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Suits

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Nova Anglicana
Minister
 
Posts: 2592
Founded: Jul 15, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nova Anglicana » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:32 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
greed and death wrote:Wear a suit or sack groceries for a living.
I will also jab you with a bread stick while you are doing it.


this is exactly the sort of classism that the institution of the suit can promote...


While the suggestion to ban suits in favor of GoT dress (and the statement that women have it easier than men as far as formal dress) are both hilariously wrong, suggesting that one either wears a suit or "sacks groceries for a living" is also completely off-base and elitist.

One can obtain plenty of jobs without having to dress up in a suit. They may not be the jobs you want, but they are still jobs. With thrift stores, Goodwill, etc. around, it's not that hard to find a suit if you need one and money should not be a barrier in these cases. That being said, the kind of suit one would get from a thrift store tends to make one stand out even more (ill fitting, secondhand, etc) and can lower people's respect for an individual, so that presents its own problem. Wearing a suit shows that the wearer is at least willing to exert some effort because they desire this job, and quite frankly, most men look better in a suit than just street clothes. Of course, not wearing a suit should not be a reason to reject a superb candidate, but I accept it as entering into a hiring decision (in a small way). Give it a while. Once you actually start wearing nice clothes most days, you'll appreciate them and the respect they bring you. As a future teacher, professional dress is essential for my students to form the right opinion of me. It emphasizes my position and separates me from the students enough to be able to do my job.
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The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31632
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:35 pm

Seriously OP, stop complaining over pointless bullshit.

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New Comfederate States of America
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Aug 23, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New Comfederate States of America » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:38 pm

Personally I like wearing a suit. Now I'm not a fan of a conventional tie, I prefer the bolo tie, but I will still wear one some days just for the sake of wearing one. Suits and formal attire look good. I would rather view people in formal wear than in modern casual wear.

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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13699
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Vetalia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:40 pm

Business casual is the standard for most professionals today; at our firm (CPA) we only wear suits and ties at clients and often they request we wear business casual because it's less intimidating when performing audit procedures and interacting with their people.
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United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:42 pm

I would like to wear a Soviet Marshal uniform. It would be relatively comfortable, and if I shaved my beard, my mustache would look very stereo-typically like an early 1900's Russian Marshal.
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Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:47 pm

Vetalia wrote:Business casual is the standard for most professionals today; at our firm (CPA) we only wear suits and ties at clients and often they request we wear business casual because it's less intimidating when performing audit procedures and interacting with their people.

One interesting thing I have seen with accountants is how they dress reflects pecking order. Basic suit, means just passed the CPA exam, Suit with cufflinks, and a tie pin he is almost certainly a partner. I have even heard this code can be enforced, by sending a young accountant dressed too nice (and likely to mislead client as to his authority home to change).
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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13699
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Vetalia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:53 pm

greed and death wrote:One interesting thing I have seen with accountants is how they dress reflects pecking order. Basic suit, means just passed the CPA exam, Suit with cufflinks, and a tie pin he is almost certainly a partner. I have even heard this code can be enforced, by sending a young accountant dressed too nice (and likely to mislead client as to his authority home to change).


I've noticed that too; anyone ranked senior manager or below almost universally wears business casual while partners wore ties and sometimes a suit. In the firms I've worked for it's also an age-related thing; the older partners would dress more formally than the younger ones. It'd look downright strange for staff or in-charges to wear a tie, let alone a suit.
Last edited by Vetalia on Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39296
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:58 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:Seriously OP, stop complaining over pointless bullshit.


its not pointless, its inconveniencing billions of people every day.

In fact, MORE people are immediately affected by a formal convention to wear suits in a direct fashion on a daily basis than whether or not there are abortion rights or gay marriage rights (that's huge).

Billions of people don't need abortions or the right to get married EVERY day (they only need that right on some days)... but billions of people ARE heavily pressured to wear an oppressive dress code EVERY DAY.

This is a serious problem. Look at the numbers. This isn't some civil liberty debate that only affects a certain limited demographic (ex gay marriage) or something relating to your right to do certain things on a limited number of days you can count with one finger (I don't know any women who needs more than 10 abortions I could be wrong)...

You go to work for the rest of your life, these expectations will haunt you to your grave if you don't take action. Every interviewee, every white collar worker in the so-called ''respectable'' professions are subject to these types of discrimination and expectations and forms of oppression. Need I also remind you of the inherently Classist nature of this institution?

dude, this affects BILLIONS of people every day IMMEDIATELY. It affects whether or not billions of people are immediately oppressed or not. Immediacy. Numbers. This is a pressing issue I'm surprised it hasn't been politicized.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Ragnarokee
Envoy
 
Posts: 212
Founded: May 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Ragnarokee » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:02 pm

Wearing suits is silly? Fine go in thongs and a singlet.

