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In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

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Was the USA justified in the use of former Nazi personell against the USSR?

Yes
71
72%
No
28
28%
 
Total votes : 99

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Lyttenburg
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In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

Postby Lyttenburg » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:01 pm

A recent article by "The New York Times" released yet another "secret of Polichinelle":

In Cold War, U.S. Spy Agencies Used 1,000 Nazis

At the height of the Cold War in the 1950s, law enforcement and intelligence leaders like J. Edgar Hoover at the F.B.I. and Allen Dulles at the C.I.A. aggressively recruited onetime Nazis of all ranks as secret, anti-Soviet “assets,” declassified records show. They believed the ex-Nazis’ intelligence value against the Russians outweighed what one official called “moral lapses” in their service to the Third Reich.

The agency hired one former SS officer as a spy in the 1950s, for instance, even after concluding he was probably guilty of “minor war crimes.”

And in 1994, a lawyer with the C.I.A. pressured prosecutors to drop an investigation into an ex-spy outside Boston implicated in the Nazis’ massacre of tens of thousands of Jews in Lithuania, according to a government official.


Speaking of that Lithuanian - this was one Aleksandras Lileikis. In 1939 - deputy head of the department of Lithuanian Security Police in Vilnius. After the accession of Lithuania in to the Soviet Union emigrated to Nazi Germany. In August 1941 - Head of Vilnius Lithuanian security police under Gestapo's jurisdiction. Americans, as confirmed in article, were fully aware of his involvement in the murder of 60,000 Lithuanian Jews. Nevertheless, in 1952-1955 Lileikis 'worked' in the staff (salaried) as CIA spy in the East Germany, then moved to the United States. He received citizenship in 1976. After 11 years of investigation (and despite all the tricks and bullshitery of the CIA) this bastard was stripped of the US citizenship in 1994 and deported to Lithuania... where the local authorities have found no evidence of his war crimes (despite the fact, that said evidence used in Lileikis persecution in the States were received from Lithuanian acrhives). He died peacefully in hospital in 2000 at the age of 92 years.

This "news" about just 1000 Nazis are only tip of the iceberg. Article comments that:

Evidence of the government’s links to Nazi spies began emerging publicly in the 1970s. But thousands of records from declassified files, Freedom of Information Act requests and other sources, together with interviews with scores of current and former government officials, show that the government’s recruitment of Nazis ran far deeper than previously known and that officials sought to conceal those ties for at least a half-century after the war.

In 1980, F.B.I. officials refused to tell even the Justice Department’s own Nazi hunters what they knew about 16 suspected Nazis living in the United States.

The bureau balked at a request from prosecutors for internal records on the Nazi suspects, memos show, because the 16 men had all worked as F.B.I. informants, providing leads on Communist “sympathizers.” Five of the men were still active informants.


And US hired not only suchs like Lileikis, who only committed "minor war crimes" (i.e. killed "only" 60 000 Jews):

Some spies for the United States had worked at the highest levels for the Nazis.

One SS officer, Otto von Bolschwing, was a mentor and top aide to Adolf Eichmann, architect of the “Final Solution,” and wrote policy papers on how to terrorize Jews.

Yet after the war, the C.I.A. not only hired him as a spy in Europe, but relocated him and his family to New York City in 1954, records show. The move was seen as a “a reward for his loyal postwar service and in view of the innocuousness of his [Nazi] party activities,” the agency wrote...

...When Israeli agents captured Eichmann in Argentina in 1960, Otto von Bolschwing went to the C.I.A. for help because he worried they might come after him, memos show.

Agency officials were worried as well that Mr. von Bolschwing might be named as Eichmann’s “collaborator and fellow conspirator and that the resulting publicity may prove embarrassing to the U.S.” a C.I.A. official wrote.

After two agents met with Mr. von Bolschwing in 1961, the agency assured him it would not disclose his ties to Eichmann, records show. He lived freely for another 20 years before prosecutors discovered his wartime role and prosecuted him. He agreed to give up his citizenship in 1981, dying months later.


USA used former Nazi's not only in the espionage work:

The Nazi spies performed a range of tasks for American agencies in the 1950s and 1960s, from the hazardous to the trivial, the documents show.

In Maryland, Army officials trained several Nazi officers in paramilitary warfare for a possible invasion of Russia. In Connecticut, the C.I.A. used an ex-Nazi guard to study Soviet-bloc postage stamps for hidden meanings.

In Virginia, a top adviser to Hitler gave classified briefings on Soviet affairs. And in Germany, SS officers infiltrated Russian-controlled zones, laying surveillance cables and monitoring trains.


So, the question is simple - sas the USA justified in the use of former Nazi personell against the USSR (Yes or No)? Why?

My opinion is equally simple. By actively employing not just Germans, but Nazis US of A marred themselves during the Cold War completely eliminating any claims for "moral" superiority and right to call anyone but themselves as the "Evil Empire".
Last edited by Lyttenburg on Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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New Aerios
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Postby New Aerios » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:07 pm

Lyttenburg wrote: killed "only" 60 000 Yews


Wait, the US hired Nazi lumberjacks?
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The German Democratic Reich
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Postby The German Democratic Reich » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:09 pm

Oy vey...

