In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

[Lyttenburg]

The Soviet Union exploited the existing state security apparatus when they were setting up the GDR and the various state security organs of that state. Josef Settnik (who was a Gestapo agent based at Auschwitz and participated directly in the gassings, selections, and torture at the camp), Hans Sommer, Erich Apel (who helped organized the slave labor and concentration camps for the V2 program, became the GDR's Chairman of the State Planning Commission) and Willy Läritz (who was selected partially because he had compromising information on other ex-Nazis, who were subsequently also blackmailed when he informed on them) are some of the people that were known to be recruited, mostly into the Stasi, but also as spies against the West in some cases (Hans Sommer was an example of one of these, interestingly the Americans had tried to recruit him in order to infiltrate a Nazi rat tunnel, and he worked with the Gehlen Organization for some time after the war). Most of these people I've listed here are from the Gestapo or Waffen-SS.

Some former Nazis were also drafted into the Volksarmee, in order to build up the GDR's defense capability. In fact, the majority of the higher ranked commissioned officers were Wehrmacht veterans, though this was also the situation in the West. In total, it is suspected around 174,928 former NSDAP members were allowed into the SED by 1951.

This is very long answer to my question:

Name me just one Nazi (not scientist - the article is dealing with StateSec types) with blood of several thousands on his hand recruited by the USSR.

Instead, you could just printed "No".

[Blazedtown]

The Soviet Union exploited the existing state security apparatus when they were setting up the GDR and the various state security organs of that state. Josef Settnik (who was a Gestapo agent based at Auschwitz and participated directly in the gassings, selections, and torture at the camp), Hans Sommer, Erich Apel (who helped organized the slave labor and concentration camps for the V2 program, became the GDR's Chairman of the State Planning Commission) and Willy Läritz (who was selected partially because he had compromising information on other ex-Nazis, who were subsequently also blackmailed when he informed on them) are some of the people that were known to be recruited, mostly into the Stasi, but also as spies against the West in some cases (Hans Sommer was an example of one of these, interestingly the Americans had tried to recruit him in order to infiltrate a Nazi rat tunnel, and he worked with the Gehlen Organization for some time after the war). Most of these people I've listed here are from the Gestapo or Waffen-SS.

Some former Nazis were also drafted into the Volksarmee, in order to build up the GDR's defense capability. In fact, the majority of the higher ranked commissioned officers were Wehrmacht veterans, though this was also the situation in the West. In total, it is suspected around 174,928 former NSDAP members were allowed into the SED by 1951.

This is very long answer to my question:

Name me just one Nazi (not scientist - the article is dealing with StateSec types) with blood of several thousands on his hand recruited by the USSR.

Instead, you could just printed "No".

Seriously? And people say I have no basis in reality.

[Benuty]

Maybe if you take off your Russian tinted goggles.

Sorry, don't vear any goggles or glasses. And you fail to answer my question.

Слив засчитан.

Could have been far better, and more insulting to be honest.

[Lemanrussland]

The Soviet Union exploited the existing state security apparatus when they were setting up the GDR and the various state security organs of that state. Josef Settnik (who was a Gestapo agent based at Auschwitz and participated directly in the gassings, selections, and torture at the camp), Hans Sommer, Erich Apel (who helped organized the slave labor and concentration camps for the V2 program, became the GDR's Chairman of the State Planning Commission) and Willy Läritz (who was selected partially because he had compromising information on other ex-Nazis, who were subsequently also blackmailed when he informed on them) are some of the people that were known to be recruited, mostly into the Stasi, but also as spies against the West in some cases (Hans Sommer was an example of one of these, interestingly the Americans had tried to recruit him in order to infiltrate a Nazi rat tunnel, and he worked with the Gehlen Organization for some time after the war). Most of these people I've listed here are from the Gestapo or Waffen-SS.

Some former Nazis were also drafted into the Volksarmee, in order to build up the GDR's defense capability. In fact, the majority of the higher ranked commissioned officers were Wehrmacht veterans, though this was also the situation in the West. In total, it is suspected around 174,928 former NSDAP members were allowed into the SED by 1951.

This is very long answer to my question:

Name me just one Nazi (not scientist - the article is dealing with StateSec types) with blood of several thousands on his hand recruited by the USSR.

Instead, you could just printed "No".

