in NYC, but are they really so uncommon as to classify as harassment? I mean, even taking the most extreme view I can imagine only the second of those examples could come anywhere close to qualifying as some kind of come on.

Frankly, the inclusion of greetings alongside of legitimately weird instances (the man who followed her, the man who wanted her to talk and offered his number, the various obvious references to her ass and/or looks) is rather insulting and pretty stupid.