U.K.I.P. and The Greens.

[Holyrood]

Funny how over the past three days every single paper has ran a story about how Milliband is in trouble due to the SNP, Greens, AND UKIP picking up votes in Red Tory strongholds and yet people still claim UKIP deserves to be in the debates but the other two don't. Pure stupidity, it's time to shut the BBC down.

Look, the SNP aren't getting on a national debate about issues mostly not relevant to them and hijacking it. The getting on is what would be pure stupidity. I and most British people outside Scotland don't care what the SNP have to say about UK wide issues, as we can't vote for them. However virtually everyone can vote UKIP in 2015 and most people will have the chance to vote Green. The SNP just aren't that important on a national level and trying to shoehorn them in as equal or more important to two fully national parties to the nation as a whole in a general election is silly.

As happened last time the proper place for them is in regional debates with the Scottish leaders of the parties standing in Scotland.

We'll see what you say after the election when Milliband is forced into a coalition with them and PC.

[The Nihilistic view]

Look, the SNP aren't getting on a national debate about issues mostly not relevant to them and hijacking it. The getting on is what would be pure stupidity. I and most British people outside Scotland don't care what the SNP have to say about UK wide issues, as we can't vote for them. However virtually everyone can vote UKIP in 2015 and most people will have the chance to vote Green. The SNP just aren't that important on a national level and trying to shoehorn them in as equal or more important to two fully national parties to the nation as a whole in a general election is silly.

As happened last time the proper place for them is in regional debates with the Scottish leaders of the parties standing in Scotland.

We'll see what you say after the election when Milliband is forced into a coalition with them and PC.

I don't think any of them are stupid enough to risk the possible fallout from that. (It would be a UKIP dream though,the perfect situation for them to attack and gain more support) Confidence and supply is the most one can expect.

[Holyrood]

We'll see what you say after the election when Milliband is forced into a coalition with them and PC.

I don't think any of them are stupid enough to risk the possible fallout from that. (It would be a UKIP dream though,the perfect situation for them to attack and gain more support) Confidence and supply is the most one can expect.

Which will still force Milliband to give into demands for some sort of devolution. Giving UKIP more fodder

[Pesda]

Funny how over the past three days every single paper has ran a story about how Milliband is in trouble due to the SNP, Greens, AND UKIP picking up votes in Red Tory strongholds and yet people still claim UKIP deserves to be in the debates but the other two don't. Pure stupidity, it's time to shut the BBC down.

Look, the SNP aren't getting on a national debate about issues mostly not relevant to them and hijacking it. The getting on is what would be pure stupidity. I and most British people outside Scotland don't care what the SNP have to say about UK wide issues, as we can't vote for them. However virtually everyone can vote UKIP in 2015 and most people will have the chance to vote Green. The SNP just aren't that important on a national level and trying to shoehorn them in as equal or more important to two fully national parties to the nation as a whole in a general election is silly.

As happened last time the proper place for them is in regional debates with the Scottish leaders of the parties standing in Scotland.

Interesting that you call the UK debates "national" and the Scottish debates "regional."

[Holyrood]

Look, the SNP aren't getting on a national debate about issues mostly not relevant to them and hijacking it. The getting on is what would be pure stupidity. I and most British people outside Scotland don't care what the SNP have to say about UK wide issues, as we can't vote for them. However virtually everyone can vote UKIP in 2015 and most people will have the chance to vote Green. The SNP just aren't that important on a national level and trying to shoehorn them in as equal or more important to two fully national parties to the nation as a whole in a general election is silly.

As happened last time the proper place for them is in regional debates with the Scottish leaders of the parties standing in Scotland.

Interesting that you call the UK debates "national" and the Scottish debates "regional."

It's also interesting that the English don't consider UKIP and the Lib-Dems to be " regional" parties even though both parties are only going to win seats in England. But of course their policies are aimed at the entire U.K., not like devolution isn't an issue for every region in the U.K. right now or anything. We totally haven't seen anyone saying that England should have it's own parliment, Scottish MPs should only be able to vote on Scottish matters, etc. Not like Wales, Cornwall,and North Ireland have devolution parties either. And UKIP TOTALLY isn't calling for any sort of English devolution by wanting to ban Scottish and other regional MPs from voting on English matters. That's totally not any part of why they are popular. Devolution totally isn't a U.K. wide issue and they are totally not just being racist instead of facing cold hard facts. Totally. "Better Together"

[Old Tyrannia]

It's also interesting that the English don't consider UKIP and the Lib-Dems to be " regional" parties even though both parties are only going to win seats in England.

I'm sorry?

You see all that mustard-yellow in Scotland? Yeah, LibDem constituencies. The Highlands are a Liberal Democrat stronghold.

[Holyrood]

It's also interesting that the English don't consider UKIP and the Lib-Dems to be " regional" parties even though both parties are only going to win seats in England.

I'm sorry?

