Gamergate, Feminisim, and Journalistic Ethics

[The Black Forrest]

Ugh, this again. There are shitlords on both sides, with all the different voices reporting on GG the message has been lost amid a mix of harassment, white knights, and people choosing to focus solely on the harassment. Not a big fan of this whole thing, and what both sides have done. I do wish that the journalists would own up to what they did.

I'd like to take a moment to comment on the word "shitlord." "Shitlord" was proliferated by the Tumblr-feminist set as something that supposedly would be a method of insulting people that would not offensively refer to a real group of people.

First issue that crops up, immediately, is that "lord" is a masculine noun. For a general-purpose insult, in other words, it's already restricting itself to appropriate use on only half the population. Now, is there a predominantly masculine group of people who could be literally referred to as being lords of shit?

Well... yes. Sewage treatment people are overwhelmingly male, perform an absolutely essential job, and are severely under-appreciated by society.

...

[Central Slavia]

Actually, there is. Quinn solicited PayPal donations... donations that supposedly went to a charity who have never heard of her, i.e. lined her own pockets. http://theflounce.com/ifred-national-su ... ion-quest/
Consider this article.
E:
And yes, it turns out some money did get there in the end, and there was some extent of premature conclusions being made, but still, given that nobody has any idea of the proceeds raised, it hardly is an end to the whole topic (as the post above indeed says)

Isn't gamergate only supposed to be about game journalism?

Allright, for the slow class.
The issue was, what was there to gain by soliciting for fake publicity by Quinn when the game has no profit-garnering mechanism. An obvious counterargument is showing that it has one.

Ookay, did we watch the same video at all?
The problem isn't the plain unavailability of Shadow of Mordor prior to release to reviewers. If it was just that... well, that would be the company's derp, but like, their fault, their problem - it's in their interest to have reviews of their game if they want to reach out the public that, well,goes with the opinions of the reviewers.

And? Shit never happens? That's the thing. I hear the suggestions of conspiracies.

How I love this. So, it's a bad idea if the #gamergate crowd don't cover an attempt to enforce fake positive reviews because it shows they only care about Quinn and a couple other scumbags in person, and it's a bad idea if they do cover it, because it's apparently nothing notable.
Make up your mind.

However, what they did was to condition such reviewing by essentially dictating the reviewer's opinion in advance, making a complete farce of the whole process. The only reason this isn't all over the newspapers is that games are a fairly niche market - a car manufacturer trying to do the same would be met with public scorn.

So you think this thing is a game only thing? It isn't. Two quick examples that come two mind. The shrubs press people did that once and I was at a movie preview. Species in fact. Crappy film but they didn't want those comments.

... where did I say it's a game only thing again?
It's unethical no matter where it happens, 's the thing, on the same level as fabricating reviews outright, which is also a rampant problem in certain circles.
And, the reason I mentioned car manufacturers - I remember there was a messup in Germany recently over some automotive journal being in the pockets of one such manufacturer groups... sadly, I can't find the details offhand, possibly because I dunno german - but I heard about it from our (Slovak) state radio. Which sort of shows that it was given attention, doesn't it.

[Hirota]

So you think this thing is a game only thing? It isn't. Two quick examples that come two mind. The shrubs press people did that once and I was at a movie preview. Species in fact. Crappy film but they didn't want those comments.

... where did I say it's a game only thing again?
It's unethical no matter where it happens, 's the thing, on the same level as fabricating reviews outright, which is also a rampant problem in certain circles.
And, the reason I mentioned car manufacturers - I remember there was a messup in Germany recently over some automotive journal being in the pockets of one such manufacturer groups... sadly, I can't find the details offhand, possibly because I dunno german - but I heard about it from our (Slovak) state radio. Which sort of shows that it was given attention, doesn't it.

I for one welcome our brothers and sisters in #drivergate taking a similar stand of exposing corruption in the the media focused on cars. And for our comerades in arms in the #cinemagate, we stand alongside side with them in exposing corruption in the movie journalism industry.

