Statistics Don't Support Rape Culture

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

And that has what to do with what I said?

I didn't say it didn't hurt people, all I said that is our species by its very nature started out and still has a lingering of a patriarchal structure.

Last I check, thats at least how two other great apes are structured, and if not our species at least started that way.

Honestly, if you want to get rid of the patriarchy for good, you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa because...holy shit....fuck the noise of Western issues, its not that bad here in comparison to some of those places, they need a cultural ass whoopin.

you ever notice that people who complain about patriarchy are from safe, western nations?

Safety is an Illusion on a large scale.

You can minimize it, prepare for it sure, but anything can happen.

The West as it is is just less dangerous than say...Saudi Arabia.

[Norstal]

Patriarchy has hurt both men and women. Women, being objects of sexual gratitude, fascination, and fragility; men, the vanguard of the state, protectors of the nation, and warriors. Countless millions have died of both sexes because of this.

And that has what to do with what I said?

I didn't say it didn't hurt people, all I said that is our species by its very nature started out and still has a lingering of a patriarchal structure.

Last I check, thats at least how two other great apes are structured, and if not our species at least started that way.

Honestly, if you want to get rid of the patriarchy for good, you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa because...holy shit....fuck the noise of Western issues, its not that bad here in comparison to some of those places, they need a cultural ass whoopin.

The only time the whole "why don't you just move to third world countries then!?" argument works is when you're arguing with libertarians and anarchists. There's no reason why these people shouldn't want social change.

[Galloism]

?

There's nothing gendered in the tax code.

men pay more taxes through income tax because they typically earn more as a group.

Which is a way women are (currently) disadvantaged.

And that has what to do with what I said?

I didn't say it didn't hurt people, all I said that is our species by its very nature started out and still has a lingering of a patriarchal structure.

Last I check, thats at least how two other great apes are structured, and if not our species at least started that way.

Honestly, if you want to get rid of the patriarchy for good, you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa because...holy shit....fuck the noise of Western issues, its not that bad here in comparison to some of those places, they need a cultural ass whoopin.

you ever notice that people who complain about patriarchy are from safe, western nations?

Hard to complain about the patriarchy when they will beat or kill you for doing so.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

And that has what to do with what I said?

I didn't say it didn't hurt people, all I said that is our species by its very nature started out and still has a lingering of a patriarchal structure.

Last I check, thats at least how two other great apes are structured, and if not our species at least started that way.

Honestly, if you want to get rid of the patriarchy for good, you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa because...holy shit....fuck the noise of Western issues, its not that bad here in comparison to some of those places, they need a cultural ass whoopin.

The only time the whole "why don't you just move to third world countries then!?" argument works is when you're arguing with libertarians and anarchists. There's no reason why these people shouldn't want social change.

....

I'm talking about relief aid and such and talking to other cultures for such actions.

How the fuck is a woman supposed to bring a form of feminism to an actual Patriarchy where she has to cover up and shit and all that?

Seriously...lets actually think here.

You need to have shit if you go over, you can't start a new in another country very easily regardless.

[Norstal]

So I came across this article while dicking around online.

The way I see it, it makes a lot of sense and strikes me as very honest. My biggest problem with the "rape culture" hysteria is that it's brought about rape shield laws that don't allow the accused to face the accuser, which wouldn't fly for any other crime in a court of law with due process.

There's also the issue that comes with how exactly activists groups go about this. Sexual assault is pretty bad, but honestly I find it infantilizing of women in that the ones who champion rape culture are usually putting all the responsibility on men. Hell, they weren't happy about the nail polish that that can detect date rape drugs in a woman's drink.

I have to wonder if some groups ever want to really end sexual assault, as I imagine they get a good bit of funding and support. It's the same reason why food evangelists like the CSPI won't go away and why ant-smoking groups go after vaporizers like they do cigarettes. There's too much money involved as far as I can tell.

So what say you, NSG?

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

[Galloism]

So I came across this article while dicking around online.

The way I see it, it makes a lot of sense and strikes me as very honest. My biggest problem with the "rape culture" hysteria is that it's brought about rape shield laws that don't allow the accused to face the accuser, which wouldn't fly for any other crime in a court of law with due process.

