In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

[Vetalia]

And considering there really weren't any well known war criminals protected by the US government (because they were all living in Argentina), I doubt that the OP's idea for this thread wasn't raising legitimate concerns but making a thread purely to make the US look bad.

Most of those who were employed by the Nazis or who were members of the Nazi party that later became employed by the Americans were scientists, especially those involved in the V-2 projects. The Soviets did the same as well, acquiring a large number of German scientists, aircraft and technology to built fighter jets and rockets.

Obviously the Nazis the Soviets employed were slightly better than those employed by the Americans if memory serves us correct.

On the other hand though, the US did grant immunity to members of Unit 731 in exchange for knowledge about their biological weapons experiments. That was inexcusable...those guys made the Nazis look like saints in what they did to people in China.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Sources about thousands executed Jews in the USSR, please.

I believe the poster said persecution, not execution. There is a difference. Here's the dictionary definition of persecute. Here is execute.

As for persecution, anti-semitism was widespread in the Soviet Union, likely a hangover of pre-revolutionary times when the Tsars persecuted Jews.

One could also easily say that mere statistics mean thousands of Jews were exeucted in the USSR as well.
Jews being one of the component people's of the USSR who were killed.

Hell, if one limited themselves to Stalin's era they'd have a very large number of Jews from simple probability cropping up among all the fun deaths.

[Geilinor]

My opinion is equally simple. By actively employing not just Germans, but Nazis US of A marred themselves during the Cold War completely eliminating any claims for "moral" superiority and right to call anyone but themselves as the "Evil Empire".

Both sides claimed moral superiority in the Cold War, you can't pull this either way.

[Costa Fierro]

On the other hand though, the US did grant immunity to members of Unit 731 in exchange for knowledge about their biological weapons experiments. That was inexcusable...those guys made the Nazis look like saints in what they did to people in China.

Physicians were granted immunity. The Soviets tried the members but kept the documents and began building their own chemical weapons facilities as well as conducting human experimentation on interned members of the gulags.

[Saiwania]

It doesn't change the fact that the KGB was able to run circles around the CIA. So much for the Nazis being of use.

[Vetalia]

Physicians were granted immunity. The Soviets tried the members but kept the documents and began building their own chemical weapons facilities as well as conducting human experimentation on interned members of the gulags.

Which, of course in turn led to several biological accidents resulting in civilian deaths. All around a lousy situation.

[Vetalia]

It doesn't change the fact that the KGB was able to run circles around the CIA. So much for the Nazis being of use.

The history of the CIA vs. the KGB is like watching the Washington Generals play the Globetrotters.

[The New Sea Territory]

My opinion is equally simple. By actively employing not just Germans, but Nazis US of A marred themselves during the Cold War completely eliminating any claims for "moral" superiority and right to call anyone but themselves as the "Evil Empire".

Both sides claimed moral superiority in the Cold War, you can't pull this either way.

Yeah, both were bastardized forms of their claimed economic systems and both were imperialistic assholes. Neither were "good".

[Bubblekirby]

Yeah I'm sorry the US was indeed awful during the cold war but only one of the two super powers slaughtered it's own people by the millions. So like it or not we still had the moral high ground even though we weren't "good" ourselves

[Blazedtown]

And the KGB didn't?

[Lyttenburg]

The Soviets used Nazi scientists in their space program. Former Nazi scientists went to all the Allies.

Only the article is not about the scientists. I even mention it in my post, just for those fine people who do not read articles.

It's the cold war.

Whataboutism was a fucking driving point in the whole damn thing.

"what about Korea? what about china? what about Vietnam? what about Afghanistan? what about Angola? what about central america?"

That user is trying to answer me now. At present. Not dueing the Cold War.

Sources about thousands executed Jews in the USSR, please.

I believe the poster said persecution, not execution. There is a difference. Here's the dictionary definition of persecute. Here is execute.

As for persecution, anti-semitism was widespread in the Soviet Union, likely a hangover of pre-revolutionary times when the Tsars persecuted Jews.

I know the difference between the "execution" and "persecution". The user in question equaled USSR with Nazi Germany in regards of treatmet of the Jews.

[Infected Mushroom]

A recent article by "The New York Times" released yet another "secret of Polichinelle":

In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

At the height of the Cold War in the 1950s, law enforcement and intelligence leaders like J. Edgar Hoover at the F.B.I. and Allen Dulles at the C.I.A. aggressively recruited onetime Nazis of all ranks as secret, anti-Soviet “assets,” declassified records show. They believed the ex-Nazis’ intelligence value against the Russians outweighed what one official called “moral lapses” in their service to the Third Reich.

