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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Suits

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:46 am

What do you think of the convention of wearing suits and ties to work and to job interviews?

I think its absolutely silly and a huge inconvenience.

Western society prides itself for being a very pragmatic, scientific, and advanced society and yet the custom of the suit and tie does nothing but inconvenience the individual needlessly.

The tie especially serves no bloody purpose. NO BLOODY PURPOSE (I'm not exaggerating).

The only function of this whole suit and tie thing at job interviews and work is to try and screw over the people who are less dress-etiquette conscious. And WHY the hell does it have to be a WHITE shirt? A WHITE shirt is the easiest color for employers to notice stains and wrinkles and then judge you that's why! A WHITE shirt is the easiest color for interviewers to pass judgment on you that's why (increased probability they'll see an undershirt if you're not ''man enough'' to stand the cold in the interview room)!

See what I mean? This whole suit and tie routine is designed to root people out pointlessly. Does someone's ability to handle and wear his shirt the ''appropriate way'' have any bearings on his actual ability to connect with clients, analyze problems, or churn out productive papers? No. And once again... WHY does it have to be WHITE (Does that have anything to do with racism by any chance)?

While we're on that topic, I also want to bring a colonial angle to this. A lot of good and bad came from European global domination but this suit and tie custom thingy is decidedly on the bad side. I UNDERSTAND why countries like India, Madagascar, and the Middle East may WISH to pick up on the more productive, pragmatic, and useful aspects from their former colonial rulers. Picking up things like the common law system, the Western scientific method, and infrastructure technology/practices MAKES SENSE. They objectively improve things. What upsets me though, is that this bloody impractical and annoying suit and tie routine has spread worldwide.

WHY do we have to wear suits and ties? They are a pain to maintain, put on, and present. Why can't we wear something else? Why does ''formal'' have to mean annoying? This clearly isn't the only way to go. Look at the Lannisters in Game of Thrones, no one scoffs at them for not being ''formal.'' All Lord Tywin has to do is put on a simple leather top (its expensive leather I'm sure but it doesn't look like it needs to be pressed free of wrinkles every bloody day). Why can't we just pick up that tradition? Why are we stuck with the annoying suit and tie thing? Why can't we just follow the Tyrell-Lannister model of formal dress? There are some things medieval people do better I tell you.

Why's this suit and tie thing gone global? Its partly an unfortunate consequence of colonialism I tell you. Now I can't even escape this annoying thing by flying off to Egypt or some other non-Western country, or to China or Japan for example. They ALL BLOODY HAVE IT because they all want to be in good concert with the British and the Americans. Now if CHINA had been the world's most powerful country, I bet we wouldn't be stuck with this suit and tie routine. Maybe then we'd all get to wear really simple robes or just slap a jacket on.

We should change formal dress. There are three ways you could go instead.

1. The first is obviously to get rid of this concept of ''formal dress.'' Its inherently judgemental and promotes superficial appearance-based judging. Like I said, its ridiculous to dismiss people from interviews or judge them because they ''failed'' your little dressing test. Focus on the actual skills please.

2. The second approach is where you could change the formal dress requirements so they are a little less onerous. My suggestion about wearing the simple Lannister brown/black leather tops or the Tyrell colored top jackets (look at what Loras Tyrell was wearing in Season 4, it looks so beautiful and yet so SIMPLE to maintain and wear). PLEASE be pragmatic about this. Let's not all fuss about how to maintain white shirts and ties and work with these incredibly clunky requirements.

3. There's a third way. The law steps in. On ALL INTERVIEW days people are allowed to wear whatever the hell they want and if someone discriminates on that basis, the law can step in.

Personally, I like the second idea. We can still have formal dress, but it can be less cumbersome and annoying on everyone and less stressful (a Lannister-Tyrell style leather/silk top is harder to stain and you don't need to tie some ridiculous knot).

What do you think about the suit and tie tradition? What do you think accounts for their prevalence? Does it annoy you? What should be done about it?

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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:59 am

I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:00 am

Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.

Are those really two different things?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:00 am

People look good in suits. Everyone should wear them.

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Farnhamia
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:01 am

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.

Are those really two different things?

And isn't substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones just ... substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones?
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Alyakia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:02 am

Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.


i'm honestly not sure if fighting for the abolition of formal dress codes is fascist, anti-fascist or damn near communist.
pro: good
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Lunatic Goofballs
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:03 am

I despise suits. Especially pants. But pretty much the whole thing. It's an arrogant anachronism and a powerful motivation to fling foodstuffs.
Last edited by Lunatic Goofballs on Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:04 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Are those really two different things?

And isn't substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones just ... substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones?

I say we bring back this style, as I always enjoyed it:

Image
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Ifreann
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Posts: 164109
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:04 am

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.

Are those really two different things?

There's a lot of potential for overlap.


Fartsniffage wrote:People look good in suits. Everyone should wear them.

I agree.


Farnhamia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Are those really two different things?

And isn't substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones just ... substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones?

And Lannister formal dress looks more like this than what the OP seems to be talking about.
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San Mazer
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Founded: Feb 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby San Mazer » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:04 am

Then how will I live out my secret agent fantasy?!
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:04 am

Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.


how's it tyrannical to get rid of a social expectation/requirement for people to have to wear white shirts, put on elaborate ties, and wear clunky jackets?

