Statistics Don't Support Rape Culture

[Haktiva]

It's gonna happen anyways, but there are steps a person can take to keep themselves safe. It's not my responsibility to look after anyone but myself unless I agree to a contract(shake hands and such).

What if it would have been your best friend the one who got raped, would you still blame it on them?

There's a cause for everything. What led up to it? My best friend is responsible for their own safety, if they're not being careful, then there's a much more likely chance of bad stuff happening to them. They're not responsible for the rapist raping them, but they are responsible for making themselves vulnerable.

If I'm at a party and I'm not watching my drink, it's my fault if someone slips a date rape drug in there without anyone anyone noticing, not my fault the rapist decided to do that.

[Haktiva]

It's gonna happen anyways, but there are steps a person can take to keep themselves safe. It's not my responsibility to look after anyone but myself unless I agree to a contract(shake hands and such).

That is fucking bullshit.

There is a simple solution to rape and sexual abuse: control your fucking urges

I do it every fucking day. So do lots of other people.

yeah, but rapists aren't most people, obviously. They're sociopaths for the most part, so obviously our morals don't apply to them. They don't give a shit. You have to take steps to avoid and protect yourself from those types of people.

[Spoder]

What if it would have been your best friend the one who got raped, would you still blame it on them?

There's a cause for everything. What led up to it? My best friend is responsible for their own safety, if they're not being careful, then there's a much more likely chance of bad stuff happening to them. They're not responsible for the rapist raping them, but they are responsible for making themselves vulnerable.

If I'm at a party and I'm not watching my drink, it's my fault if someone slips a date rape drug in there without anyone anyone noticing, not my fault the rapist decided to do that.

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

[Spoder]

That is fucking bullshit.

There is a simple solution to rape and sexual abuse: control your fucking urges

I do it every fucking day. So do lots of other people.

yeah, but rapists aren't most people, obviously. They're sociopaths for the most part, so obviously our morals don't apply to them. They don't give a shit. You have to take steps to avoid and protect yourself from those types of people.

You shouldn't have to.

Keeping your head down does nothing.

I get the feeling your love has never been unrequited, or your testosterone levels didn't spike in your teen years.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What if it would have been your best friend the one who got raped, would you still blame it on them?

There's a cause for everything. What led up to it? My best friend is responsible for their own safety, if they're not being careful, then there's a much more likely chance of bad stuff happening to them. They're not responsible for the rapist raping them, but they are responsible for making themselves vulnerable.

If I'm at a party and I'm not watching my drink, it's my fault if someone slips a date rape drug in there without anyone anyone noticing, not my fault the rapist decided to do that.

Well then.

[Seangoli]

It's gonna happen anyways, but there are steps a person can take to keep themselves safe. It's not my responsibility to look after anyone but myself unless I agree to a contract(shake hands and such).

That is fucking bullshit.

There is a simple solution to rape and sexual abuse: control your fucking urges

I do it every fucking day. So do lots of other people.

While I absolutely agree victim blaming is utter shite, and you should never blame a victim, I do think there is a place for advocating a degree of self-protection to help prevent occurrences from happening. You cannot control other people's actions, but you can minimize the personal risk you face in everything.

To bring up a crime-related analogy, nobody would wave off the victim of a robbery because they left their door unlocked and get robbed. If the person who did it were caught, they would be charged. But that doesn't mean you leave you door unlocked. In a similar manner, nobody should ever blame the victim of rape regardless of circumstance for what occurred. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate personal protection and safety to minimize the risk involved. It'd be great to get rid of rapists from our society. That is a complete impossibility, however, just as it is to get rid of robber and other criminals. There are just terrible people. We can do what we can, but we ultimately cannot control individuals. So we take precautions to minimize our risk from them, and hope they help prevent said crimes from occurring.

[Haktiva]

There's a cause for everything. What led up to it? My best friend is responsible for their own safety, if they're not being careful, then there's a much more likely chance of bad stuff happening to them. They're not responsible for the rapist raping them, but they are responsible for making themselves vulnerable.

If I'm at a party and I'm not watching my drink, it's my fault if someone slips a date rape drug in there without anyone anyone noticing, not my fault the rapist decided to do that.

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

Why would I report you? You're expressing your opinion. I don't give a shit what it is.

[Spoder]

That is fucking bullshit.

There is a simple solution to rape and sexual abuse: control your fucking urges

I do it every fucking day. So do lots of other people.