There's also the issue that comes with how exactly activists groups go about this. Sexual assault is pretty bad, but honestly I find it infantilizing of women in that the ones who champion rape culture are usually putting all the responsibility on men. Hell, they weren't happy about the nail polish that that can detect date rape drugs in a woman's drink.

I have to wonder if some groups ever want to really end sexual assault, as I imagine they get a good bit of funding and support. It's the same reason why food evangelists like the CSPI won't go away and why ant-smoking groups go after vaporizers like they do cigarettes. There's too much money involved as far as I can tell.

So what say you, NSG?

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

Wiki sayeth:

culture in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender, sex, and sexuality.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So I came across this article while dicking around online.

The way I see it, it makes a lot of sense and strikes me as very honest. My biggest problem with the "rape culture" hysteria is that it's brought about rape shield laws that don't allow the accused to face the accuser, which wouldn't fly for any other crime in a court of law with due process.

There's also the issue that comes with how exactly activists groups go about this. Sexual assault is pretty bad, but honestly I find it infantilizing of women in that the ones who champion rape culture are usually putting all the responsibility on men. Hell, they weren't happy about the nail polish that that can detect date rape drugs in a woman's drink.

I have to wonder if some groups ever want to really end sexual assault, as I imagine they get a good bit of funding and support. It's the same reason why food evangelists like the CSPI won't go away and why ant-smoking groups go after vaporizers like they do cigarettes. There's too much money involved as far as I can tell.

So what say you, NSG?

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

From what I understand is a set of beliefs and practices in American society which promotes practices like rape or harassment, but they are so ingrained in society we really do not notice (but in particular people talk about women when the subject comes along).

[Pope Joan]

I represented a man who was accused of domestic violence. His "violence" consisted of ripping open frozen bags of vegetables near the freezer on his porch; he used a knife. That's it. No physical threats toward anyone.

But he was not permitted to confront his accusers or examine evidence. Why? Because "the crime is so horrible".

What's horrible is doing away with our Constitutional right to due process. We make people into criminals without even giving them their day in court.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

Wiki sayeth:

culture in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender, sex, and sexuality.

I would argue on that simple definition because most people (at least I would hope most people) are against rape.

[Galloism]

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

From what I understand is a set of beliefs and practices in American society which promotes practices like rape or harassment, but they are so ingrained in society we really do not notice (but in particular people talk about women when the subject comes along).

Which happens to be somewhat ironic, as most of society is outraged by stories of rape against women.

Not so much for men.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

From what I understand is a set of beliefs and practices in American society which promotes practices like rape or harassment, but they are so ingrained in society we really do not notice (but in particular people talk about women when the subject comes along).

Which happens to be somewhat ironic, as most of society is outraged by stories of rape against women.

Not so much for men.

I dunno, I'd feel pretty outraged if I heard a guy who's in some level of proximity and relation to me was raped by a woman.

The thing is that rape is wrong. It's not so much that rape is wrong is a man does it, it's that men and women can rape an individual. The main element of rape is to gain power over the victim, sex is just the element which is used.

Domestic violence, in relation, is also abusive, but it is a manifestation of how people want to gain power over their victim. However, I've also not heard many men go to court over domestic violence issues.

Also, I'll be quick to point out that these are legitimate concerns of men, but that the misogynistic trolls tend to ruin whatever progress men are trying to make on that front.

[Norstal]

The only time the whole "why don't you just move to third world countries then!?" argument works is when you're arguing with libertarians and anarchists. There's no reason why these people shouldn't want social change.

....

I'm talking about relief aid and such and talking to other cultures for such actions.

How the fuck is a woman supposed to bring a form of feminism to an actual Patriarchy where she has to cover up and shit and all that?

Seriously...lets actually think here.

You need to have shit if you go over, you can't start a new in another country very easily regardless.

The same way Malala Yousafzai became a symbolic icon to empower girls everywhere in Pakistan or even the whole Middle East?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. Sure, our species is inherently patriarchal, but there's no reason why one shouldn't try to fight it, regardless if it's futile. Are you saying what the NAACP is useless because racism will never be eliminated since it's inherent in everyone? That's kind of absurd. They may not completely eliminate racism, just as no one can eliminate gender discrimination, but they can get close to it by believing it's achievable.