You see all that mustard-yellow in Scotland? Yeah, LibDem constituencies. The Highlands are a Liberal Democrat stronghold.

What they won in 2010 isn't relevant. If we go by 2010 figures then UKIP doesn't matter and that clearly isn't the case according to the English

[Nadkor]

Look, the SNP aren't getting on a national debate about issues mostly not relevant to them and hijacking it. The getting on is what would be pure stupidity. I and most British people outside Scotland don't care what the SNP have to say about UK wide issues, as we can't vote for them. However virtually everyone can vote UKIP in 2015 and most people will have the chance to vote Green. The SNP just aren't that important on a national level and trying to shoehorn them in as equal or more important to two fully national parties to the nation as a whole in a general election is silly.

As happened last time the proper place for them is in regional debates with the Scottish leaders of the parties standing in Scotland.

Interesting that you call the UK debates "national" and the Scottish debates "regional."

In this context? Yes. That's precisely right.

I mean, fuck, Labour, the Lib Dems, and, apart from a few token efforts here and there, the Tories don't even stand in one of the four constituent countries. Yet, even as a member of one of those parties who would like them to stand, you don't see me arguing that they aren't national parties.

[Celritannia]

Speaking of regional/Constituent Country politics, this is just my opinion, but if a government truly understands their citizens then why aren't the the First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland automatically the Secretary of State for Scotland, Wales & NI?

But then again, I am a technocrat/meritocrat and believe more power should be given to those who have the abilities, as well as removing a single party government.

Again, just my opinion.

[Buse]

Had somebody heard to UK Calypso?

[Svatantra Mulukama]

It's also interesting that the English don't consider UKIP and the Lib-Dems to be " regional" parties even though both parties are only going to win seats in England.

I'm sorry?

You see all that mustard-yellow in Scotland? Yeah, LibDem constituencies. The Highlands are a Liberal Democrat stronghold.

Not only that, but neither the UKIP and LibDems focus almost exclusively on English issues. Now, true regional parties, like Plaid or the SNP focus almost exclusively on issues in their respective regions.

[Holyrood]

I'm sorry?

You see all that mustard-yellow in Scotland? Yeah, LibDem constituencies. The Highlands are a Liberal Democrat stronghold.

Not only that, but neither the UKIP and LibDems focus almost exclusively on English issues. Now, true regional parties, like Plaid or the SNP focus almost exclusively on issues in their respective regions.

You're shitting me right? UKIP doesn't outright state it, but name one policy that they have that isn't aimed at helping England before anyone else.

The Lib-Dems are just grasping at straws now. They know they can only win in England and we'll see their policy changes reflect that.

Both are regional parties.

[Svatantra Mulukama]

Not only that, but neither the UKIP and LibDems focus almost exclusively on English issues. Now, true regional parties, like Plaid or the SNP focus almost exclusively on issues in their respective regions.

You're shitting me right? UKIP doesn't outright state it, but name one policy that they have that isn't aimed at helping England before anyone else.

The Lib-Dems are just grasping at straws now. They know they can only win in England and we'll see their policy changes reflect that.

Both are regional parties.

I can't believe I'm defending the UKIP right now, which I find abhorrent. Anyways, their policies are intended to affect the UK as a whole. Their immigration, domestic, and foreign policies would effect the entirety of the UK, just as the policies of the Tories, or the policies that Labour implemented did. To say that they are only trying to help England is a bit silly. Now,if you were to say that they only want to help upper middle class and wealthy white citizens of the UK, then you might have a point.

And, just because they will probably lose their Scottish seats, that doesn't make the LibDems a regional party.

[Vashtanaraada]

You're shitting me right? UKIP doesn't outright state it, but name one policy that they have that isn't aimed at helping England before anyone else.

The Lib-Dems are just grasping at straws now. They know they can only win in England and we'll see their policy changes reflect that.

Both are regional parties.

I can't believe I'm defending the UKIP right now, which I find abhorrent. Anyways, their policies are intended to affect the UK as a whole. Their immigration, domestic, and foreign policies would effect the entirety of the UK, just as the policies of the Tories, or the policies that Labour implemented did. To say that they are only trying to help England is a bit silly. Now,if you were to say that they only want to help upper middle class and wealthy white citizens of the UK, then you might have a point.

And, just because they will probably lose their Scottish seats, that doesn't make the LibDems a regional party.

The Greens could still have a case within Scotland and their assembly, and England with the one MP though.

[The Matthew Islands]

I can't believe I'm defending the UKIP right now, which I find abhorrent. Anyways, their policies are intended to affect the UK as a whole. Their immigration, domestic, and foreign policies would effect the entirety of the UK, just as the policies of the Tories, or the policies that Labour implemented did. To say that they are only trying to help England is a bit silly. Now,if you were to say that they only want to help upper middle class and wealthy white citizens of the UK, then you might have a point.

And, just because they will probably lose their Scottish seats, that doesn't make the LibDems a regional party.

The Greens could still have a case within Scotland and their assembly, and England with the one MP though.

