British 2015 general election poll

[Olivaero]

Look what these Nazis are selling!

yep alyakia's right only option is to go full salmond

Y'know I recently read an interview with salmond recently changed my opinion on the man a bit. It helps he's ruled out helping out the conservatives in any circumstances even if they effectively offered the SNP everything they ask for stopping just short of full independence. Also I like that he's going back to Westminster.

[Salandriagado]

mkay, i understand


Yes but I take a look at these below average earners:

Lollipop ladies £3,187 average p/a (+4.9% yearly change)
Theme park attendants £6,011 (-10.9%)
Bar staff £7,317 (-1.0%)
Playworkers £7,400 (-3.8%)
Waiters & waitresses ( £7,654 +8.3%)
Cleaners £8,067 (+1.9%)
Florists £8,960 (-6.0%)
Hairdressers £10,174 (+0.9%)
Fitness instructors £10,378 (-8.4%)
Shopworkers £11,174 (+0.3%)
Cooks £11,346 (-7.4%)
Nursery nurses £11,163 (-0.4%)
Beauticians £12,418 (+5.3%)
Window cleaners £12,561 (-11.2%)
Receptionists £12,595 (+1.8%)
Care workers £12,804 (+0.9%)
Childminders £12,949 (+2.3%)

So the good news is that more than half have had their wages increased on average, despite it being some pretty low and below inflation figures. So tell me is the future really as bleak as you make it out to be?

But then again, do any of these professions require any more than primary school education? The top earners (top 10) mostly need a masters, except for MPs and Chief execs. I'm not saying that people are useless because they didn't have enough education, but their employment itself is already a success.

Lollipop ladies work two or three hours a day.
Nearly all of those sectors are flooded with part-time workers, which is obviously going to bring their average wage down. Theme park attendants I know from experience are staffed by kids fresh out of school who earn the bottom tier of minimum wage, and bar staff, playworkers, waiters and to a lesser degree cooks will be heavily staffed by students, hence why they appear so low down the list.

Theme parks also have a tendency to abuse legal loopholes to pay people well below minimum wage.

[Grave_n_idle]

Technically I live on five, but I don't pay tax.

Yes but then you can't call it poverty because you don't have a full-time job or are on benefits

Earning 14 000 a year is definitely not poverty.

That's a nonsensical statement. If your rent was £150 a week, for example - you'd already have spent half your money just paying for the walls around you, and you haven't even turned on the electricity or hooked up a phone yet. And £150 a week wouldn't be a high rent.

Depending on where you live, etc - it's entirely possible that £14,000 might not even pay your rent - so trying to apply some universal claim that it's not a poverty level wage is ridiculous. It definitely could be - and for a family, it probably always is.

[British Home Counties]

Yes but then you can't call it poverty because you don't have a full-time job or are on benefits

Earning 14 000 a year is definitely not poverty.

That's a nonsensical statement. If your rent was £150 a week, for example - you'd already have spent half your money just paying for the walls around you, and you haven't even turned on the electricity or hooked up a phone yet. And £150 a week wouldn't be a high rent.

Depending on where you live, etc - it's entirely possible that £14,000 might not even pay your rent - so trying to apply some universal claim that it's not a poverty level wage is ridiculous. It definitely could be - and for a family, it probably always is.

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

[Arglorand]

yep alyakia's right only option is to go full salmond

Y'know I recently read an interview with salmond recently changed my opinion on the man a bit. It helps he's ruled out helping out the conservatives in any circumstances even if they effectively offered the SNP everything they ask for stopping just short of full independence. Also I like that he's going back to Westminster.

Granted, let's be honest, an SNP deal with the Tories would compromise the party so badly that it would go into furious meltdown.

Any explicitly pro-independence Scots would just jump over to the Greens, while the less convinced would just reject politics in general (for many of whom that would mean a return to the status quo ante referendum). The SNP can't afford that sort of decision, so it's not quite surprising they ruled it out.