You want to show pride, class and etiquette people DO NOT hire someone who looks like a slag or a bogan.
Last edited by Ragnarokee on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:02 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Seriously OP, stop complaining over pointless bullshit.


its not pointless, its inconveniencing billions of people every day.

In fact, MORE people are immediately affected by a formal convention to wear suits in a direct fashion on a daily basis than whether or not there are abortion rights or gay marriage rights (that's huge).

Billions of people don't need abortions or the right to get married every day... but billions of people ARE heavily pressured to wear an oppressive dress code EVERY DAY.

This is a serious problem. Look at the numbers. This isn't some civil liberty debate that only affects a certain limited demographic (ex gay marriage) or something relating to your right to do certain things on a limited number of days you can count with one finger (I don't know any women who needs more than 10 abortions I could be wrong)...

dude, this affects BILLIONS of people every day IMMEDIATELY. It affects whether or not billions of people are immediately oppressed or not. Immediacy. Numbers. This is a pressing issue I'm surprised it hasn't been politicized.


It's not oppression if it's voluntary.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Cyrisnia
Senator
 
Posts: 3982
Founded: Jun 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Cyrisnia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Seriously OP, stop complaining over pointless bullshit.


its not pointless, its inconveniencing billions of people every day.

In fact, MORE people are immediately affected by a formal convention to wear suits in a direct fashion on a daily basis than whether or not there are abortion rights or gay marriage rights (that's huge).

Billions of people don't need abortions or the right to get married every day... but billions of people ARE heavily pressured to wear an oppressive dress code EVERY DAY.

This is a serious problem. Look at the numbers. This isn't some civil liberty debate that only affects a certain limited demographic (ex gay marriage) or something relating to your right to do certain things on a limited number of days you can count with one finger (I don't know any women who needs more than 10 abortions I could be wrong)...

dude, this affects BILLIONS of people every day IMMEDIATELY. It affects whether or not billions of people are immediately oppressed or not. Immediacy. Numbers. This is a pressing issue I'm surprised it hasn't been politicized.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Are you serious? You're saying it affects Billions of people, and saying that a bunch of people dressing styles are more important than , oh, I dunno, basic fucking human rights?
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39296
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:08 pm

Lydenburg wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
its not pointless, its inconveniencing billions of people every day.

In fact, MORE people are immediately affected by a formal convention to wear suits in a direct fashion on a daily basis than whether or not there are abortion rights or gay marriage rights (that's huge).

Billions of people don't need abortions or the right to get married every day... but billions of people ARE heavily pressured to wear an oppressive dress code EVERY DAY.

This is a serious problem. Look at the numbers. This isn't some civil liberty debate that only affects a certain limited demographic (ex gay marriage) or something relating to your right to do certain things on a limited number of days you can count with one finger (I don't know any women who needs more than 10 abortions I could be wrong)...

dude, this affects BILLIONS of people every day IMMEDIATELY. It affects whether or not billions of people are immediately oppressed or not. Immediacy. Numbers. This is a pressing issue I'm surprised it hasn't been politicized.


It's not oppression if it's voluntary.


it isn't voluntary, its a System that's been installed by colonialist institutions (like the British and French Empires) and that has quietly but SURELY, decisively, and insidiously bound the entire planet to its customs, rules, and arbitrary dictates.

Like I've said countless times, the bloody neck tie serves NO purpose. Its only objective seems to be to perpetuate stereotypes, appearance-judgementalism, and shallow values.

No one has the guts to stand up to this system, it is self-protecting. To question the Suit and Tie is to somehow reveal oneself as proletarian, uncultured, lacking maturity/tact. The rhetoric and the imagery have all the power.

How can we as a society truly think freely if we do not question arbitrary dictates of oppression?

Why should the white-collar worker be judged in an interview or on the job if his suit and tie don't stack up? Why should there be such expectations?

Why should we be content to let this left-over Phantom from the era of colonialism continue to howl and shriek into the future annals of history?

We've put the colonial empires behind us, we've put other forms of oppression behind us... its time to do the same here.

Freedom begins with the right to free self-expression and control over one's physical appearance.

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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:
It's not oppression if it's voluntary.


it isn't voluntary, its a System that's been installed by colonialist institutions (like the British and French Empires) and that has quietly but SURELY, decisively, and insidiously bound the entire planet to its customs, rules, and arbitrary dictates.

Like I've said countless times, the bloody neck tie serves NO purpose. Its only objective seems to be to perpetuate stereotypes, appearance-judgementalism, and shallow values.

No one has the guts to stand up to this system, it is self-protecting. To question the Suit and Tie is to somehow reveal oneself as proletarian, uncultured, lacking maturity/tact. The rhetoric and the imagery have all the power.

How can we as a society truly think freely if we do not question arbitrary dictates of oppression?

Why should the white-collar worker be judged in an interview or on the job if his suit and tie don't stack up? Why should there be such expectations?

