Pope Francis supports evolution, says God isn't a magician

[Benuty]

It's bad because extremist have overturned the religion into some cult. Muslim people are actually very peaceful people.

I completely agree, Muslims were the ones who preserved and even expanded the knowledge of the Classical Civilizations, while the Europeans were too busy killing each other.

The Carolingian renaissance called.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

[Forty Twoania]

I completely agree, Muslims were the ones who preserved and even expanded the knowledge of the Classical Civilizations, while the Europeans were too busy killing each other.

The Carolingian renaissance called.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

That can't compare to what was happening all over Islamic civilization.
In Europe, at this time period, learning was very limited

[Constantinopolis]

The political situation in the Middle East today is literally an exact copy of the situation in Medieval Europe.

No, it's really not.

As much as they love to dress up and re-enact stuff from the time of the (real) Caliphate, modern jihadists are very much modern in their worldview and approach to politics. They are followers of an ultra-reactionary insurgent ideology which promises to solve the problems of modern society by a return to an imaginary glorious past, and by purifying society of all foreign elements. The best historical analogy is not Europe in the Middle Ages, but Europe in the 1930s. ISIS isn't the Middle Eastern version of some medieval kingdom. It's the Middle Eastern version of the Third Reich.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Nope. Christianity has been around longer and has sparked more wars than Islam. Doesn't make Islam better, since they are both incorrect, contradictory, baseless religions.

And we succumb to the threadjack, just as Arche wanted.

Well, you tried. I have no trouble trying the direct approach:

I will pray that the Catholic Church puts an end to this error. We must take a stand on a literal Genesis or risk compromising the entire Bible.

/threadjack

No amount of "Hey, look over there!" will change that into any less of a bizarre claim. It's really weird somebody can't accept "And God said 'Be excellent to each other.'" all by itself.

And you're welcome to use my quip. Attribution is appreciated.

[Autumn Wind]

yeah god picked up a pen and wrote the bible.

If you want to put it that way? Fine. God did have the Bible inspired to men, though.

Right. There are four Gospels. They are all textually different and contain contradictory accounts of Jesus' life. Either Jesus said different things simultaneously or the Holy Spirit inspired three of the four Gospel writters to be wrong.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

If you want to put it that way? Fine. God did have the Bible inspired to men, though.

Right. There are four Gospels. They are all textually different and contain contradictory accounts of Jesus' life. Either Jesus said different things simultaneously or the Holy Spirit inspired three of the four Gospel writters to be wrong.

Jesus telling a joke to his friends: "and then the cobbler---no, wait, he was a haberdasher---no, that's not right...barber? Whatever, he was some kind of workman, it's not important. Anyways, that guy walks into a bar. No, no, a pub. No, a bar..."

[Autumn Wind]

The curch would never "OK" Abortion. It will never "OK" anything on the list of the Five Non-Negotiables.
here they are -> http://www.stjoseph-marysville.org/faqn ... ables.html

Sure. It was once essentially a "non-negotiable" fact that the Earth was the center of the universe.

Actually, I hope you're right, and that the Church refuses to ever compromise on those issues. It will make them seem as archaic as they are and hopefully it will encourage people to leave the Church in the dust bin of history, where it belongs.

As a secularist, I applaud the Catholic Church for adhering to it's own moral philosophy. If, as a religion, it discourages it's followers from some courses of actions in the name of it's internal moral philosophy I have no objection. It is only when they attempt to coerce secular laws to reflect their principles that I take issue.

The Catholic Church has long stated it's objection to unnecessesary violence generally, to include offensive warfare, excessive police action, torture, and the death penalty. That they feel abortion should be included is a matter of their own calculus, not mine.

[State of the Teutonic Order]

On the issue of LGBT, and said marriage issue 1/3rd of bishops is quite big a number.

Unfortunately the conservatives won that battle for policy making.

All in good time.

Not gonna happen. The church is still a beacon of hope for those who believe in the sanctity of marriage. No left wing extremist like yourself is going to change the definition of marriage just because you rally behind the "they are in love" argument

[Autumn Wind]

Right. There are four Gospels. They are all textually different and contain contradictory accounts of Jesus' life. Either Jesus said different things simultaneously or the Holy Spirit inspired three of the four Gospel writters to be wrong.

Jesus telling a joke to his friends: "and then the cobbler---no, wait, he was a haberdasher---no, that's not right...barber? Whatever, he was some kind of workman, it's not important. Anyways, that guy walks into a bar. No, no, a pub. No, a bar..."

If each Gospel exactly related that story, with Jesus stumbling over the details, correctly, I would be willing to entertain that it was inspired by an omnicient diety.

That there is the same story, only discussing a cobbler, haberdasher, and a barber respectively and they can't agree on which town it happened in makes me tend to doubt that an infallible mind was inerrantly relating the story.

[Mystral]

Ok, now it's time to admit god doesn't exist.

In your dreams

[The Archregimancy]

The Carolingian renaissance called.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

That can't compare to what was happening all over Islamic civilization.
In Europe, at this time period, learning was very limited

Western Europe; why everyone forgets the Byzantines in these problematic comparative dichotomies between early medieval "Europe" and the Caliphate always escapes me.


As to the topic of the OP, as with so much else involving the current Pope of Rome, the difference remains one of emphasis in restating what the Catholic Church already believes; there's been no change in doctrine.

Edit: Constantinopolis put it rather better than I did earlier in the thread...

You know, Pope Francis should start a weekly "Did you know..." column to inform people about all the progressive views that the Catholic Church has held all along but which always seem to come as a surprise when the Pope mentions them.

