Who is the greatest leader Russia has had

[United Marxist Nations]

Gorbachev, Catherine the Great, and Yeltsin. I can't believe he hasn't been mentioned

Gorbachev led his country into collapse inadvertently, and Yeltsin presided over a massive economic collapse.

[Shnercropolis]

Has Russia ever had even a passably good leader?

Putin.
Stalin.
Catherine.
Peter.


Those are just off the top of my head.

Objectively, these fuckers are better than most of America's presidents

this so much. They might have been terrible people, but they could all lead 100x more effectively than any American president since Reagan.

[United Marxist Nations]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

[Roski]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

Who are they?

(I had him confused with the WW2 General)

[Costa Fierro]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

I would nominate the latter for "Best General of WW2" but he never lead Russia in any capacity. Although he was more popular than Stalin.

[Roski]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

I would nominate the latter for "Best General of WW2" but he never lead Russia in any capacity. Although he was more popular than Stalin.

Wasn't that Georgy Zhukov?

[United Marxist Nations]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

I would nominate the latter for "Best General of WW2" but he never lead Russia in any capacity. Although he was more popular than Stalin.

I would call being supreme commander of the military (and therefore, basically the entire country) during the War leading Russia, though Voroshilov was instrumental in moving the industry of the country behind the Urals.

[Costa Fierro]

We all know that Marshal Voroshilov and Marshal Zhukov were the best.

Who are they?

(I had him confused with the WW2 General)

Marshals Zhukov and Voroshilov are WW2 generals. Zhukov did become Minister of Defence, but he never made it into any higher political office. Voroshilov did but he didn't really do anything that was outstanding, not to mention he was a lesser figure when the leader at the time was Nikita Krushchev, the man who famously said he'd bury someone.

[Costa Fierro]

I would nominate the latter for "Best General of WW2" but he never lead Russia in any capacity. Although he was more popular than Stalin.

I would call being supreme commander of the military (and therefore, basically the entire country) during the War leading Russia, though Voroshilov was instrumental in moving the industry of the country behind the Urals.

He wasn't a leader though. He still had superiors within the defence ministry and, of course, Stalin himself. Zhukov was never elevated to any real political powers outside of the Ministry of Defence. Stalin was still top dog and that is why he is on this list and Zhukov is not.

[Roski]

Who are they?

(I had him confused with the WW2 General)

Marshals Zhukov and Voroshilov are WW2 generals. Zhukov did become Minister of Defence, but he never made it into any higher political office. Voroshilov did but he didn't really do anything that was outstanding, not to mention he was a lesser figure when the leader at the time was Nikita Krushchev, the man who famously said he'd bury someone.

I thought his name was Georgy Zhukov?

[United Marxist Nations]

Marshals Zhukov and Voroshilov are WW2 generals. Zhukov did become Minister of Defence, but he never made it into any higher political office. Voroshilov did but he didn't really do anything that was outstanding, not to mention he was a lesser figure when the leader at the time was Nikita Krushchev, the man who famously said he'd bury someone.

I thought his name was Georgy Zhukov?

Marshal is a rank.

[Costa Fierro]

Marshals Zhukov and Voroshilov are WW2 generals. Zhukov did become Minister of Defence, but he never made it into any higher political office. Voroshilov did but he didn't really do anything that was outstanding, not to mention he was a lesser figure when the leader at the time was Nikita Krushchev, the man who famously said he'd bury someone.

I thought his name was Georgy Zhukov?

Georgy Zhukov is the man I am talking about.

[Roski]

I thought his name was Georgy Zhukov?

Marshal is a rank.

that flew over my head. ignore my sudden lapse of ignorance

[United Marxist Nations]

I would call being supreme commander of the military (and therefore, basically the entire country) during the War leading Russia, though Voroshilov was instrumental in moving the industry of the country behind the Urals.

He wasn't a leader though. He still had superiors within the defence ministry and, of course, Stalin himself. Zhukov was never elevated to any real political powers outside of the Ministry of Defence. Stalin was still top dog and that is why he is on this list and Zhukov is not.