I didn't see you talking about relief aid or whatever. All you said is that patriarchy is inherent, which is true. But you also argued that "you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa" if you want to eliminate patriarchy for good, which is something I disagree with. There's no reason why the NAACP, the Southern Law Poverty Center, or the ACLU to move to other countries where they need them more, especially when the problems they're fighting against still persist in America.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Which happens to be somewhat ironic, as most of society is outraged by stories of rape against women.

Not so much for men.

I dunno, I'd feel pretty outraged if I heard a guy who's in some level of proximity and relation to me was raped by a woman.

The thing is that rape is wrong. It's not so much that rape is wrong is a man does it, it's that men and women can rape an individual. The main element of rape is to gain power over the victim, sex is just the element which is used.

Domestic violence, in relation, is also abusive, but it is a manifestation of how people want to gain power over their victim. However, I've also not heard many men go to court over domestic violence issues.

Also, I'll be quick to point out that these are legitimate concerns of men, but that the misogynistic trolls tend to ruin whatever progress men are trying to make on that front.

Sometimes its just sex against ones will.

[Norstal]

I gotta wonder, since no one in this thread seemed to have defined it yet despite having gone over 7 pages.

What is rape culture?

Wiki sayeth:

culture in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender, sex, and sexuality.

I figure as much, but I kinda want the OP to define it themselves. They're probably confused or something.

[Galloism]

Which happens to be somewhat ironic, as most of society is outraged by stories of rape against women.

Not so much for men.

I dunno, I'd feel pretty outraged if I heard a guy who's in some level of proximity and relation to me was raped by a woman.

The thing is that rape is wrong. It's not so much that rape is wrong is a man does it, it's that men and women can rape an individual. The main element of rape is to gain power over the victim, sex is just the element which is used.

Domestic violence, in relation, is also abusive, but it is a manifestation of how people want to gain power over their victim. However, I've also not heard many men go to court over domestic violence issues.

Also, I'll be quick to point out that these are legitimate concerns of men, but that the misogynistic trolls tend to ruin whatever progress men are trying to make on that front.

Eh, it's a conflagration of factors.

The MRA crowd certainly ain't helping. Conservatives are against changing the status quo. Feminist organizations seem to beat the "99% of rapists are men" statistic from the BJS when the definition was "the carnal knowledge of a woman against her will"like its an Indian rain drum.

There's no political will to execute change on this front because of the combination of false and/or misleading information and the normal resistance to change.

One of the reasons it seems so bleak out there.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sometimes its just sex against ones will.

Yes, but sex against someone's will generally precludes a general understanding of gaining power from the perpetrator.

If that wasn't the case then people would be fine and dandy when other people say "no" to sex, if it was just "sex against someone else's will".

[ISML]

I do not believe that people hitting on each other is harassment. Nor is consensual sex while drunk. I do, however believe that physical harassment should be taught as absolutely not ok.

[Firsthome]

I'm sorry. I'm male. I think women should dress however they want. If guys rape them, those guys should be jailed. For 20-30 years

Rape is sick

You have nothing to apologize for, mate. You're absolutely right on all fronts.

Thank you

I try to be reasonable

However... Being somewhat of a submissive person doesn't help with some of my views

[Haktiva]

Which is a way women are (currently) disadvantaged.

They don't work as much or work in as high paying jobs as a group.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

....

I'm talking about relief aid and such and talking to other cultures for such actions.

How the fuck is a woman supposed to bring a form of feminism to an actual Patriarchy where she has to cover up and shit and all that?

Seriously...lets actually think here.

You need to have shit if you go over, you can't start a new in another country very easily regardless.

The same way Malala Yousafzai became a symbolic icon to empower girls everywhere in Pakistan or even the whole Middle East?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. Sure, our species is inherently patriarchal, but there's no reason why one shouldn't try to fight it, regardless if it's futile. Are you saying what the NAACP is useless because racism will never be eliminated since it's inherent in everyone? That's kind of absurd. They may not completely eliminate racism, just as no one can eliminate gender discrimination, but they can get close to it by believing it's achievable.