[Grave_n_idle]

That's a nonsensical statement. If your rent was £150 a week, for example - you'd already have spent half your money just paying for the walls around you, and you haven't even turned on the electricity or hooked up a phone yet. And £150 a week wouldn't be a high rent.

Depending on where you live, etc - it's entirely possible that £14,000 might not even pay your rent - so trying to apply some universal claim that it's not a poverty level wage is ridiculous. It definitely could be - and for a family, it probably always is.

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

For some reason, you assume that everyone is single, that they don't drive, that they don't basically have to have a phone for work (or to get work), and any number of other factors. Transport, for example - in my case, is about £2500 a year.

And as for the idea that £150 is 'middle class' - unless you're a student living in someone's spare bedroom, not really. You just appear to have no idea of what working families in the UK are actually spending - and it sounds like it's deliberate, because you've got an argument you want to make, and you're having to fit 'facts' to it.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's a nonsensical statement. If your rent was £150 a week, for example - you'd already have spent half your money just paying for the walls around you, and you haven't even turned on the electricity or hooked up a phone yet. And £150 a week wouldn't be a high rent.

Depending on where you live, etc - it's entirely possible that £14,000 might not even pay your rent - so trying to apply some universal claim that it's not a poverty level wage is ridiculous. It definitely could be - and for a family, it probably always is.

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

This leaves you seventeen pounds a week to get to and from your minimum-wage job. And do anything ever.
That's legitimately not enough for anyone to live on.

[British Home Counties]

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

For some reason, you assume that everyone is single, that they don't drive, that they don't basically have to have a phone for work (or to get work), and any number of other factors. Transport, for example - in my case, is about £2500 a year.

For some reason, you jump into this conversation, you assume you know everything, you completely ignore previous posts, you completely ignore the fact that no family with 2 children will live on 14k, you completely disregard the prerequisites set for the above example, and then you complain that I'm doing something wrong.

And as for the idea that £150 is 'middle class' - unless you're a student living in someone's spare bedroom, not really. You just appear to have no idea of what working families in the UK are actually spending - and it sounds like it's deliberate, because you've got an argument you want to make, and you're having to fit 'facts' to it.

Yes because 150 pounds is the universal cut-off point around the entire UK to be "realistic". 150 pounds is upper class in less developed parts of Northern Ireland.

[Grave_n_idle]

For some reason, you jump into this conversation, you assume you know everything,

Not at all. Just more than you.

...you completely ignore previous posts, you completely ignore the fact that no family with 2 children will live on 14k,

Don't be ridiculous. Lots of families with two children are certainly living on just that. Or less. But I didn't invent the number, now did I? Just pointed out that your claim it was nowhere near poverty was horseshit.

you completely disregard the prerequisites set for the above example, and then you complain that I'm doing something wrong.

You are. Not least, citing something, then pretending it was someone else's idea to defend.

Yes because 150 pounds is the universal cut-off point around the entire UK to be "realistic". 150 pounds is upper class in less developed parts of Northern Ireland.

See, here you are doing it again. I came up with a number based on accomodation in rural Lincolnshire (since it's a market I've been looking at a lot, myself - and it's far from 'middle class'. And it's definitely not at the urban end of the spectrum).

I pointed out that you can live in a place that costs less than that - for example, if you ARE a single student, living ina rented bedroom, with no kids.

I didn't say it was a 'universal cut-off point'. Almost exactly the opposite, in fact. I attacked YOUR ridiculous generalisation.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Alex Salmond really needs to step back and let Nicola Sturgeon have a go.

[British Home Counties]

For some reason, you jump into this conversation, you assume you know everything,

Not at all. Just more than you.

Evidence points to the contrary.

...you completely ignore previous posts, you completely ignore the fact that no family with 2 children will live on 14k,

Don't be ridiculous. Lots of families with two children are certainly living on just that. Or less. But I didn't invent the number, now did I? Just pointed out that your claim it was nowhere near poverty was horseshit.

Whether this is or isn't true is absolutely not my intention of this conversation. The conversation was whether a single person earning 14k a year can live with the basic necessities. The answer is yes.

you completely disregard the prerequisites set for the above example, and then you complain that I'm doing something wrong.