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Muzztopia
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Founded: Oct 17, 2012
Libertarian Police State

Postby Muzztopia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:05 am

Personally, I like suits and if I had was able I would wear one everyday.

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The Alma Mater
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:06 am

If I can not wear a tie, how can I wipe the blood of my sword ?
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:08 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:What do you think of the convention of wearing suits and ties to work and to job interviews?
I think its absolutely silly and a huge inconvenience.


That's because you lack that certain je-ne-sais-quoi required to wear a suit properly.

Also, you don't have to wear a suit if you're being interviewed for a job as carpenter, just to quote one.
.

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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am

I genuinely despise dressing up. That said, what the hell can be done about it? For job interviews I wear a shirt and tie with belt, dress pants, dress shoes though I don't wear a coat (also I live in fucking Florida where a shirt and tie is hot in the dead of winter). Pretty much all social customs are arbitrary though and most people embrace at least some of them.

One thing though is I dress for the weather and on cool days I enjoy being fashionable with a nice button down shirt (though with the first two unbuttoned which gives a glimpse of my chest tattoo which doesn't work for job interviews either).
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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am

Risottia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:What do you think of the convention of wearing suits and ties to work and to job interviews?
I think its absolutely silly and a huge inconvenience.


That's because you lack that certain je-ne-sais-quoi required to wear a suit properly.

Also, you don't have to wear a suit if you're being interviewed for a job as carpenter, just to quote one.


and this begs the question,

why do we have to for the other jobs?

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:10 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I love how every inconvenience you face in life is taken as some dreadful calamity facing society, and how your go-to solutions are either emulating Game of Thrones or imposing tyrannical laws.


how's it tyrannical to get rid of a social expectation/requirement for people to have to wear white shirts, put on elaborate ties, and wear clunky jackets?

That isn't but your Game of Thrones alternative certainly is, as is the intervention of the government.

I'll tell you, I don't dress up for work as much as I used to do back in the 20th century and on the East Coast. The men in my office do not wear suits and ties. I'll tell you, though, someone who shows up for an interview in one gets extra points because it shows that they made an effort. That effort isn't a little thing. It says, "Yes, I do want this job, enough to spruce up a bit to impress you in your first impression of me."
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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Avenio
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Ex-Nation

Postby Avenio » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:12 am

Galloism wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And isn't substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones just ... substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones?

I say we bring back this style, as I always enjoyed it:
Image


You might have liked it, but why don't we ask Lizzie whether or not she liked having to use the 16th century equivalent of the Jaws of Life to get in and out of that thing every day? :p

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:14 am

Avenio wrote:
Galloism wrote:I say we bring back this style, as I always enjoyed it:


You might have liked it, but why don't we ask Lizzie whether or not she liked having to use the 16th century equivalent of the Jaws of Life to get in and out of that thing every day? :p


I think it looks too troublesome...

though with the current dress codes, women definitely have it easier in most cases. I mean, in many contexts they can get away without having to wear ties!

By the way, can someone please explain to me the logic of the tie? Who came up with this thing? Who decided it was ''cool'' and ''mature''?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Risottia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:14 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Risottia wrote:
That's because you lack that certain je-ne-sais-quoi required to wear a suit properly.

Also, you don't have to wear a suit if you're being interviewed for a job as carpenter, just to quote one.


and this begs the question,

why do we have to for the other jobs?


Serious answer to a serious question: because attire is a form of communication. Communication requires shared standards. Our current standards say that the communication "I (am able to) work in an office/as a professor/in a bank (etc)" is conveyed through clothing by wearing a suit and a tie. Or a bowtie. Bowties are cool. Just as wearing a yellow helmet, safety boots and denim says "I (am able to) work as a construction worker/carpenter etc".
.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:15 am

Galloism wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And isn't substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones just ... substituting the suits from GoT for more modern ones?

I say we bring back this style, as I always enjoyed it:

Image

It did look good on you, I must say.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:16 am

Risottia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
and this begs the question,

why do we have to for the other jobs?


Serious answer to a serious question: because attire is a form of communication. Communication requires shared standards. Our current standards say that the communication "I (am able to) work in an office/as a professor/in a bank (etc)" is conveyed through clothing by wearing a suit and a tie. Or a bowtie. Bowties are cool. Just as wearing a yellow helmet, safety boots and denim says "I (am able to) work as a construction worker/carpenter etc".


I see...

Well I think we should change these things up, big big time.

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:16 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Galloism wrote:I say we bring back this style, as I always enjoyed it:

Image

It did look good on you, I must say.

That was ONE night and there was a LOT of ale involved.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:16 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Avenio wrote:
You might have liked it, but why don't we ask Lizzie whether or not she liked having to use the 16th century equivalent of the Jaws of Life to get in and out of that thing every day? :p


I think it looks too troublesome...

though with the current dress codes, women definitely have it easier in most cases. I mean, in many contexts they can get away without having to wear ties!

By the way, can someone please explain to me the logic of the tie? Who came up with this thing? Who decided it was ''cool'' and ''mature''?

Logic? In fashion? Anyway, you can blame the Croatians.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Lancaster of Wessex
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Founded: Feb 21, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lancaster of Wessex » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:17 am

Are you really trying to suggest we revert to clothing styles from centuries gone by because its suits (pardon the pun) your ideal of what makes good formal wear?

Unbelievable. Then again, not really.
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