The agency hired one former SS officer as a spy in the 1950s, for instance, even after concluding he was probably guilty of “minor war crimes.”

And in 1994, a lawyer with the C.I.A. pressured prosecutors to drop an investigation into an ex-spy outside Boston implicated in the Nazis’ massacre of tens of thousands of Jews in Lithuania, according to a government official.

Speaking of that Lithuanian - this was one Aleksandras Lileikis. In 1939 - deputy head of the department of Lithuanian Security Police in Vilnius. After the accession of Lithuania in to the Soviet Union emigrated to Nazi Germany. In August 1941 - Head of Vilnius Lithuanian security police under Gestapo's jurisdiction. Americans, as confirmed in article, were fully aware of his involvement in the murder of 60,000 Lithuanian Jews. Nevertheless, in 1952-1955 Lileikis 'worked' in the staff (salaried) as CIA spy in the East Germany, then moved to the United States. He received citizenship in 1976. After 11 years of investigation (and despite all the tricks and bullshitery of the CIA) this bastard was stripped of the US citizenship in 1994 and deported to Lithuania... where the local authorities have found no evidence of his war crimes (despite the fact, that said evidence used in Lileikis persecution in the States were received from Lithuanian acrhives). He died peacefully in hospital in 2000 at the age of 92 years.

This "news" about just 1000 Nazis are only tip of the iceberg. Article comments that:

Evidence of the government’s links to Nazi spies began emerging publicly in the 1970s. But thousands of records from declassified files, Freedom of Information Act requests and other sources, together with interviews with scores of current and former government officials, show that the government’s recruitment of Nazis ran far deeper than previously known and that officials sought to conceal those ties for at least a half-century after the war.

In 1980, F.B.I. officials refused to tell even the Justice Department’s own Nazi hunters what they knew about 16 suspected Nazis living in the United States.

The bureau balked at a request from prosecutors for internal records on the Nazi suspects, memos show, because the 16 men had all worked as F.B.I. informants, providing leads on Communist “sympathizers.” Five of the men were still active informants.

And US hired not only suchs like Lileikis, who only committed "minor war crimes" (i.e. killed "only" 60 000 Jews):

Some spies for the United States had worked at the highest levels for the Nazis.

One SS officer, Otto von Bolschwing, was a mentor and top aide to Adolf Eichmann, architect of the “Final Solution,” and wrote policy papers on how to terrorize Jews.

Yet after the war, the C.I.A. not only hired him as a spy in Europe, but relocated him and his family to New York City in 1954, records show. The move was seen as a “a reward for his loyal postwar service and in view of the innocuousness of his [Nazi] party activities,” the agency wrote...

...When Israeli agents captured Eichmann in Argentina in 1960, Otto von Bolschwing went to the C.I.A. for help because he worried they might come after him, memos show.

Agency officials were worried as well that Mr. von Bolschwing might be named as Eichmann’s “collaborator and fellow conspirator and that the resulting publicity may prove embarrassing to the U.S.” a C.I.A. official wrote.

After two agents met with Mr. von Bolschwing in 1961, the agency assured him it would not disclose his ties to Eichmann, records show. He lived freely for another 20 years before prosecutors discovered his wartime role and prosecuted him. He agreed to give up his citizenship in 1981, dying months later.

USA used former Nazi's not only in the espionage work:

The Nazi spies performed a range of tasks for American agencies in the 1950s and 1960s, from the hazardous to the trivial, the documents show.

In Maryland, Army officials trained several Nazi officers in paramilitary warfare for a possible invasion of Russia. In Connecticut, the C.I.A. used an ex-Nazi guard to study Soviet-bloc postage stamps for hidden meanings.

In Virginia, a top adviser to Hitler gave classified briefings on Soviet affairs. And in Germany, SS officers infiltrated Russian-controlled zones, laying surveillance cables and monitoring trains.

So, the question is simple - sas the USA justified in the use of former Nazi personell against the USSR (Yes or No)? Why?

My opinion is equally simple. By actively employing not just Germans, but Nazis US of A marred themselves during the Cold War completely eliminating any claims for "moral" superiority and right to call anyone but themselves as the "Evil Empire".

America is a good player of the Game.

Its all about thrones and power. The USA did what it did to try and defeat the Soviets, that was all. Its like the Lannisters forgiving the Tyrells; they were needed and the alliance was beneficial. Let bygones be bygones.

[The New Sea Territory]

And the KGB didn't?

They did. ...but that's irrelevant to the conversation about the CIA.