You are. Not least, citing something, then pretending it was someone else's idea to defend.

How can I disregard my own prerequisites? Wh.. what?

Yes because 150 pounds is the universal cut-off point around the entire UK to be "realistic". 150 pounds is upper class in less developed parts of Northern Ireland.

See, here you are doing it again. I came up with a number based on accomodation in rural Lincolnshire (since it's a market I've been looking at a lot, myself - and it's far from 'middle class'. And it's definitely not at the urban end of the spectrum).

Ok. I'm doing the same for my area. 150 pw can easily get you a semidetached in a nice neighbourhood. It's not universal.

I pointed out that you can live in a place that costs less than that - for example, if you ARE a single student, living ina rented bedroom, with no kids.

If you're a student you're not going to be earning 14k a year working full time...

Anyways, I don't want this to devolve into an argument so I'll leave this here.

[Imperializt Russia]

I pointed out that you can live in a place that costs less than that - for example, if you ARE a single student, living ina rented bedroom, with no kids.

If you're a student you're not going to be earning 14k a year working full time...

Anyways, I don't want this to devolve into an argument so I'll leave this here.

Doctorates and certain postgraduate degrees do pay you this.
However, since you're a student, you're still exempt from income and council taxes, so you're artificially wealthier than the income suggests.

[Pesda]

That's a nonsensical statement. If your rent was £150 a week, for example - you'd already have spent half your money just paying for the walls around you, and you haven't even turned on the electricity or hooked up a phone yet. And £150 a week wouldn't be a high rent.

Depending on where you live, etc - it's entirely possible that £14,000 might not even pay your rent - so trying to apply some universal claim that it's not a poverty level wage is ridiculous. It definitely could be - and for a family, it probably always is.

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

For some reason your year only has 48 weeks in it. If all your other assumptions are correct:
14000-680 income tax- 955 council tax= 12365 after tax
12365- (150*52=7800) rent=4565
4565- (55*52=2860) food=1705
1705- 1600 gas electric and water= 105.
That's £105 a year left over without transport considered.

[Kingdoms of Cal]

Look what these Nazis are selling!

yep alyakia's right only option is to go full salmond

That's only an option if you live in Gordon, he's not standing anywhere else and is just a msp and ppc for westminster. I think you mean go full Sturgeon, she's the one in charge now.

[Kingdoms of Cal]

Alex Salmond really needs to step back and let Nicola Sturgeon have a go.

He has, but the media are obsessed with him, mostly because he is an easier target that sturgeon. I love the fact that according to polls sturgeon is the only leader of a large party that gets positive ratings all over the UK, not just in scotland.

[Alyakia]

s1rental.com

923 flats to rent in glasgow!

sorry i can only afford a maximum of £200

3 flats to rent in glasgow.

3691 flats to rent in scotland!

sorry i can only afford a maximum of £200

6 flats to rent in scotland!

Look what these Nazis are selling!

yep alyakia's right only option is to go full salmond

:toot:

[Atlanticatia]

150? Maybe in an middle class area, but let's take it. For a single person:

14 000 - 7200 rent = 6 800
55 (food) p/w x 12 months = 2640 = 4 160 left
1200 for Gas & Electricity = 2 960 left
400 for Water = 2 560 left

14 000 - 10 600 allowance = 3400 - 680 (Basic 20%) = 1 880 left
Taking my borough's band A council tax (955 p/a) = 925 left and all basic necessities for life are covered

You will have very little money left over for luxuries, but to call it poverty is just out of touch with reality. You're not going to be freezing in your home, starving 12 - 18 with no water every weekend. Material poverty, perhaps. But 14k p/a is not poverty.

Depending on your priorities, you will still be able to afford telecommunications and probably an insurance of some kind.

For some reason your year only has 48 weeks in it. If all your other assumptions are correct:
14000-680 income tax- 955 council tax= 12365 after tax
12365- (150*52=7800) rent=4565
4565- (55*52=2860) food=1705
1705- 1600 gas electric and water= 105.
That's £105 a year left over without transport considered.