Or maybe that won't be necessary. His current media strategy seems to be working beautifully. He keeps mentioning those progressive doctrines (some of which are literally ancient, as in they date back to Roman times) and the media keeps turning them into major news stories that make the Catholic Church look good.

They might as well run this headline every time:

"Shocking! The Pope is not a conservative Protestant! More on this developing story..."

What continues to be depressing about reaction to Francis stating the obvious is the extent to which the conservative American Evangelical Protestants have apparently succeeded in making non-Christians think that the conservative American Evangelical Protestant interpretation of Christianity is the baseline by which Christianity should be understood and judged, as opposed to the view held by a minority (albeit a shouty and politically active one).

[Empire of Narnia]

Pope Francis is like the Gorbachev of Catholicism. Gorbachev was a capitalist liberal who infiltrated a Communist, authoritarian government. Francis is an atheist liberal who infiltrated a religious organization. I have a feeling it might end the same way as well.

[Senyosu]

Pope Francis is like the Gorbachev of Catholicism. Gorbachev was a capitalist liberal who infiltrated a Communist, authoritarian government. Francis is an atheist liberal who infiltrated a religious organization. I have a feeling it might end the same way as well.

Source all of this.

[Utceforp]

Pope Francis is like the Gorbachev of Catholicism. Gorbachev was a capitalist liberal who infiltrated a Communist, authoritarian government. Francis is an atheist liberal who infiltrated a religious organization. I have a feeling it might end the same way as well.

Pope Francis is as likely to be an atheist as he is to be a member of the Illuminati.

[Empire of Narnia]

Pope Francis is like the Gorbachev of Catholicism. Gorbachev was a capitalist liberal who infiltrated a Communist, authoritarian government. Francis is an atheist liberal who infiltrated a religious organization. I have a feeling it might end the same way as well.

Pope Francis is as likely to be an atheist as he is to be a member of the Illuminati.

The real Illuminati was shut down by the Catholic church in 1785. Francis is just a Liberal. Just as bad, just less triangles.

[The Flood]

Well, the Pope has made another (relatively) progressive statement. In the past, the Catholic Church has alluded to backing evolution, however it was qualified by 'intelligent design'. He has actually declared support for the idea that the Big Bang theory and evolution are real - however that they were 'started' by God.
I think this is definitely one of the most progressive/secular statements made by the Church. Pope Francis has increasingly supported various secular ideas, such as being less intense about opposition to LGBT people, contraception, etc, and other things that were once very taboo for the Church. He shows a much more open-minded, in my opinion. I think that saying that 'God doesn't have a magic wand' is a pretty big deal for the Catholic Church. It reflects the ideas about religion that many religious (and irreligious) people may have in the 21st century. Although the Catholic Church is far from being a progressive or modern institution, it has come a long way under Pope Francis.

I think that the Pope, and whoever is predecessor is (if he is progressive, too) could continue the modernization of the Church, even if it is a very slow process. Pope Francis seems to do this modernization in a very slow way that won't offend anyone too much, while keeping up largely with public opinion. I really wish he'd just declare complete support for all the things the Church opposes, but I doubt that'd ever happen in the near or medium future.

So, NSG, what are your thoughts on this? Is Pope Francis really as progressive as everyone says he is? Is this a big deal? What's the future for the modernization of the Church?

The day that the Church OKs LGBTs and contraceptived(maybe abortion), I hope this site is still around so I can see certain poster's The Flood heads explode.

The Catholic Church will never accept abortion. If it ever did so, it would cease to be the Catholic Church.

[Othelos]

Pope Francis is like the Gorbachev of Catholicism. Gorbachev was a capitalist liberal who infiltrated a Communist, authoritarian government. Francis is an atheist liberal who infiltrated a religious organization. I have a feeling it might end the same way as well.

the church accepted evolution before he became the pope...

[Utceforp]

Pope Francis is as likely to be an atheist as he is to be a member of the Illuminati.

The real Illuminati was shut down by the Catholic church in 1785. Francis is just a Liberal. Just as bad, just less triangles.

The real Illuminati were actually pretty cool guys with views ahead of their times. Anyway that statement was a joke - Pope Francis is not an atheist.

[Othelos]

The day that the Church OKs LGBTs and contraceptived(maybe abortion), I hope this site is still around so I can see certain poster's The Flood heads explode.

The Catholic Church will never accept abortion. If it ever did so, it would cease to be the Catholic Church.

good thing there is separation of church and state, then.

[Utceforp]

The day that the Church OKs LGBTs and contraceptived(maybe abortion), I hope this site is still around so I can see certain poster's The Flood heads explode.

The Catholic Church will never accept abortion. If it ever did so, it would cease to be the Catholic Church.

"Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing"."

[The Flood]

The Catholic Church will never accept abortion. If it ever did so, it would cease to be the Catholic Church.

"Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing"."

That's not how the Church works buddy. If you violate the core tenets of the faith, you become heretical, and cease to be a part of the body of the True Church.

[Utceforp]

"Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing"."

That's not how the Church works buddy. If you violate the core tenets of the faith, you become heretical, and cease to be a part of the body of the True Church.

Could you point out to me which part of the Bible mentions abortion? I can't seem to find it...

[Polkopia]

Good. I'm a Catholic and I believe in evolution, so I see no problems at all with this statement.

[Neo Philippine Empire]

Good. I'm a Catholic and I believe in evolution, so I see no problems at all with this statement.

Me too, There'd be a chance that God made evolution and 7 days is probably 7 centuries or probably millennium

[Cosumar]

My father just went on a big angry rant when he saw the headline about this Fox News. He's now considering not letting my little sister (who is 9) go to church with her Catholic friend anymore.

This is what I used to live with.