It would be nice to imagine. It's almost a shame that the cinema journalism industry are not antagonising their central demographic by declaring cinema-goers dead.

Not to mention there is something about the psyche of your average gamer rather than your average car owner. As gamers, we're people programmed to win, to grind and slog for months for a prize, we can put up with having the most horrendous insults thrown at us. The strategy employed by SJW's up to now has been to slander and outlast this kind of person. Hah, good luck with that.

[Lordieth]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

[Ifreann]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

I lol'd.

[Central Slavia]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Reminds me of Obama's opponents being labelled as racists.

[Ifreann]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Reminds me of Obama's opponents being labelled as racists.

Me too, but probably for different reasons.

[The Rich Port]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

[Ifreann]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Honestly... I like her videos.

The problem with watching her videos is that YouTube now seems to think that I want to see any video with her name attached to it, like videos of people presumably angry at her for wearing earrings or other such shit.

[The Rich Port]

Honestly... I like her videos.

The problem with watching her videos is that YouTube now seems to think that I want to see any video with her name attached to it, like videos of people presumably angry at her for wearing earrings or other such
shit.

I would say just don't click on them, but I remember one of the recommended videos was of some shitlord in a dress and wig.

That's... I can't pass that up.

[Central Slavia]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

Hello, Rich Port.
I would like to introduce you to the concept of plagiarism
Tom Lehrer will do it for me.

[Len Hyet]

Anita Sarkeesian is using the alleged threats made against her to further her own career. Threatening people is abhorrent, regardless of reason, but Anita Sarkeesian time and time again has lied and manipulated to further her career. She's been on record as saying she doesn't play videogames. She's apparantly taken play through footage from others and claimed it as her own. She blocks comments on all her youtube videos, and provides no evidence for her spurious claims.

Too many people are conflating hating Anita Sarkeesian with hating women, and she's using this to validate all her bullshit claims. Oh look, people hate me for being a lying manipulator, they must all be sexists, which validates my feminist views..

Logic.

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

The problem I personally have with Anita's videos is twofold. Firstly, she takes videos of the games instead of playing them herself. Its not the theft of the material that annoys me (although her seeming inability to source the intellectual property of others is infuriating) its that she refuses to actually play the games and review them based on her own experience. The second part of that is that she lacks context for the games she reviews. For example, she called Fallout: New Vegas a misogynistic piece of shit game for daring to have female strippers. In Vegas. Alongside an equal number of male strippers.

She called Assassin's Creed series misogynistic for daring to portray gender roles as accurate for the time period. How DARE they expose just how shitty women were treated over a hundred years ago? That's an OUTRAGE for doing their research in an effort to increase the immersion of their game and accurately portray the time period. An OUTRAGE I say.

She called Laura Croft, one of the main characters of a game, background decoration. Her review of the Hitman Absolution game was atrocious. She labeled the entire game as sexist and degrading to women for one scene where you have to sneak past some strippers in the makeup room. She then went out of her way to play that one mission (one of the few times I've seen her use original footage) and kill the women and shove their bodies into boxes. She then claimed that the game encouraged the killing of the women, and rewarded the player for it. Literally every other walk through emphasized sneaking past the women, because you are penalized for civilian casualties. The game does not encourage killing the women, nor is it ambivalent about it, it actually penalizes you for it!

[The Rich Port]

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

Hello, Rich Port.
I would like to introduce you to the concept of plagiarism
Tom Lehrer will do it for me.

Yeah, no, thanks, I got it.

I don't care. This is the pettiest case of "plagiarism" I've ever heard argued.

Next someone's gonna complain my reviewing of a movie counts as plagiarism because I didn't credit the goddamn director in my video description.

[Len Hyet]

Hello, Rich Port.
I would like to introduce you to the concept of plagiarism
Tom Lehrer will do it for me.

Yeah, no, thanks, I got it.