The GDR was a satellite state of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union set up the state security apparatus in the GDR, and at first the Stasi was not even an independent security organization, it was basically directly under the control of the Soviet Union (before the Stasi was created in 1950, Komissariat-5, which was basically an arm of the Soviet secret police apparatus, was the state security agency within the GDR). They gained nominal independence in 1957, but the overall working relationship between the Soviet security apparatus and the Stasi remained extremely close. The KGB retained liaisons in all of the regional Stasi offices, and within each directorate of the Stasi.

The Soviets were obviously alright with employing former Gestapo agents in order to keep tabs on and oppress the population in the GDR. It's not like the East Germans were doing this under their nose. Is it somehow "less bad" to use ex-Nazis and war criminals to police your puppet states than it is to use them to spy on your enemies?

[Oaledonia]

Here come the baseless assumptions that Lytt uses to victimize the East.
All "based" on self-asserted stereotypes that Lytt himself then instates as the American mindset when he, himself, is not American nor has lived in this nation for any length of time.

I'm not sure what you mean here. American history books do create an air of moral superiority. They do so by fibbing, "leaving out irrelevant facts" and outright lying.

Then you are reading one dumbed down history book.

[Socialist Tera]

No, The US aggression against the USSR and it's allies was unjustifiable.

[Oaledonia]

No, The US aggression against the USSR and it's allies was unjustifiable.

Aggression against the US and it's allies by the USSR was also unjustifiable.

[Lyttenburg]

The GDR was a satellite state of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union set up the state security apparatus in the GDR, and at first the Stasi was not even an independent security organization, it was basically directly under the control of the Soviet Union (before the Stasi was created in 1950, Komissariat-5, which was basically an arm of the Soviet secret police apparatus, was the state security agency within the GDR). They gained nominal independence in 1957, but the overall working relationship between the Soviet security apparatus and the Stasi remained extremely close. The KGB retained liaisons in all of the regional Stasi offices, and within each directorate of the Stasi.

The Soviets were obviously alright with employing former Gestapo agents in order to keep tabs on and oppress the population in the GDR. It's not like the East Germans were doing this under their nose. Is it somehow "less bad" to use ex-Nazis and war criminals to police your puppet states than it is to use them to spy on your enemies?

[Sigh]

Okay, lets try again.

Aleksandras Lileikis was responsible for the death of 60 000 Jews. Accrding to the article (which, I presume, people in this thread do not read):

Even so, the agency hired him in 1952 as a spy in East Germany — paying him $1,700 a year, plus two cartons of cigarettes a month — and cleared the way for him to immigrate to America four years later, records show.

Mr. Lileikis lived quietly for nearly 40 years, until prosecutors discovered his Nazi past and prepared to seek his deportation in 1994.

A war criminal on a payroll (quite considerable for its time) of the CIA, who was later allowed to emigrate to the USA with his family and granted citizenship afterwards. The key word here - "hired". He was directly employed by the CIA, USA intelligence service. You know, the country that is "bastion of democracy", "land of the knave and the home of the spree" (or is it another country?..)

Furthermore, the article states:

In all, the American military, the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and other agencies used at least 1,000 ex-Nazis and collaborators as spies and informants after the war, according to Richard Breitman, a Holocaust scholar at American University who was on a government-appointed team that declassified war-crime records.

The full tally of Nazis-turned-spies is probably much higher, said Norman Goda, a University of Florida historian on the declassification team, but many records remain classified even today, making a complete count impossible.

“U.S. agencies directly or indirectly hired numerous ex-Nazi police officials and East European collaborators who were manifestly guilty of war crimes,” he said. “Information was readily available that these were compromised men.”

...

Mr. Breitman said the morality of recruiting ex-Nazis was rarely considered. “This all stemmed from a kind of panic, a fear that the Communists were terribly powerful and we had so few assets,” he said.

Efforts to conceal those ties spanned decades.

And the only thing you can offer me is some far fetched logical equilibristic. There is a fine distinction between what the USA did (directly employed war criminals as if they were "normal" human begins) and what GDR (despite all your wiggling - not the USSR) did. Speaking about some of the names you've casually dropped as "evidence" against "Soviets", lets take a close rlook at them!

Hans Sommer:

After the war, Sommer was captured by the Americans, who sought to employ him to infiltrate a Nazi ratline formed around Frenchman Charles Lescat, whom Sommer met in Madrid just before his capture. He was moved to Camp King, Oberursel, after convincing the Americans that such an attempt would be unsuccessful. From Camp King he was deported to France to stand trial before a military court, which sentenced him to two years detention. He settled in Germany afterwards.