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:09 pm

Is this really news? We've known this for years.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:09 pm

No one had the moral high ground in the Cold War so I fail to see the relevance on that part :P.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:11 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:Is this really news? We've known this for years.

Yeah pretty much, the soviets had some former Nazis working for them as well though from what i remember they were more interested in the actual hardware. But i would be more surprised if they did not have some working for them.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shilya
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Postby Shilya » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:11 pm

Everyone hired ex-nazis after WW2. Of course, the FBI and CIA would as well.

If it's morally justified that everyone else did, it's fair game for them, too.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:11 pm

New Aerios wrote:
Lyttenburg wrote: killed "only" 60 000 Yews


Wait, the US hired Nazi lumberjacks?

Article so depressing that you needed a crack to lighten the mood?
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:12 pm

Benuty wrote:No one had the moral high ground in the Cold War so I fail to see the relevance on that part :P.

Every other day it seemed like we were overthrowing yet another democratically elected third-world government.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:13 pm

Nothing new here, not like they performed blood rituals or anything.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:13 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Benuty wrote:No one had the moral high ground in the Cold War so I fail to see the relevance on that part :P.

Every other day it seemed like we were overthrowing yet another democratically elected third-world government.

"Bob who are we overthrowing on Monday? An African government or a south American government?"

".. why not both? get it out of the way"
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Scepez
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Postby Scepez » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:14 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Wait, the US hired Nazi lumberjacks?

Article so depressing that you needed a crack to lighten the mood?

Depressing? Maybe.
Everyone saw it coming and really wasn't unfair because everyone did it? You bet.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:14 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote: "Bob who are we overthrowing on Monday? An African government or a south American government?"

".. why not both? get it out of the way"

May as well throw in an assassination attempt on Castro while we're at it.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:14 pm

The balkens wrote:Nothing new here, not like they performed blood rituals or anything.

Reagan certainly did.

He was a bloodletter after all.
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New Kvenland
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Postby New Kvenland » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:14 pm

You do realise that Nazis were some of the most intelligent people in the world? And that employing them was like employing Einstein?
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:15 pm

The balkens wrote:Nothing new here, not like they performed blood rituals or anything.

Killing 60,000 Jews is considerably worse than blood rituals. Lytt's OP raises the question of whether it is justifiable for a government to protect well- known war criminals.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:16 pm

New Kvenland wrote:You do realise that Nazis were some of the most intelligent people in the world? And that employing them was like employing Einstein?

They also had some dumbass buffoons in their ranks.

I mean what some of those ex-nazi's did in East Germany during the cold war is fucking hilarious.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:16 pm

Benuty wrote:
The balkens wrote:Nothing new here, not like they performed blood rituals or anything.

Reagan certainly did.

He was a bloodletter after all.


Scheiße! HE HAS DISCOVERED OUR SECRET!

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:16 pm

New Kvenland wrote:You do realise that Nazis were some of the most intelligent people in the world? And that employing them was like employing Einstein?

Ha ha ha.

No.

Rather, being a Nazi was important to achieve high positions outside of the military establishment in Hitler's Germany; which means most of the folks who had enough funding to show progress were card carrying Nazis.

These fellows were more garden variety thugs with a bit of experience that made them useful.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:17 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
The balkens wrote:Nothing new here, not like they performed blood rituals or anything.

Killing 60,000 Jews is considerably worse than blood rituals. Lytt's OP raises the question of whether it is justifiable for a government to protect well- known war criminals.


Didnt the soviets hire Nazi scientist to boost their space program?

Because we had Von Braun.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:18 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:Killing 60,000 Jews is considerably worse than blood rituals.

I believe they were referring to America's actions, not those of the ex Nazi they employed.
Lytt's OP raises the question of whether it is justifiable for a government to protect well- known war criminals.

Not particularly, but we know it happens in the name of realpolitik. Anyone who's useful gets a free pass; everyone else is just PR.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:19 pm

The balkens wrote:
Benuty wrote:Reagan certainly did.

He was a bloodletter after all.


Scheiße! HE HAS DISCOVERED OUR SECRET!

ACTIVATE CASE RED!

TO THE MOON GENERALFELDMARSCHALL!
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:20 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
The balkens wrote:
Scheiße! HE HAS DISCOVERED OUR SECRET!

ACTIVATE CASE RED!

TO THE MOON GENERALFELDMARSCHALL!


JA! COME WITH ME HERR HAM!

JA! :p

In all seriousness, i do believe that this is nothing new.

I mean, look at Von braun. Dat V2
Last edited by The balkens on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vecherd
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Postby Vecherd » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:20 pm

I am not really that shocked that the U.S thinks the end justifies the means, that was of course, completely wrong. The U.S even have gone around fucking with the USSR.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:20 pm

The balkens wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Killing 60,000 Jews is considerably worse than blood rituals. Lytt's OP raises the question of whether it is justifiable for a government to protect well- known war criminals.


Didnt the soviets hire Nazi scientist to boost their space program?

Because we had Von Braun.

The article wasn't addressing von Braun or the scientists though (as CM noted, go get funding , you pretty much had to be a Nazi Party member. This article is talking about a man who aided in the murder of 60,000 people.
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