I don't care. This is the pettiest case of "plagiarism" I've ever heard argued.

Next someone's gonna complain my reviewing of a movie counts as plagiarism because I didn't credit the goddamn director in my video description.

But did you imply that the movie was your own work? That's what a video game review is supposed to be. Your own work. Anita's are a hodge-podge of inflammatory comments, uninformed opinions, and the intellectual property of others. She doesn't even take the time to play the games herself. It's embarrassing.

It would be like you reviewing the movie by reading other people's reviews, copying those reviews into your reviews, and never actually watching the movie.

[The Rich Port]

Yeah, no, thanks, I got it.

I don't care. This is the pettiest case of "plagiarism" I've ever heard argued.

Next someone's gonna complain my reviewing of a movie counts as plagiarism because I didn't credit the goddamn director in my video description.

But did you imply that the movie was your own work? That's what a video game review is supposed to be. Your own work. Anita's are a hodge-podge of inflammatory comments, uninformed opinions, and the intellectual property of others. She doesn't even take the time to play the games herself. It's embarrassing.

It would be like you reviewing the movie by reading other people's reviews, copying those reviews into your reviews, and never actually watching the movie.

I've watched her videos and she at least watches the playthroughs of the game or reads the synopsis. I'll admit it's a little suspect, but nowhere near as suspect at you seem to believe.

I will submit to that analogy, though. Still, I like her videos.

I'm wondering if there were other females who were actual gamers who did videos like hers.

Probably have, I'm thinking, and I'm wondering why they're not more popular than Sarkeesian.

[Central Slavia]

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

The problem I personally have with Anita's videos is twofold. Firstly, she takes videos of the games instead of playing them herself. Its not the theft of the material that annoys me (although her seeming inability to source the intellectual property of others is infuriating) its that she refuses to actually play the games and review them based on her own experience. The second part of that is that she lacks context for the games she reviews. For example, she called Fallout: New Vegas a misogynistic piece of shit game for daring to have female strippers. In Vegas. Alongside an equal number of male strippers.

She called Assassin's Creed series misogynistic for daring to portray gender roles as accurate for the time period. How DARE they expose just how shitty women were treated over a hundred years ago? That's an OUTRAGE for doing their research in an effort to increase the immersion of their game and accurately portray the time period. An OUTRAGE I say.

She called Laura Croft, one of the main characters of a game, background decoration. Her review of the Hitman Absolution game was atrocious. She labeled the entire game as sexist and degrading to women for one scene where you have to sneak past some strippers in the makeup room. She then went out of her way to play that one mission (one of the few times I've seen her use original footage) and kill the women and shove their bodies into boxes. She then claimed that the game encouraged the killing of the women, and rewarded the player for it. Literally every other walk through emphasized sneaking past the women, because you are penalized for civilian casualties. The game does not encourage killing the women, nor is it ambivalent about it, it actually penalizes you for it!

This is analogous to someone claiming Minecraft is satanic and proving it by making a pentagram out of redstone.

[Len Hyet]

But did you imply that the movie was your own work? That's what a video game review is supposed to be. Your own work. Anita's are a hodge-podge of inflammatory comments, uninformed opinions, and the intellectual property of others. She doesn't even take the time to play the games herself. It's embarrassing.

It would be like you reviewing the movie by reading other people's reviews, copying those reviews into your reviews, and never actually watching the movie.

I've watched her videos and she at least watches the playthroughs of the game or reads the synopsis. I'll admit it's a little suspect, but nowhere near as suspect at you seem to believe.

I will submit to that analogy, though. Still, I like her videos.

I'm wondering if there were other females who were actual gamers who did videos like hers.

Probably have, I'm thinking, and I'm wondering why they're not more popular than Sarkeesian.

Watching a playthrough and reading a synopsis in no way informs someone enough to make an educated review of the game. That's just my opinion, but its one I'm rather firm on.