Between 1950 and 1953 he found himself working for the Gehlen Organization (GO), the unofficial West German intelligence organization. Unemployed in 1953, Sommer began to spy for the East German Stasi, handing over far reaching details on his former West German employer

What a twist!

Erich Apel - was a rocket scientist (and von Braun co-worker) who was quite involuntary "employed" in the Soviet "sharaga" from 1946 to 1952. As I said - we are not talking about scientists here.

On the one hand we have former Nazi StateSec personnel (including Eichmann's best bud) living in relative comfort and luxury in the "beating heart of the Western democracy" and loaning their skills for a hefty paycheck - and on the other blackmailed into submission, often good as dead, former Nazis "working" for the Stasi. Not USSR.

Still can't see a difference?

Now, will somebody provide me a real example of "Soviets did it too!"?

[Lemanrussland]

The GDR was a satellite state of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union set up the state security apparatus in the GDR, and at first the Stasi was not even an independent security organization, it was basically directly under the control of the Soviet Union (before the Stasi was created in 1950, Komissariat-5, which was basically an arm of the Soviet secret police apparatus, was the state security agency within the GDR). They gained nominal independence in 1957, but the overall working relationship between the Soviet security apparatus and the Stasi remained extremely close. The KGB retained liaisons in all of the regional Stasi offices, and within each directorate of the Stasi.

The Soviets were obviously alright with employing former Gestapo agents in order to keep tabs on and oppress the population in the GDR. It's not like the East Germans were doing this under their nose. Is it somehow "less bad" to use ex-Nazis and war criminals to police your puppet states than it is to use them to spy on your enemies?

[Sigh]

Okay, lets try again.

Aleksandras Lileikis was responsible for the death of 60 000 Jews. Accrding to the article (which, I presume, people in this thread do not read):

Even so, the agency hired him in 1952 as a spy in East Germany — paying him $1,700 a year, plus two cartons of cigarettes a month — and cleared the way for him to immigrate to America four years later, records show.

Mr. Lileikis lived quietly for nearly 40 years, until prosecutors discovered his Nazi past and prepared to seek his deportation in 1994.

A war criminal on a payroll (quite considerable for its time) of the CIA, who was later allowed to emigrate to the USA with his family and granted citizenship afterwards. The key word here - "hired". He was directly employed by the CIA, USA intelligence service. You know, the country that is "bastion of democracy", "land of the knave and the home of the spree" (or is it another country?..)

Furthermore, the article states:

In all, the American military, the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and other agencies used at least 1,000 ex-Nazis and collaborators as spies and informants after the war, according to Richard Breitman, a Holocaust scholar at American University who was on a government-appointed team that declassified war-crime records.

The full tally of Nazis-turned-spies is probably much higher, said Norman Goda, a University of Florida historian on the declassification team, but many records remain classified even today, making a complete count impossible.

“U.S. agencies directly or indirectly hired numerous ex-Nazi police officials and East European collaborators who were manifestly guilty of war crimes,” he said. “Information was readily available that these were compromised men.”

...

Mr. Breitman said the morality of recruiting ex-Nazis was rarely considered. “This all stemmed from a kind of panic, a fear that the Communists were terribly powerful and we had so few assets,” he said.

Efforts to conceal those ties spanned decades.

And the only thing you can offer me is some far fetched logical equilibristic. There is a fine distinction between what the USA did (directly employed war criminals as if they were "normal" human begins) and what GDR (despite all your wiggling - not the USSR) did. Speaking about some of the names you've casually dropped as "evidence" against "Soviets", lets take a close rlook at them!

Hans Sommer:

After the war, Sommer was captured by the Americans, who sought to employ him to infiltrate a Nazi ratline formed around Frenchman Charles Lescat, whom Sommer met in Madrid just before his capture. He was moved to Camp King, Oberursel, after convincing the Americans that such an attempt would be unsuccessful. From Camp King he was deported to France to stand trial before a military court, which sentenced him to two years detention. He settled in Germany afterwards.

Between 1950 and 1953 he found himself working for the Gehlen Organization (GO), the unofficial West German intelligence organization. Unemployed in 1953, Sommer began to spy for the East German Stasi, handing over far reaching details on his former West German employer

What a twist!

Erich Apel - was a rocket scientist (and von Braun co-worker) who was quite involuntary "employed" in the Soviet "sharaga" from 1946 to 1952. As I said - we are not talking about scientists here.

On the one hand we have former Nazi StateSec personnel (including Eichmann's best bud) living in relative comfort and luxury in the "beating heart of the Western democracy" and loaning their skills for a hefty paycheck - and on the other blackmailed into submission, often good as dead, former Nazis "working" for the Stasi. Not USSR.

