Student to Bring Dagger to School for Religious Reasons

[Fartsniffage]

Then why aren't you making a thread about the Sikh exemption to wearing motorcycle helmets in the UK?

This seemed more interesting. Also, I hadn't heard about that, but I'm assuming it's because of their turbans.

Well it's only been in place since the helmet law came into force in the UK in the 70's, so I can understand why you wouldn't have heard of it...

Forgive me if I'm suspicious of "please think of the children" when it comes to thread OPs.

[Kiribati-Tarawa]

A kirpan is worn as a religious symbol, not as a weapon. If you can find a gun that's worn as a religious symbol then perhaps we'll have a realistic comparison.

The Church of Alvis has a gun as its holy symbol...

http://www.thechurchofalvis.com/about-us/


"He killed for your sins!"


EDIT I hate embedding videos

I can't tell if that website is a joke or not...

[Sevvania]

A kirpan is a knife. So are you asking how often a knife has been used in a school stabbing, or will you only accept reports of stabbins done with that particular type of knife? Because I can't think of any school shootings that have been carried out with an M1 Garand. Does that mean an M1 Garand would be more acceptable to bring to school than any other type of gun?

A kirpan is worn as a religious symbol, not as a weapon. If you can find a gun that's worn as a religious symbol then perhaps we'll have a realistic comparison.

A kirpan is a religious symbol that just so happens to double as a weapon. Just because it's intended to be worn as a religious statement doesn't suddenly mean that it is incapable of causing harm. It is still a knife.


Just like these are still guns.

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the simple fact that they want to carry knives. I have a problem with the fact that the school systems have "zero tolerance" policies and dole out harsh punishments for anyone who breaks the rules, regardless of the circumstances, and then turn around and start making exceptions.

[Digital Planets]

A kirpan is worn as a religious symbol, not as a weapon. If you can find a gun that's worn as a religious symbol then perhaps we'll have a realistic comparison.

A kirpan is a religious symbol that just so happens to double as a weapon. Just because it's intended to be worn as a religious statement doesn't suddenly mean that it is incapable of causing harm. It is still a knife.


Just like these are still guns.

The grip on the first image looks very uncomfortable.

[The Alma Mater]

A kirpan is worn as a religious symbol, not as a weapon. If you can find a gun that's worn as a religious symbol then perhaps we'll have a realistic comparison.

A kirpan is a religious symbol that just so happens to double as a weapon. Just because it's intended to be worn as a religious statement doesn't suddenly mean that it is incapable of causing harm. It is still a knife.

In adddition, why would religion be a more valid reason than others ?
Perhaps I esthetically like the look of a sword on my belt or a dagger up my sleeve. Why would that be less worthy of consideration than "my religion tells me to carry it" ?

[Master Shake]

The Church of Alvis has a gun as its holy symbol...

http://www.thechurchofalvis.com/about-us/


"He killed for your sins!"


EDIT I hate embedding videos

I can't tell if that website is a joke or not...

It's basically a good example of what happens when Star Wars fans take things too seriously...

[-Ebola-]

If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?

Well, the fear is that he might begin to do that. This occurred just last April - and now you want to let people carry knives in school? Also, wouldn't this set a precedent for allowing people to bring carry weapons for religious reasons? I'm not just thinking about this particular student, but rather, about the message that it sends.

The thing is, those ceremonial daggers are a big thing for Sikhs, they've had them for a long time, and historically they have been good about not stabbing innocent people. This isn't some alarming new trend.

Other religious objects should be considered on a case by case basis, depending on how important the object is to the religion in question, how much damage it could potentially do, whether the student in question has any history of discipline problems, and whether the family seems sincere in their claim that it is for religious reasons. If the kid does something with the dagger that he was instructed not to do, such as taking it out during class, the school can punish him accordingly and tell him to stop bringing it to school. But if he isn't causing trouble, then I don't see the problem with letting him carry the dagger.

[Wild-Ass Hell]

I see nothing wrong with this.

[-Ebola-]

If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?

This is the problem.
"Due to the No-Tolerance Policies, there have been severe punishments imposed on many students including myself, regardless of circumstances."

Not seeing how that makes it a problem for a Sikh to carry a ceremonial dagger...

[The Alma Mater]

I see nothing wrong with this.

Well, it is a tad bit wrong that nonsikhs are not allowed to do the same.

[Master Shake]

This is the problem.
"Due to the No-Tolerance Policies, there have been severe punishments imposed on many students including myself, regardless of circumstances."

Not seeing how that makes it a problem for a Sikh to carry a ceremonial dagger...

Its a stupid double standard....

I recall back in 1999(yes I'm that old!) we had a bunch of kids bringing pocket knives to school since it was considered "cool"...

All the kids get expelled....Bare in mind it is due to Zero Violence Policies that forces the administration to kick these kids out...

[Sevvania]

This is the problem.
"Due to the No-Tolerance Policies, there have been severe punishments imposed on many students including myself, regardless of circumstances."

Not seeing how that makes it a problem for a Sikh to carry a ceremonial dagger...

"Severe punishments imposed on many students, regardless of circumstances."

Sikhs are students. Their religious beliefs are a circumstance. Kids get suspended for carrying knives all the time, even if they're not whipping them out and threatening other students with them. If you're going to have a "zero tolerance" policy, have a zero tolerance policy. Don't make exceptions. If you're going to make exceptions, then get rid of the zero tolerance policy.

[Master Shake]

Not seeing how that makes it a problem for a Sikh to carry a ceremonial dagger...

"Severe punishments imposed on many students, regardless of circumstances."