The Greens don't have a case because, quite frankly, the greens do not have anything close to amount of support or relevance to ve considered a 'force' in British politics.

[Vashtanaraada]

The Greens could still have a case within Scotland and their assembly, and England with the one MP though.

The Greens don't have a case because, quite frankly, the greens do not have anything close to amount of support or relevance to ve considered a 'force' in British politics.

I wish the left stopped being divided to prove you wrong

[Martean]

The Greens don't have a case because, quite frankly, the greens do not have anything close to amount of support or relevance to ve considered a 'force' in British politics.

I wish the left stopped being divided to prove you wrong

The left is divided throughout all european countries, it's natural for us to differenciate much more between ourselves that what the right does.

And yet the left manages to win some elections, despite being so divided.

[The Nihilistic view]

Speaking of regional/Constituent Country politics, this is just my opinion, but if a government truly understands their citizens then why aren't the the First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland automatically the Secretary of State for Scotland, Wales & NI?

But then again, I am a technocrat/meritocrat and believe more power should be given to those who have the abilities, as well as removing a single party government.

Again, just my opinion.

Because the remit of the First Ministers is only to deal with powers that are devolved. Westminster and therefore the party in government are responsible for the rest through the relevant secretaries and other government departments.

[The UK in Exile]

Speaking of regional/Constituent Country politics, this is just my opinion, but if a government truly understands their citizens then why aren't the the First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland automatically the Secretary of State for Scotland, Wales & NI?

But then again, I am a technocrat/meritocrat and believe more power should be given to those who have the abilities, as well as removing a single party government.

Again, just my opinion.

The Secretary of State for Scotland and the SoS for Wales are both MP's from those respective nations. given the position that a Secretary of State must be accountable to parliament and the Commons, this rules out members of devolved legislatures. it would obviously be highly insulting to appoint a first minister in nation as a junior in another.

[Kingdoms of Cal]

Speaking of regional/Constituent Country politics, this is just my opinion, but if a government truly understands their citizens then why aren't the the First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland automatically the Secretary of State for Scotland, Wales & NI?

But then again, I am a technocrat/meritocrat and believe more power should be given to those who have the abilities, as well as removing a single party government.

Again, just my opinion.

The Secretary of State for Scotland and the SoS for Wales are both MP's from those respective nations. given the position that a Secretary of State must be accountable to parliament and the Commons, this rules out members of devolved legislatures. it would obviously be highly insulting to appoint a first minister in nation as a junior in another.

Also it has been made abundantly clear that they are the government's man/woman in the nations that aren't England. Not the nations' person in the government.

[Celritannia]

Speaking of regional/Constituent Country politics, this is just my opinion, but if a government truly understands their citizens then why aren't the the First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland automatically the Secretary of State for Scotland, Wales & NI?

But then again, I am a technocrat/meritocrat and believe more power should be given to those who have the abilities, as well as removing a single party government.

Again, just my opinion.

Because the remit of the First Ministers is only to deal with powers that are devolved. Westminster and therefore the party in government are responsible for the rest through the relevant secretaries and other government departments.

Perhaps then the SoS of each devolved country should be abolished.
Since most powers of those Ministries have now been devolved it seems strange.

The Secretary of State for Scotland and the SoS for Wales are both MP's from those respective nations. given the position that a Secretary of State must be accountable to parliament and the Commons, this rules out members of devolved legislatures. it would obviously be highly insulting to appoint a first minister in nation as a junior in another.

But the UK Parliament still has the ability to amend or repeal the devolved legislatures.
But I understand the First Ministers being insulted being a junior minister in the UK Government.

As I said, the post of SoS of the devolved countries should be removed, or actually have a member of the devolved governments as SoS of the respective countries.

Another idea I had in mind was one quite a few pages back.

About bloody time we got ourselves some proportional representation.

This.
And establish regional English Assemblies by making the current constituencies represented in each Assembly, then the HoC MP's being reorganised to represent each county, thus lowering the number of MP's in the national legislature.

[The Nihilistic view]

It's like the EU want UKIP to win.

[Angleter]

It's like the EU want UKIP to win.

Not a bad tactic. The better UKIP do, the fewer people want to leave the EU.

[Dejanic]

It's like the EU want UKIP to win.

I think the EU just wants Britain to stop fucking about and either integrate further, or leave, this "half in half out" crap that Cameron is trying to push makes no sense and just hurts Britains reputation.

Even as a Eurofederalist, I'd rather us just have the referendum and either become a fully functioning EU member, or leave, this middle ground stinks.

[The Nihilistic view]

It's like the EU want UKIP to win.

Not a bad tactic. The better UKIP do, the fewer people want to leave the EU.

The main facilitator to that is Cameron's renegotiation followed by a referendum pledge. I know a lot of people especially people who are Tory voters who have changed their mind based on this over the last year or so. So with events like this and what I see as his inevitable failure we shall see what happens in a couple of years.