But, de facto, he made most of the decisions with regard to the military state of things. If that doesn't convince you, then Marshal Voroshilov should still be on the list.

[Costa Fierro]

But, de facto, he made most of the decisions with regard to the military state of things.

Well, yes, those are the sorts of things one would expect a high-ranking figure within the army to do. But he did have superiors and he was answerable to them and is therefore not in the same position of leadership.

If that doesn't convince you, then Marshal Voroshilov should still be on the list.

And what exactly did Kliment do that warrants him on the same list as Stalin?

[United Marxist Nations]

But, de facto, he made most of the decisions with regard to the military state of things.

Well, yes, those are the sorts of things one would expect a high-ranking figure within the army to do. But he did have superiors and he was answerable to them and is therefore not in the same position of leadership.

If that doesn't convince you, then Marshal Voroshilov should still be on the list.

And what exactly did Kliment do that warrants him on the same list as Stalin?

Chairman of the Revvoyensovet in the South, largely oversaw industrialization, moved industry to the Urals during the war, defended Leningrad, and was Chairman of the Presidium of the Soviet Union. Essentially, Voroshilov was singularly responsible for the victory of the USSR in the War.

EDIT: Despite the scapegoating of him by so many Soviet politicians, Voroshilov should have been the man in charge. He is the personification of defending Stalin's good side, while defying him in others. Plus, he was a badass, he once personally led a counterattack against German Panzers, armed with nothing but a pistol.

[Costa Fierro]

Chairman of the Revvoyensovet in the South, largely oversaw industrialization, moved industry to the Urals during the war, defended Leningrad, and was Chairman of the Presidium of the Soviet Union. Essentially, Voroshilov was singularly responsible for the victory of the USSR in the War.

Hmm. Some of those are valid points but I would dispute that defending Leningrad would be up there with the same importance to the war in the Soviet Union as other battles, in particular the reversals around Moscow and Stalingrad. I also wouldn't go so far as to say he was entirely responsible for the victory in the USSR as there were many other components to the victory.

[Sun Wukong]

Genghis Khan.

[Roski]

Genghis Khan.

Clearly.

[United Marxist Nations]

Chairman of the Revvoyensovet in the South, largely oversaw industrialization, moved industry to the Urals during the war, defended Leningrad, and was Chairman of the Presidium of the Soviet Union. Essentially, Voroshilov was singularly responsible for the victory of the USSR in the War.

Hmm. Some of those are valid points but I would dispute that defending Leningrad would be up there with the same importance to the war in the Soviet Union as other battles, in particular the reversals around Moscow and Stalingrad. I also wouldn't go so far as to say he was entirely responsible for the victory in the USSR as there were many other components to the victory.

The saving of industry was likely the most important though, as without it, the USSR would have had its industrial capacity crippled. Moreover, he was instrumental in the developing of the "defense-in-depth" doctrine. Leningrad was of great importance, it held 11% of the national economy, not even including the other valuables of the Tsar inside the city. Plus, the loss of the city would have freed Army Group North to move south into a pincer on Moscow.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Nah, Rurik was better.

Rurik was Ukrainian, obv.

No, actually. Rurik was a Swedish viking, part of the varangians that settled and formed several kingdoms in the east, including Holmgard and Könugagard. These later turned into the republic of Novgorod and the kingdom of Kiev, respectively.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Has Russia ever had even a passably good leader?

Putin.
Stalin.
Catherine.
Peter.


Those are just off the top of my head.

Objectively, these fuckers are better than most of America's presidents

Putin & Stalin, good?

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Putin.
Stalin.
Catherine.
Peter.


Those are just off the top of my head.

Objectively, these fuckers are better than most of America's presidents

this so much. They might have been terrible people, but they could all lead 100x more effectively than any American president since Reagan.

Reagan lead about as well as a senile rock. He was a horrible, HORRIBLE president.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Genghis Khan.

The Mongols hadn't reached Russia by the time he died.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Genghis Khan.

They'd basically only reached Kazakhstan when Genghis died.