Still can't see a difference?

Now, will somebody provide me a real example of "Soviets did it too!"?

1) "What a twist!"
No, not really, considering that I already mentioned that in the "very long" post I made. Maybe you should have read more closely.
2) "Erich Apel was a rocket scientist"
Yes, and one who was complicit in the war crimes surrounding the V2 program. He helped organize the slave labor used in support of that program, which resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.
3) "GDR is still not USSR!"
I'm sorry if you can't understand why that's a bullshit excuse, but I've already explained it. The Stasi and it's predecessors were very much an extension of Soviet intelligence (esp. before 1957). They might as well be on the KGB's or GRU's payroll.

[Apparatchikstan]

This isn't news, the US and Soviets both used the Nazi's after the war. We've known about this for a long time.

This part about "both". I'm asking for nth time - show me proof that "Soviets" employed Nazi war criminals as woas the case with the States.

Well golly gee, let's say the Soviet didn't recruit bloody handed Nazis. Considering that Russians suffered through a Nazi invasion, I personally wouldn't expect them to. However, considering Soviet history, not hiring ex-Nazi murderers does not add a feather to any alleged moral supiority cap. Neither does CIA coopting former Nazis for their own purposes make the US any more evil than it already allegedly is, nor make it more so than the Soviet. When all is said and done, neither side really has a right to any moral indignation towards the other. When people fight, bad things happen and values are compromised by all participants. Welcome to life, have a Coke and a smile.

[Lyttenburg]

This part about "both". I'm asking for nth time - show me proof that "Soviets" employed Nazi war criminals as woas the case with the States.

Well golly gee, let's say the Soviet didn't recruit bloody handed Nazis. Considering that Russians suffered through a Nazi invasion, I personally wouldn't expect them to. However, considering Soviet history, not hiring ex-Nazi murderers does not add a feather to any alleged moral supiority cap. Neither does CIA coopting former Nazis for their own purposes make the US any more evil than it already allegedly is, nor make it more so than the Soviet. When all is said and done, neither side really has a right to any moral indignation towards the other. When people fight, bad things happen and values are compromised by all participants. Welcome to life, have a Coke and a smile.

Not only Russians. Byelorussians lost 1/4 of their people "thanks" to Germans.

Really, this Western shtick of equating "Soviets" with "Russians" is so wrong and tiresome.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well golly gee, let's say the Soviet didn't recruit bloody handed Nazis. Considering that Russians suffered through a Nazi invasion, I personally wouldn't expect them to. However, considering Soviet history, not hiring ex-Nazi murderers does not add a feather to any alleged moral supiority cap. Neither does CIA coopting former Nazis for their own purposes make the US any more evil than it already allegedly is, nor make it more so than the Soviet. When all is said and done, neither side really has a right to any moral indignation towards the other. When people fight, bad things happen and values are compromised by all participants. Welcome to life, have a Coke and a smile.

Not only Russians. Byelorussians lost 1/4 of their people "thanks" to Germans.

Really, this Western shtick of equating "Soviets" with "Russians" is so wrong and tiresome.

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

[Lemanrussland]

Not only Russians. Byelorussians lost 1/4 of their people "thanks" to Germans.

Really, this Western shtick of equating "Soviets" with "Russians" is so wrong and tiresome.

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

The Soviet Union was comprised of several ethnic groups besides Russians. Russia (the RSFSR) dominated the group, but you also had Ukrainians (which Lyt left out of his objection for some reason), Belarussians, the three Baltic states, plus the Transcaucasian and Central Asian republics (Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Armenia etc.), and various minor ethnic groups scattered throughout.

[Condunum]

I'm not sure what you mean here. American history books do create an air of moral superiority. They do so by fibbing, "leaving out irrelevant facts" and outright lying.

Then you are reading one dumbed down history book.

Nah mate, you are. American history is bloody and full of unjustified state sanctioned murder.

I'm sure you didn't know about our early 20th century war with Russia... Or if you do, you probably think it was their fault. Oh, and how about those banana republics? Can't forget those. Remember Castro? We helped him then said fuck you. Remember Iran? We caused that. Because "HURRRR COMMIES"

[Lyttenburg]

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

You honestly don't know? What, for you, comrades Trotsky, Stalin, Sverdlov, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Dzierzhinkiy, Mikoyan, Beria, Kovpak, Malinovsky, Rokossovsky etc. were Russians?