While I absolutely agree victim blaming is utter shite, and you should never blame a victim, I do think there is a place for advocating a degree of self-protection to help prevent occurrences from happening. You cannot control other people's actions, but you can minimize the personal risk you face in everything.

To bring up a crime-related analogy, nobody would wave off the victim of a robbery because they left their door unlocked and get robbed. If the person who did it were caught, they would be charged. But that doesn't mean you leave you door unlocked. In a similar manner, nobody should ever blame the victim of rape regardless of circumstance for what occurred. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate personal protection and safety to minimize the risk involved. It'd be great to get rid of rapists from our society. That is a complete impossibility, however, just as it is to get rid of robber and other criminals. There are just terrible people. We can do what we can, but we ultimately cannot control individuals. So we take precautions to minimize our risk from them, and hope they help prevent said crimes from occurring.

The difference between all of these examples is how simple the solution to preventing rape culture is.

It's not even rapists, but cat calling and all that other shit too.

[Spoder]

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

Why would I report you? You're expressing your opinion. I don't give a shit what it is.

I thought attacking posters was against the rules (I've gotten in trouble for it).

Whatever.

[Haktiva]

yeah, but rapists aren't most people, obviously. They're sociopaths for the most part, so obviously our morals don't apply to them. They don't give a shit. You have to take steps to avoid and protect yourself from those types of people.

You shouldn't have to.

Keeping your head down does nothing.

I get the feeling your love has never been unrequited, or your testosterone levels didn't spike in your teen years.

How does a personal attack make for a good argument?

[Central Slavia]

There's a cause for everything. What led up to it? My best friend is responsible for their own safety, if they're not being careful, then there's a much more likely chance of bad stuff happening to them. They're not responsible for the rapist raping them, but they are responsible for making themselves vulnerable.

If I'm at a party and I'm not watching my drink, it's my fault if someone slips a date rape drug in there without anyone anyone noticing, not my fault the rapist decided to do that.

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

[Spoder]

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

Yes. But the whole point is you shouldn't have to take those steps, and it isn't as complicated as stopping thievery and murder worldwide.

The solution to sex-related crimes/harassment is just so fucking simple, it hurts.

[Spoder]

You shouldn't have to.

Keeping your head down does nothing.

I get the feeling your love has never been unrequited, or your testosterone levels didn't spike in your teen years.

How does a personal attack make for a good argument?

Experience (experience, not age) tends to lend to a better understanding of situations.

[Central Slavia]

yeah, but rapists aren't most people, obviously. They're sociopaths for the most part, so obviously our morals don't apply to them. They don't give a shit. You have to take steps to avoid and protect yourself from those types of people.

You shouldn't have to.

Keeping your head down does nothing.

I get the feeling your love has never been unrequited, or your testosterone levels didn't spike in your teen years.

Now this is downright idiotic.
Not protecting yourself because "you shouldn't have to" is idiotic. You shouldn't have to watch your pockets when in a public transport, but if you don't, your wallet's likely to go away.

[Central Slavia]

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

Yes. But the whole point is you shouldn't have to take those steps, and it isn't as complicated as stopping thievery and murder worldwide.

The solution to sex-related crimes/harassment is just so fucking simple, it hurts.

And what is the solution, pray tell?

[Spoder]

Yes. But the whole point is you shouldn't have to take those steps, and it isn't as complicated as stopping thievery and murder worldwide.

The solution to sex-related crimes/harassment is just so fucking simple, it hurts.

And what is the solution, pray tell?

Like I said. People need to control their urges. If need be (in the case of serious mental disabilities) medication can be provided.

You have a boner? Too fucking bad. Like the way her natural D-cups look? Doesn't mean you need to stare at them like some motherfucking creep.

[Haktiva]

That is fucking bullshit.

There is a simple solution to rape and sexual abuse: control your fucking urges

I do it every fucking day. So do lots of other people.

While I absolutely agree victim blaming is utter shite, and you should never blame a victim, I do think there is a place for advocating a degree of self-protection to help prevent occurrences from happening. You cannot control other people's actions, but you can minimize the personal risk you face in everything.