[Infected Mushroom]

And the KGB didn't?

They did. ...but that's irrelevant to the conversation about the CIA.

Since the KGB was doing it, the USA would be naive not do it too.

[Lyttenburg]

America is good player of the Game.

Its all about thrones and power. The USA did what it did to try and defeat the Soviets, that was all. Its like the Lannisters forgiving the Tyrells; they were needed and the alliance was beneficial. Let bygones be bygones.

This is a real world - not a fantasy novel.

Should I understand it, that you consider justified the use of the Nazi war criminals against the USSR?

[Mirchusko]

Is anyone actually surprised by this? The US used anyone they could against the Soviets. Heck, the arms race was all about which side's German scientists were better. Of course we can look back and call it wrong, but this was the Cold War. Neither side was particularly concerned with ethics.

[Infected Mushroom]

America is good player of the Game.

Its all about thrones and power. The USA did what it did to try and defeat the Soviets, that was all. Its like the Lannisters forgiving the Tyrells; they were needed and the alliance was beneficial. Let bygones be bygones.

This is a real world - not a fantasy novel.

Should I understand it, that you consider justified the use of the Nazi war criminals against the USSR?

Innocent until proven guilty. They never went to trial.

[Central Slavia]

America is good player of the Game.

Its all about thrones and power. The USA did what it did to try and defeat the Soviets, that was all. Its like the Lannisters forgiving the Tyrells; they were needed and the alliance was beneficial. Let bygones be bygones.

This is a real world - not a fantasy novel.

Should I understand it, that you consider justified the use of the Nazi war criminals against the USSR?

If you are into realpolitik , like they seem to be, then real world and a fantasy novel look the same - it's all a game of chess with no concern for morality.

[Lyttenburg]

This is a real world - not a fantasy novel.

Should I understand it, that you consider justified the use of the Nazi war criminals against the USSR?

Innocent until proven guilty. They never went to trial.

Have you read the article? Or just quotes from it about Aleksandras Lileikis?

[Infected Mushroom]

This is a real world - not a fantasy novel.

Should I understand it, that you consider justified the use of the Nazi war criminals against the USSR?

If you are into realpolitik , like they seem to be, then real world and a fantasy novel look the same - it's all a game of chess with no concern for morality.

that's what i was getting at

[Infected Mushroom]

Innocent until proven guilty. They never went to trial.

Have you read the article? Or just quotes from it about Aleksandras Lileikis?

so if someone worked for Nazi Germany, he should never be employed again?

Isn't that political discrimination?

I'm sure they had to go through a job interview with the US government and were only hired after the employer decided they had skillsets that were sought after in the bureau...

[Lyttenburg]

so if someone worked for Nazi Germany, he should never be employed again?

Isn't that political discrimination?

I'm sure they had to go through a job interview with the US government and were only hired after the employer decided they had skillsets that were sought after in the bureau...

I'm sorry, is there anything preventing you from reading the article? Or it is just your way of dodging a question?

[Central Slavia]

Have you read the article? Or just quotes from it about Aleksandras Lileikis?

so if someone worked for Nazi Germany, he should never be employed again?

Isn't that political discrimination?

I'm sure they had to go through a job interview with the US government and were only hired after the employer decided they had skillsets that were sought after in the bureau...

If your job was basically a (militarily defeated) state-employed mass murderer, then political discrimination looks like the least thing you should be facing.
You know that this was actually a good deal of what the RAF did in western germany? Assassinating former war criminals that managed to still control western german society in corrupt Adenauer's regime.

[Infected Mushroom]

so if someone worked for Nazi Germany, he should never be employed again?

Isn't that political discrimination?

I'm sure they had to go through a job interview with the US government and were only hired after the employer decided they had skillsets that were sought after in the bureau...

If your job was basically a (militarily defeated) state-employed mass murderer, then political discrimination looks like the least thing you should be facing.
You know that this was actually a good deal of what the RAF did in western germany? Assassinating former war criminals that managed to still control western german society in corrupt Adenauer's regime.

What?

Assassinations... carried out by personnel of the Royal AIR FORCE? An Air Force performing assassinations?

That's so cool!

[Central Slavia]

If your job was basically a (militarily defeated) state-employed mass murderer, then political discrimination looks like the least thing you should be facing.
You know that this was actually a good deal of what the RAF did in western germany? Assassinating former war criminals that managed to still control western german society in corrupt Adenauer's regime.

What?

Assassinations... carried out by personnel of the Royal AIR FORCE? An Air Force performing assassinations?

That's so cool!

Nah
Rote Armee Fraktion.
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