[Condunum]

Not only Russians. Byelorussians lost 1/4 of their people "thanks" to Germans.

Really, this Western shtick of equating "Soviets" with "Russians" is so wrong and tiresome.

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

What was the difference between a Dutch and a Prussian?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

You honestly don't know? What, for you, comrades Trotsky, Stalin, Sverdlov, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Dzierzhinkiy, Mikoyan, Beria, Kovpak, Malinovsky, Rokossovsky etc. were Russians?

No, what I'm saying is this:

Russians were Soviets, but not all Soviets were Russians.

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Then you are reading one dumbed down history book.

Nah mate, you are. American history is bloody and full of unjustified state sanctioned murder.

I'm sure you didn't know about our early 20th century war with Russia... Or if you do, you probably think it was their fault. Oh, and how about those banana republics? Can't forget those. Remember Castro? We helped him then said fuck you. Remember Iran? We caused that. Because "HURRRR COMMIES"

Have you ever read history books specialized in a topic?

American historians are not the "white-washers" you think they are in major publications.

You only see this shit in School textbooks. Then again, welcome to yet another difference between college and high school.

[The balkens]

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

The Soviet Union was comprised of several ethnic groups besides Russians. Russia (the RSFSR) dominated the group, but you also had Ukrainians (which Lyt left out of his objection for some reason), Belarussians, the three Baltic states, plus the Transcaucasian and Central Asian republics (Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Armenia etc.), and various minor ethnic groups scattered throughout.

Oh those guys don't listen to mother russia anymore.

apparently they can rot, according to Russia. but that is another topic.

[Oaledonia]

Nah mate, you are.

Right, the one who is reading the book which doesn't have an American bias is reading the dumbed down version.
What a fucking joke.

[Oaledonia]

Nah mate, you are. American history is bloody and full of unjustified state sanctioned murder.

I'm sure you didn't know about our early 20th century war with Russia... Or if you do, you probably think it was their fault. Oh, and how about those banana republics? Can't forget those. Remember Castro? We helped him then said fuck you. Remember Iran? We caused that. Because "HURRRR COMMIES"

Have you ever read history books specialized in a topic?

American historians are not the "white-washers" you think they are in major publications.

You only see this shit in School textbooks. Then again, welcome to yet another difference between college and high school.

I mean, what the fuck do I know right? I've only been attending the best Community college in New Jersey for two years now with a Major in World History. I must be so stupid.

[Oaledonia]

I'm sure you didn't know about our early 20th century war with Russia...
Or if you do, you probably think it was their fault.

This shit? That was a political continuation of The Great War, in which the recognized (not rightful) government of Russia was still technically bound to the Triple Entente thanks to the provisional government that the Tzar created. Bluntly, I blame this on failed leadership among European alliances for not controlling their military elite, and on Militant Nationalism as a result of Colonial European Exceptionalism, not the Russians.

Oh, and how about those banana republics? Can't forget those.

I don't, because it was really a tragedy in American history.

Remember Castro? We helped him then said fuck you.

We? Are you American? Russian? British? Don't associate yourself with me.

Remember Iran? We caused that. Because "HURRRR COMMIES"

Remember this? We didn't cause it, that's for damn sure. Because "HURRR IMPERIALIST WEST"

[New Frenco Empire]

No, The US aggression against the USSR and it's allies was unjustifiable.

Aggression against the US and it's allies by the USSR was also unjustifiable.

No, no. The WESTERN IMPERIALIST PIGDOGS pushed around and bullied GLORIOUS MOTHER RUSSIA, so THE PEOPLES WORKERS PARADISE waged terrible war on CAPITALIST AMERICAN PIGS until NOBLE SOVIET STALIN'S REPUBLICS won the cold war!1

Not to mention, America hires big meany-head nazis ;_;

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Have you ever read history books specialized in a topic?

American historians are not the "white-washers" you think they are in major publications.

You only see this shit in School textbooks. Then again, welcome to yet another difference between college and high school.

I mean, what the fuck do I know right? I've only been attending the best Community college in New Jersey for two years now with a Major in World History. I must be so stupid.

History major here from the University of Texas at Dallas, my focus was U.S. Foreign Relations, so I sympathize

[Nervium]

What was the difference between a Soviet and a Russian back then, then?

What was the difference between a Dutch and a Prussian?

The Prussians never owned the Netherlands...

Maybe if you were to say "what was the difference between a Prussian and a Bavarian" that would've made more sense.

The answer would be Catholicism and lederhosen.