Why should we be content to let this left-over Phantom from the era of colonialism continue to howl and shriek into the future annals of history?

We've put the colonial empires behind us, we've put other forms of oppression behind us... its time to do the same here.

Freedom begins with the right to free self-expression and control over one's physical appearance.


And you're perfectly free to ignore social pressures. Hence, /notoppression.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39296
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:11 pm

Lydenburg wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
it isn't voluntary, its a System that's been installed by colonialist institutions (like the British and French Empires) and that has quietly but SURELY, decisively, and insidiously bound the entire planet to its customs, rules, and arbitrary dictates.

Like I've said countless times, the bloody neck tie serves NO purpose. Its only objective seems to be to perpetuate stereotypes, appearance-judgementalism, and shallow values.

No one has the guts to stand up to this system, it is self-protecting. To question the Suit and Tie is to somehow reveal oneself as proletarian, uncultured, lacking maturity/tact. The rhetoric and the imagery have all the power.

How can we as a society truly think freely if we do not question arbitrary dictates of oppression?

Why should the white-collar worker be judged in an interview or on the job if his suit and tie don't stack up? Why should there be such expectations?

Why should we be content to let this left-over Phantom from the era of colonialism continue to howl and shriek into the future annals of history?

We've put the colonial empires behind us, we've put other forms of oppression behind us... its time to do the same here.

Freedom begins with the right to free self-expression and control over one's physical appearance.


And you're perfectly free to ignore social pressures. Hence, /notoppression.


so widespread racism without the support of racist laws ISN'T a form of oppression?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cyrisnia
Senator
 
Posts: 3982
Founded: Jun 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Cyrisnia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:15 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:
And you're perfectly free to ignore social pressures. Hence, /notoppression.


so widespread racism without the support of racist laws ISN'T a form of oppression?

Clothing regulations =/= Racism.
R E D L E G S


【BORN TO ABOLISH】
SOUTH IS A F**K
鬼神 Kill Em All 1859
I am free man
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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13699
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Vetalia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Why should the white-collar worker be judged in an interview or on the job if his suit and tie don't stack up? Why should there be such expectations?


It's a sign of professionalism and respect for the position and employer; it also eliminates bias by having every serious applicant wear a standard "uniform" of sorts.
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39296
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:20 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Why should the white-collar worker be judged in an interview or on the job if his suit and tie don't stack up? Why should there be such expectations?


It's a sign of professionalism and respect for the position and employer; it also eliminates bias by having every serious applicant wear a standard "uniform" of sorts.


why the suit and tie then?

What is the function of the neck tie?

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73182
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:23 pm

Does anyone else find Infected Mushrooms complaining about lack of freedom and involuntary actions as hilarious as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church getting married to a marine of the same sex?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13699
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Vetalia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:25 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:why the suit and tie then?

What is the function of the neck tie?


Western cultural standards having it as an established component of formal dress, as well as aesthetics. Perhaps more cynically an applicant's willingness to put on an extra piece of clothing with no functional purpose demonstrates their interest in the company.

That being said not all companies would require any of this.
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73182
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:26 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:why the suit and tie then?

What is the function of the neck tie?


Western cultural standards having it as an established component of formal dress, as well as aesthetics. Perhaps more cynically an applicant's willingness to put on an extra piece of clothing with no functional purpose demonstrates their interest in the company.

That being said not all companies would require any of this.

My tie has every diagram from the first chapter of Principles of Flight.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:26 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:
And you're perfectly free to ignore social pressures. Hence, /notoppression.


so widespread racism without the support of racist laws ISN'T a form of oppression?


Quite so. Maybe a form of intolerance, but the principle in itself is hardly oppression. Without the sanction of a state nobody can force it on YOU; ergo, YOU can ignore it.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13699
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Vetalia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:31 pm

Galloism wrote:My tie has every diagram from the first chapter of Principles of Flight.


I've got the classic patterns and one sharp copper one. I roll with the Pratt knot.
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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:32 pm

Galloism wrote:Does anyone else find Infected Mushrooms complaining about lack of freedom and involuntary actions as hilarious as a member of the Westboro Baptist Church getting married to a marine of the same sex?


He's probably miffed at being late for his job interview because he was having to go through the unfamiliar motions of dressing up.

I've been there.

For about a week afterwards I hated this society of neckties and horrendous dry cleaning bills. Then I got the fuck over it.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73182
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:33 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Galloism wrote:My tie has every diagram from the first chapter of Principles of Flight.


I've got the classic patterns and one sharp copper one. I roll with the Pratt knot.

I only know how to do a Windsor and half Windsor.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Lydenburg
Senator
 
Posts: 4592
Founded: May 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lydenburg » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:34 pm

Galloism wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
I've got the classic patterns and one sharp copper one. I roll with the Pratt knot.

I only know how to do a Windsor and half Windsor.


Am I the only one who hasn't knotted my tie in three years?

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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