I'm sure there are, but I'm also sure that since they actually play the games they don't scream misogyny for each and every one, meaning they get fewer views because the people who would otherwise watch their reviews are busy watching Anita's. Most, not all but most, of Anita's viewership doesn't actually care about gaming or games. They care about being at the forefront of the next big bitch-fest. And Anita gives them that.

[Ifreann]

Honestly... I like her videos.

Also... She "stole" recordings of... People who recorded themselves playing video games?

... THE BITCH.

Hello, Rich Port.
I would like to introduce you to the concept of plagiarism
Tom Lehrer will do it for me.

Using footage someone else recorded isn't plagiarism unless she's passing it off as her own.

---

Laura Croft

---

Yeah, no, thanks, I got it.

I don't care. This is the pettiest case of "plagiarism" I've ever heard argued.

Next someone's gonna complain my reviewing of a movie counts as plagiarism because I didn't credit the goddamn director in my video description.

But did you imply that the movie was your own work? That's what a video game review is supposed to be. Your own work. Anita's...

Aren't game reviews. And I don't believe it's claimed anywhere that they are game reviews.

[The Rich Port]

I've watched her videos and she at least watches the playthroughs of the game or reads the synopsis. I'll admit it's a little suspect, but nowhere near as suspect at you seem to believe.

I will submit to that analogy, though. Still, I like her videos.

I'm wondering if there were other females who were actual gamers who did videos like hers.

Probably have, I'm thinking, and I'm wondering why they're not more popular than Sarkeesian.

Watching a playthrough and reading a synopsis in no way informs someone enough to make an educated review of the game. That's just my opinion, but its one I'm rather firm on.

I'm sure there are, but I'm also sure that since they actually play the games they don't scream misogyny for each and every one, meaning they get fewer views because the people who would otherwise watch their reviews are busy watching Anita's. Most, not all but most, of Anita's viewership doesn't actually care about gaming or games. They care about being at the forefront of the next big bitch-fest. And Anita gives them that.

Look, guy, I don't think you have the right to denounce every single contemporary feminist because of Tumblr and Sarkeesian.

These "bitch fests" you refer to have been essential egalitarian movements. Women are still discriminated and objectified today. Because some women are misinformed about their own struggle shouldn't disqualify the whole movement.

[Central Slavia]

Watching a playthrough and reading a synopsis in no way informs someone enough to make an educated review of the game. That's just my opinion, but its one I'm rather firm on.

I'm sure there are, but I'm also sure that since they actually play the games they don't scream misogyny for each and every one, meaning they get fewer views because the people who would otherwise watch their reviews are busy watching Anita's. Most, not all but most, of Anita's viewership doesn't actually care about gaming or games. They care about being at the forefront of the next big bitch-fest. And Anita gives them that.

Look, guy, I don't think you have the right to denounce every single contemporary feminist because of Tumblr and Sarkeesian.

These "bitch fests" you refer to have been essential egalitarian movements. Women are still discriminated and objectified today. Because some women are misinformed about their own struggle shouldn't disqualify the whole movement.

#notallfeminists, huh?

[Len Hyet]

Watching a playthrough and reading a synopsis in no way informs someone enough to make an educated review of the game. That's just my opinion, but its one I'm rather firm on.

I'm sure there are, but I'm also sure that since they actually play the games they don't scream misogyny for each and every one, meaning they get fewer views because the people who would otherwise watch their reviews are busy watching Anita's. Most, not all but most, of Anita's viewership doesn't actually care about gaming or games. They care about being at the forefront of the next big bitch-fest. And Anita gives them that.

Look, guy, I don't think you have the right to denounce every single contemporary feminist because of Tumblr and Sarkeesian.

These "bitch fests" you refer to have been essential egalitarian movements. Women are still discriminated and objectified today. Because some women are misinformed about their own struggle shouldn't disqualify the whole movement.