Also don't you need to subtract National Insurance? On a salary of £14k you'd pay £712.80 of NI a year. So when you subtract that, you're in debt as you're left with a debt of £-607.80.

So you can't even afford the basics on a salary like that as a single person. Hopefully you can walk everywhere you go, too. What about a cell phone, or internet? I'd say those are pretty essential for employment in 2015. And god forbid you want to enjoy your life once in a while, perhaps go out for a meal or drink, go visit family in another part of the country, have a day trip somewhere, etc. Or do poor people not get to have leisure time? On that salary you'd essentially be confined to a life of sleeping, eating, and going to work. On the weekends, you'd have to sit inside all day as you'd have nothing to do. (Better turn the lights off, too, so your utility bill doesn't get too high.)

Edit: I guess you also have to consider that in those circumstances you'd be entitled to Working Tax Credit of £2,744.56 per year which is £52.78 per week. But that still only leaves you with an available income of £2,137 per year, or £41 per week. So you're left with £41 per week for transport costs, internet/phone, and god forbid you want to have leisure time.

(And it's kind of unfortunate that someone who is working full-time has to depend on the state to make ends meet because of employers' failure to pay a living wage.)

[Hydesland]

You guys are wasting your time with this analysis as you've misunderstood the original stats: those statistics cited originally are post tax and post housing cost income: "These sums of money are measured after income tax, council tax and housing costs have been deducted, where housing costs include rents, mortgage interest (but not the repayment of principal), buildings insurance and water charges. They therefore represent what the household has available to spend on everything else it needs, from food and heating to travel and entertainment."

Source

[The UK in Exile]

You guys are wasting your time with this analysis as you've misunderstood the original stats: those statistics cited originally are post tax and post housing cost income: "These sums of money are measured after income tax, council tax and housing costs have been deducted, where housing costs include rents, mortgage interest (but not the repayment of principal), buildings insurance and water charges. They therefore represent what the household has available to spend on everything else it needs, from food and heating to travel and entertainment."

Source

the average median income is £17,836, which would make the 50% threshold £8918.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

Yaaah, I really don't get why people here would want UKIP in.

By "here" do you mean the UK, or NSG?

Oh I mean here in NSG.
There's definitely some communities that would want UKIP in IRL.

I just thought NSG was better informed than those communities.

[Alyakia]

By "here" do you mean the UK, or NSG?

Oh I mean here in NSG.
There's definitely some communities that would want UKIP in IRL.

I just thought NSG was better informed than those communities.

i feel like a right-winger in PC gone mad britain because i know the answer but i can't say it

[British Home Counties]

You guys are wasting your time with this analysis as you've misunderstood the original stats: those statistics cited originally are post tax and post housing cost income: "These sums of money are measured after income tax, council tax and housing costs have been deducted, where housing costs include rents, mortgage interest (but not the repayment of principal), buildings insurance and water charges. They therefore represent what the household has available to spend on everything else it needs, from food and heating to travel and entertainment."

Source

the average median income is £17,836, which would make the 50% threshold £8918.

Is that per taxpayer, per capita or per household?

[The UK in Exile]

the average median income is £17,836, which would make the 50% threshold £8918.

Is that per taxpayer, per capita or per household?

Per taxpayer.

available here. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... 10-to-2011

EDIT: actually I should clarify, a slight more up to date but similar figure is available there. the other figure was drawn from wiki.

[Lunas Legion]

Oh I mean here in NSG.
There's definitely some communities that would want UKIP in IRL.

I just thought NSG was better informed than those communities.

i feel like a right-winger in PC gone mad britain because i know the answer but i can't say it

Say it anyway.

[Alyakia]

i feel like a right-winger in PC gone mad britain because i know the answer but i can't say it

Say it anyway.

americans

more accurately posters from other counties, the majority of which happen to be americans and consequently a fan of more right-wing parties