To bring up a crime-related analogy, nobody would wave off the victim of a robbery because they left their door unlocked and get robbed. If the person who did it were caught, they would be charged. But that doesn't mean you leave you door unlocked. In a similar manner, nobody should ever blame the victim of rape regardless of circumstance for what occurred. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate personal protection and safety to minimize the risk involved. It'd be great to get rid of rapists from our society. That is a complete impossibility, however, just as it is to get rid of robber and other criminals. There are just terrible people. We can do what we can, but we ultimately cannot control individuals. So we take precautions to minimize our risk from them, and hope they help prevent said crimes from occurring.

thank you for the words of sanity.

[Seangoli]

While I absolutely agree victim blaming is utter shite, and you should never blame a victim, I do think there is a place for advocating a degree of self-protection to help prevent occurrences from happening. You cannot control other people's actions, but you can minimize the personal risk you face in everything.

To bring up a crime-related analogy, nobody would wave off the victim of a robbery because they left their door unlocked and get robbed. If the person who did it were caught, they would be charged. But that doesn't mean you leave you door unlocked. In a similar manner, nobody should ever blame the victim of rape regardless of circumstance for what occurred. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate personal protection and safety to minimize the risk involved. It'd be great to get rid of rapists from our society. That is a complete impossibility, however, just as it is to get rid of robber and other criminals. There are just terrible people. We can do what we can, but we ultimately cannot control individuals. So we take precautions to minimize our risk from them, and hope they help prevent said crimes from occurring.

The difference between all of these examples is how simple the solution to preventing rape culture is.

It's not even rapists, but cat calling and all that other shit too.

Minimizing rape culture will not prevent the act of rape, or at the least not remove it from our society. There are truly messed up people who don't give two flying fucks what the rest of society thinks, and I'm willing to bet that most rapists are of the mindset. What combating rape culture does help, however, is increase the likelihood that such crimes will be reported and dealt with, as it provides a societal message to victims that their accusations will be taken seriously and not denied offhandedly. It does not, and I personally see virtually no reason why it would, prevent the crime itself. To think this way is to assume that men within our society are defacto programmed to be rapists. Something which I find borderline insulting, to be frank. Most men are not, and have no sympathy for the crime or the criminal. But there are certain biases that absolutely need to be addressed that lead to difficulty in victims coming forward. And it's hardly just an issue of sexualization of women. Such an explanation, while a part of the whole, completely and utterly ignores the wider aspects of our society that go beyond it. I'm afraid it's far more complicated than it is simple.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

See, here's the problem with that mentality.

Even if someone takes all precautions, people will always say, no matter what they do "she chose to do what she did, she's responsible; she was asking for it".

The only way you can prevent someone from ever doing any harm to you is sheltering yourself at home and live in your own bubble.

And, as we all know, that's not how the real world works. So the next best thing is a combination of taking measures to protect yourself, but to also crack down on rapists. It's not the victim's fault that something happened because, and this is important, they never asked for what happened to them.

[Haktiva]

Say that to a rape victim's face.

I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka.


That is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. That is a sick, twisted, view that needs to go away as soon as it can. You should not have to worry about that. Keeping your head down does fucking nothing.

Report me if you want, but with that statement I now view you as one of the most sick people I have met online and in real life.

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

yeah I know I suck at wording my views sometimes. thanks for that.

[Central Slavia]

And what is the solution, pray tell?

Like I said. People need to control their urges. If need be (in the case of serious mental disabilities) medication can be provided.

You have a boner? Too fucking bad. Like the way her natural D-cups look? Doesn't mean you need to stare at them like some motherfucking creep.

Sorry, but you're full of shit.
If "People need to control their urges" is your solution to rape... wait, why is it not also solution to the thousands of other crimes that happen? People need to control their urges to drink! Bam! Drunk driving goes away! People need to control their urges to harm someone! Bam! Murders/maimings in affect go away! People need to control their urges towards others property! Bam! Theft goes away!

Except you explicitly said to be against this and recognise the other topics to be far more complex than this, which leaves me wondering why you somehow can't get your head around an analogous situation.

[Spoder]

The difference between all of these examples is how simple the solution to preventing rape culture is.

It's not even rapists, but cat calling and all that other shit too.

Minimizing rape culture will not prevent the act of rape, or at the least not remove it from our society. There are truly messed up people who don't give two flying fucks what the rest of society thinks, and I'm willing to bet that most rapists are of the mindset. What combating rape culture does help, however, is increase the likelihood that such crimes will be reported and dealt with, as it provides a societal message to victims that their accusations will be taken seriously and not denied offhandedly. It does not, and I personally see virtually no reason why it would, prevent the crime itself. To think this way is to assume that men within our society are defacto programmed to be rapists. Something which I find borderline insulting, to be frank. Most men are not, and have no sympathy for the crime or the criminal. But there are certain biases that absolutely need to be addressed that lead to difficulty in victims coming forward. And it's hardly just an issue of sexualization of women. Such an explanation, while a part of the whole, completely and utterly ignores the wider aspects of our society that go beyond it. I'm afraid it's far more complicated than it is simple.