I didn't denounce every single contemporary feminist. I denounced Tumblr and Sarkeesian. I didn't say feminist movement, I said bitchfest. Which is what Anita and Tumblr are all about. Do you seriously believe that the entirety of the gaming industry is horrifically sexist and part of a massive conspiracy to objectify women? I agree that women are still somewhat disenfranchised in first world countries. I understand I may have been a little vague, I hope this clears it up.

Hello, Rich Port.
I would like to introduce you to the concept of plagiarism
Tom Lehrer will do it for me.

Using footage someone else recorded isn't plagiarism unless she's passing it off as her own.

---

Laura Croft

---

But did you imply that the movie was your own work? That's what a video game review is supposed to be. Your own work. Anita's...

Aren't game reviews. And I don't believe it's claimed anywhere that they are game reviews.

She takes games, expresses opinions on them, and tells people if they should buy the game or not. They are reviews, and claiming otherwise is a no true scotsman fallacy.

[The Rich Port]

Look, guy, I don't think you have the right to denounce every single contemporary feminist because of Tumblr and Sarkeesian.

These "bitch fests" you refer to have been essential egalitarian movements. Women are still discriminated and objectified today. Because some women are misinformed about their own struggle shouldn't disqualify the whole movement.

I didn't denounce every single contemporary feminist. I denounced Tumblr and Sarkeesian. I didn't say feminist movement, I said bitchfest. Which is what Anita and Tumblr are all about. Do you seriously believe that the entirety of the gaming industry is horrifically sexist and part of a massive conspiracy to objectify women? I agree that women are still somewhat disenfranchised in first world countries. I understand I may have been a little vague, I hope this clears it up.

Using footage someone else recorded isn't plagiarism unless she's passing it off as her own.

---

---

Aren't game reviews. And I don't believe it's claimed anywhere that they are game reviews.

She takes games, expresses opinions on them, and tells people if they should buy the game or not. They are reviews, and claiming otherwise is a no true scotsman fallacy.

Absogoddamnlutely the gaming industry and community is sexist. It's sexist in the same way all institutions have been in history. Is it some big Illuminati conspiracy? No. That would be giving this and those institutions too much credit. I think they're just ignorant and complacent with their positions.

Also, yes, you were being vague.

[Len Hyet]

I didn't denounce every single contemporary feminist. I denounced Tumblr and Sarkeesian. I didn't say feminist movement, I said bitchfest. Which is what Anita and Tumblr are all about. Do you seriously believe that the entirety of the gaming industry is horrifically sexist and part of a massive conspiracy to objectify women? I agree that women are still somewhat disenfranchised in first world countries. I understand I may have been a little vague, I hope this clears it up.


She takes games, expresses opinions on them, and tells people if they should buy the game or not. They are reviews, and claiming otherwise is a no true scotsman fallacy.

Absogoddamnlutely the gaming industry and community is sexist. It's sexist in the same way all institutions have been in history. Is it some big Illuminati conspiracy? No. That would be giving this and those institutions too much credit. I think they're just ignorant and complacent with their positions.

Also, yes, you were being vague.

I would trouble you for some examples on just how the industry and community are sexist. Preferably not dealing with 4chan. You and I both know nobody takes 4chan seriously.

[Landenburg]

I would trouble you for some examples on just how the industry and community are sexist. Preferably not dealing with 4chan. You and I both know nobody takes 4chan seriously.

4chan was mentioned. I have finally come.

No but seriously, what does 4chan have to do with any of this?

[Gauthier]

Absogoddamnlutely the gaming industry and community is sexist. It's sexist in the same way all institutions have been in history. Is it some big Illuminati conspiracy? No. That would be giving this and those institutions too much credit. I think they're just ignorant and complacent with their positions.

Also, yes, you were being vague.

I would trouble you for some examples on just how the industry and community are sexist. Preferably not dealing with 4chan. You and I both know nobody takes 4chan seriously.

Not a concrete example, but ever notice how online ads for freemium games have a habit of showing scantily clad females as if lonely neckbeards will get a hardon and sign up?