I didn't see you talking about relief aid or whatever. All you said is that patriarchy is inherent, which is true. But you also argued that "you're gonna have to join up with several other groups and pack your bags to the Middle Eats and Africa" if you want to eliminate patriarchy for good, which is something I disagree with. There's no reason why the NAACP, the Southern Law Poverty Center, or the ACLU to move to other countries where they need them more, especially when the problems they're fighting against still persist in America.

:Head Desk:

Make it stop, please...just make it stop...

No...I am saying that you should try to change shit, just in the Middle East.

And sure, issues still exist in America, but other places need it as well, and its going to talk a cultural change to get results that mean things in the long run.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Sometimes its just sex against ones will.

Yes, but sex against someone's will generally precludes a general understanding of gaining power from the perpetrator.

If that wasn't the case then people would be fine and dandy when other people say "no" to sex, if it was just "sex against someone else's will".

It isn't always no.

Sometimes people are drunk, or its underaged (Even by a small margin for whatever reason.)

Maybe even in a case of no its just for sex.

It isn't always about power, but that doesn't make it any less disgusting (Well again, maybe not in certain statutory situations.)

[Haktiva]

Wiki sayeth:

I figure as much, but I kinda want the OP to define it themselves. They're probably confused or something.

Rape culture is where it's normal and acceptable for someone to be raped, not reviled and punishable by a knee-jerk reaction for blood. Rape against women is pretty much universally viewed as reprehensible(a sentiment I share).

When a man is raped, that's much more acceptable according to society(if it happens in prison they deserve it, if it's done by a woman he's luckily, etc). If anything there's a rape culture against men, since nobody seems to give a shit about them. Plus most men are to proud or stupid to admit weakness and vulnerability.

[Haktiva]

I dunno, I'd feel pretty outraged if I heard a guy who's in some level of proximity and relation to me was raped by a woman.

The thing is that rape is wrong. It's not so much that rape is wrong is a man does it, it's that men and women can rape an individual. The main element of rape is to gain power over the victim, sex is just the element which is used.

Domestic violence, in relation, is also abusive, but it is a manifestation of how people want to gain power over their victim. However, I've also not heard many men go to court over domestic violence issues.

Also, I'll be quick to point out that these are legitimate concerns of men, but that the misogynistic trolls tend to ruin whatever progress men are trying to make on that front.

Eh, it's a conflagration of factors.

The MRA crowd certainly ain't helping. Conservatives are against changing the status quo. Feminist organizations seem to beat the "99% of rapists are men" statistic from the BJS when the definition was "the carnal knowledge of a woman against her will"like its an Indian rain drum.

There's no political will to execute change on this front because of the combination of false and/or misleading information and the normal resistance to change.

One of the reasons it seems so bleak out there.

And why MGTOW is growing. I guess PUAs too, but I can't stand those guys so whatever.

[Firsthome]

I figure as much, but I kinda want the OP to define it themselves. They're probably confused or something.

Rape culture is where it's normal and acceptable for someone to be raped, not reviled and punishable by a knee-jerk reaction for blood. Rape against women is pretty much universally viewed as reprehensible(a sentiment I share).

When a man is raped, that's much more acceptable according to society(if it happens in prison they deserve it, if it's done by a woman he's luckily, etc). If anything there's a rape culture against men, since nobody seems to give a shit about them. Plus most men are to proud or stupid to admit weakness and vulnerability.

Most men.
I'm not proud, or stupid

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, but sex against someone's will generally precludes a general understanding of gaining power from the perpetrator.

If that wasn't the case then people would be fine and dandy when other people say "no" to sex, if it was just "sex against someone else's will".

It isn't always no.

Sometimes people are drunk, or its underaged (Even by a small margin for whatever reason.)

Maybe even in a case of no its just for sex.

It isn't always about power, but that doesn't make it any less disgusting (Well again, maybe not in certain statutory situations.)

You do understand the principle of "don't have sex with someone if they're drunk and you're not, or are less drunk than them" right?