Sikhs are students. Their religious beliefs are a circumstance. Kids get punished for carrying knives all the time, even if they're not whipping them out and threatening other students with them. If you're going to have a "zero tolerance" policy, have a zero tolerance policy. Don't make exceptions. If you're going to make exceptions, then get rid of the zero tolerance policy.

Sums up my position perfectly!

[Libertarian Somaliland]

the gun wasn't related to the boy's religion, unless he was a redneck then it would be allowed

[Principality of Savante]

From what I am reading is that there are double standards when we talk about religious freedom. First and for most, I am for religious freedom. However there is a double standard. For example, this public school in las Vegas will allow a Muslim girl wear her buto a but will not all Jewish boys to wear their yamika to school. This is another double standard in religious freedom when we are talking about religious freedom. The difference is a Sikh boy carrying a sacred knife for religious reasons and the zero tolerance of schools against violence. I do worry about the safety of the school first. Public safety must come first. I don't think this boy would harm other kids with his knife. Here is a scenario: let's say he gets bullied and uses the knife to protect him? Would the scool suspend him for defending himself against the bullies? Another question is: If the Sikh boy is allowed to carry a sacred knife to school, would it open doors for a radical Muslim kid to bring bombs to school? What would we do in relations to public safety. We must think of public safety first and have zero tolerance for all weapons.

[The Flood]

Sikh knives are small and dull, they are of no more use as a weapon then a pen, or many other instruments that can be found in a school.

[-Ebola-]

Not seeing how that makes it a problem for a Sikh to carry a ceremonial dagger...

Its a stupid double standard....

I recall back in 1999(yes I'm that old!) we had a bunch of kids bringing pocket knives to school since it was considered "cool"...

All the kids get expelled....Bare in mind it is due to Zero Violence Policies that forces the administration to kick these kids out...

So zero tolerance policies sometimes go overboard. Some of them maybe should be reconsidered and students granted a little more leeway. It is still not a reason why a Sikh should not be allowed to carry a ceremonial dagger.

[The Alma Mater]

Its a stupid double standard....

I recall back in 1999(yes I'm that old!) we had a bunch of kids bringing pocket knives to school since it was considered "cool"...

All the kids get expelled....Bare in mind it is due to Zero Violence Policies that forces the administration to kick these kids out...

So zero tolerance policies sometimes go overboard. Some of them maybe should be reconsidered and students granted a little more leeway. It is still not a reason why a Sikh should not be allowed to carry a ceremonial dagger.

Can a wiccan bring a ceremonial knife as well then ? And how about worshippers of the mighty Bear Grylls ?
Or to rephrase: who should NOT be allowed to bring one ?

[Master Shake]

So zero tolerance policies sometimes go overboard. Some of them maybe should be reconsidered and students granted a little more leeway. It is still not a reason why a Sikh should not be allowed to carry a ceremonial dagger.

Can a wiccan bring a ceremonial knife as well then ? And how about worshippers of the mighty Bear Grylls ?
Or to rephrase: who should NOT be allowed to bring one ?

Good question....

What if a Satanist wants to come to school dressed in blood stained clothing and has a dagger for "religious reasons"...like sacrificing a goat at recess?

[Sevvania]

Its a stupid double standard....

I recall back in 1999(yes I'm that old!) we had a bunch of kids bringing pocket knives to school since it was considered "cool"...

All the kids get expelled....Bare in mind it is due to Zero Violence Policies that forces the administration to kick these kids out...

So zero tolerance policies sometimes go overboard. Some of them maybe should be reconsidered and students granted a little more leeway. It is still not a reason why a Sikh should not be allowed to carry a ceremonial dagger.

Until those policies are reconsidered, until students are granted more leeway, it's a perfect reason Sikhs shouldn't be allowed to carry a dagger. Because with current policies, it's hypocritical. It's an exception to something that, by it's own definition, makes no exceptions. It's granting permission to a select group to do something that anyone else would be suspended for.

[Anglo-California]

Seems okay. Didn't schools used to allow pocket knives back in the day anyways?

[Master Shake]

Seems okay. Didn't schools used to allow pocket knives back in the day anyways?

in the 1950s when every Boy was a Boy scout...

[The Flood]

So zero tolerance policies sometimes go overboard. Some of them maybe should be reconsidered and students granted a little more leeway. It is still not a reason why a Sikh should not be allowed to carry a ceremonial dagger.

Can a wiccan bring a ceremonial knife as well then ? And how about worshippers of the mighty Bear Grylls ?
Or to rephrase: who should NOT be allowed to bring one ?

I say anyone should be able to bring such a blunt instrument. If you're going to ban these, ban pens too.

However, if they must be banned, then only ban them for use by students who are not part of a religion that requires it. And no, a religion made up by a single person to get away with things doesn't count, and is not a real religion. Comparing such things to genuine religions is offensive.

[Anglo-California]

Seems okay. Didn't schools used to allow pocket knives back in the day anyways?

in the 1950s when every Boy was a Boy scout...

A better time indeed. Now the Boy Scouts is a glorified daycare because soccer moms threaten to sue them whenever they want to do fun stuff.

[The Alma Mater]

Can a wiccan bring a ceremonial knife as well then ? And how about worshippers of the mighty Bear Grylls ?
Or to rephrase: who should NOT be allowed to bring one ?

I say anyone should be able to bring such a blunt instrument. If you're going to ban these, ban pens too.

However, if they must be banned, then only ban them for use by students who are not part of a religion that requires it. And no, a religion made up by a single person to get away with things doesn't count, and is not a real religion. Comparing such things to genuine religions is offensive.

Not nearly as offensive as your suggestion that religious people should have more rights than others.