Rape culture and rape are two separate issues, yes.

But bodily urges can be controlled. Rape culture is much harder to remove entirely, but it still isn't as complicated as thievery and murder.

[Central Slavia]

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

See, here's the problem with that mentality.

Even if someone takes all precautions, people will always say, no matter what they do "she chose to do what she did, she's responsible; she was asking for it".

Okay, this is glorious. I just make a post explaining the difference between responsibility for your own safety, which is towards yourself and has nothing to do with any law, and legal responsibility, and how they shouldn't be conflated, and yet in the response, you do just that. It's also interesting people don't have the same problem of basic understanding (and on both sides, I have to say) with any other crime you can take precautions against, just rape.
tl;dr, if the people will "always say" the above, they are fucking idiots.

The only way you can prevent someone from ever doing any harm to you is sheltering yourself at home and live in your own bubble.

And, as we all know, that's not how the real world works. So the next best thing is a combination of taking measures to protect yourself, but to also crack down on rapists. It's not the victim's fault that something happened because, and this is important, they never asked for what happened to them.

Thank you for restating my point.
Now, tell me again, where am I advocating letting rapists go easy, or suggesting people don't leave homes without an armed guard?

[Seangoli]

No.
That view was worded awfully, but ultimately it points to a true thing.
There's a massive conflation of the meanings of responsibility here which doesn't become anyone.
Let's actually draw a better analogy.

Suppose someone decides to walk at night, alone, through a shitty neighbourhood and they get mugged.
Is the victim responsible for some asshole deciding to mug them? No.
Does the mugger get to blame the victim for making him mug them? Resounding no.
However, could the victim have taken steps to avoid themselves getting mugged? Well, yes.
And, is it good that people take steps to protect themselves? Yes.

Yes. But the whole point is you shouldn't have to take those steps, and it isn't as complicated as stopping thievery and murder worldwide.

The solution to sex-related crimes/harassment is just so fucking simple, it hurts.

We don't live in a perfect world and never will. You shouldn't have to take steps to stop your house from being robbed. But you do every time you lock a door. You shouldn't have to take steps to stop yourself from being mugged. But you do every time you decide not to walk down a dark alley.

The solution is not simple. What you are talking about is controlling people's thoughts and actions. Which is impossible to do. Utterly and completely impossible. There are terrible people who just don't give two flying fucks about what you think/say. As i said, most people whoc commit these crimes likely have this mindset. There is no "simple" answer to any crime in the world, because if there were we'd have done it by now. To reiterate, we lived in one fucked up world, with many fucked up people. Most are not fucked up. Some are. We take precautions to protect ourselves from these people because ultimately we can't control them. And if we are the unfortunate victims, the perpetrators get dealt with. That is, quite literally, the best we can do outside of mind control.

[Central Slavia]

Minimizing rape culture will not prevent the act of rape, or at the least not remove it from our society. There are truly messed up people who don't give two flying fucks what the rest of society thinks, and I'm willing to bet that most rapists are of the mindset. What combating rape culture does help, however, is increase the likelihood that such crimes will be reported and dealt with, as it provides a societal message to victims that their accusations will be taken seriously and not denied offhandedly. It does not, and I personally see virtually no reason why it would, prevent the crime itself. To think this way is to assume that men within our society are defacto programmed to be rapists. Something which I find borderline insulting, to be frank. Most men are not, and have no sympathy for the crime or the criminal. But there are certain biases that absolutely need to be addressed that lead to difficulty in victims coming forward. And it's hardly just an issue of sexualization of women. Such an explanation, while a part of the whole, completely and utterly ignores the wider aspects of our society that go beyond it. I'm afraid it's far more complicated than it is simple.

Rape culture and rape are two separate issues, yes.

But bodily urges can be controlled. Rape culture is much harder to remove entirely, but it still isn't as complicated as thievery and murder.

Indeed. Rape is a real problem, rape culture is bullshit. If anything it shifts blame away from the rapist and onto some nebulous culture which made them do it.