Russian Federation (And other forms of Russia)

[Bojikami]

Not under Lenin. Stalin was the one who made laws again gays.

Laws that were only repealed in 1993.

Mostly because the Soviets after Stalin were kissing up to the Orthodox Church.

[United Marxist Nations]

As a Russian, I kind of miss the USSR. It was a time when we were respected and feared, while Putin makes us all look like homophobic jerks.

The USSR was more homophobic.

In a time when everyone was; the West, at this time, considered homosexuality a mental illness.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

The USSR was more homophobic.

In a time when everyone was; the West, at this time, considered homosexuality a mental illness.

The issue was more that it was a bourgeois illness. In imperial times, while homosexuality was technically illegal, nobody in the upper classes really cared. Russia had quite a few openly homosexual writers, artists, etc. Generally you only got charged with being gay on top of other offenses if you annoyed somebody sufficiently high up.

It's difficult to say how the common folk felt about homosexuality, but since the church felt the need to be so firmly against it, that seems like evidence that there was some buggery going on ;P

Incidentally, Russia, like many countries, never had any official laws against FEMALE homosexuality. It was also fairly hard to prosecute male homosexuality since the crime was sodomy, meaning that anything short of actual anal sex was perfectly legal.

[Shofercia]

1. The Donetsk and Lugansk example was there to show that he was talking about more than one event.
2. The point is that they matter, and that that Crimea's status is de facto Russian, (without a single death,) and de jure disputed.
3. You claimed that an election that reflects the will of the majority isn't legitimate if it's rigged. That's bullshit. If I know that X is going to win, and I don't want X to win, all I have to do is rig the election, and presto, according to Jetan's logic, X isn't a legitimate winner.
4. I was providing yet another example of the stupidity of the claim that one must first get approval from the central government before secession. I wasn't actually claiming that war occurred in Crimea. Nice strawman though.




5)My point was that when you said "country X, country Y, and a bunch of shitholes in region Z," - that was a very condescending way to address region Z. I see that's yet another point that flew over your head.




6)My point was that yours wasn't the only interpretation out there, and that when he says "will of the people" he means "will of the people". Thank you for finally understanding that! As for e-lawyering, I think that's a downright pathetic activity... oh wait, you meant "sue me" as a figure of speech. Ahh, yes, that is indeed hilarious. Funnier than anything that was ever said during Shatner's Roast. I'm just clutching my sides laughing at that witty statement.

1) And it was an incorrect one as he very clearly specifies Crimea.
2)If you don't mind I'll drop this one as we've gone through the whole de facto vs de jure thing plenty of times before. I doubt either of us will convince the other.
3) And according to Shofercias logic all I need to do is rig the election and then claim that I would have won anyway, so it's totally okay.
4) You are the one constructing strawmen here. You asked if I'd support a democratic referendum in Crimea and I answered I would if Ukraine agreed to it. You then proceeded to talk about murderous government and when called out on your bullshit just started your usual mantra of "strawman, skillful strawman!".
5) A simple yes or no. How hard can that be? I'm dissapointed Shof.
6) And you on the other hand are god's gift to NSG.

1. He said "will of the people" not "referendum". Do you not comprehend that the will of the people can be expressed when said people answer polling questions?
2. Mine's factually correct, if you want to live in a world without facts, go for it!
3. Not what I said. My point was that if the person who won a rigged election would've won a fair election, and we have clear evidence of that, the election expresses the will of the people, even if it's rigged.
4. I'm just going to post the quotes, since I'm tired of your bullshit:

Me: "Nice try to get out of the situation you put yourself in, but no cigar, so let me cut through the potentially grotesque amount of bullshit and ask you straight up: if Crimea holds a referendum that's as democratic as the Californian Proposition Process vote, (I challenge anyone to find a more democratic event,) would you accept those results, even if they are to unite with Russia?"
You: "If the referendum was approved of before the fact by Ukraine (in similiar vein as the Scottish referendum was approved of before the fact by UK) then ofcourse I would."
Me: "Oh, so if you have a murderous government, from whom the people want to secede, they have to first get said government's approval. And if the government opts to kill the delegation instead? Oh wait, you wouldn't care about that, nevermind."
You: "Because Ukraine was totes murdering Crimean inhabitants when Russia walzed in and occupied the place. Oh wait..."
Me: "I was providing yet another example of the stupidity of the claim that one must first get approval from the central government before secession. I wasn't actually claiming that war occurred in Crimea. Nice strawman though."

5. I was pointing out that your post was condescending towards Africa; I wasn't equating condescension with standards of living.
6. Considering that I'm a Christian, that I believe that every life is a Gift, and that I post on NSG, thank you! It's funny, you're trying to be sarcastic, but you end up making a decent statement. Thank you for that.

[Lyttenburg]

Hey, how about having some relevant Russian news in a thread devoted for that? Like this one:

His name is Chernogubov Stepan, a resident of the Sverdlovsk region, and he was caught in a series of incredible events. How Russian nationalists are connected with punitive battalions in the Ukraine, what links human rights defenders and representatives of the Embassy of the United States, and how regional authorities defend the development of non-traditional Islam (simply put –its extremist variety) you can learn from this interview.

Q: Why did you infiltrated this network?

A: When I learned about the information on funding, which offered foreigners, for the project of building a madrassa at our city mosque, knowing that this would be a hotbed of madrasas non-traditional Islam, I began to look for ways to combat this. My contact, previously a member in the pro-government organization, has advised to refer with the problem to Vasiliy Rybakov, as he had extensive experience in public and political activities, in addition to the time when Rybakov implemented project "Government Chamber", aimed at identifying the shortcomings in the management area. In a personal meeting Vasiliy Rybakov offered cooperation in the "Government Chamber." To do this I had to create a blog on LiveJournal. Vasiliy Rybakov promised his support in the issues that I raise in the blog. That's how I got into the environment activists, called "environmentalists" and "human rights defenders".

[…]

Q: Next you have to make contact with the Americans? The American ambassador in Yekaterinburg came in touch with you?

A: Yes, some time we communicated by e-mail, and later had an appointment. At a meeting in the hotel cafe Hyatt Regency-Yekaterinburg John told us briefly about himself and his interest in my story. According to him he learned about me from Svetlana Efanova, as well as from publications in the media. In his opinion the environmental problems are global in nature, everything is interconnected, so he wanted to personally make an effort to solve this environmental problem. Also, he asked me, will I not refuse the assistance they can offer to me through the Global Fund defenders. He meant financial assistance to pay for medical services.

Q: You accepted the offer?

A: Yes, I agreed. I myself was curious to know why I attracted the interest from the consular officer. For me, this situation with the invitation from the Consul was unusual. By the way, after that was released this article about me in the “Washington Post”.

Q: Yeah, not every day you communicate with the Consul from the Embassy of the United States. please tell us more in detail, the proposals received from John Rutherfor.

A: We had three meetings. In subsequent meetings I have been offered the following types of "help": legal – cost of a lawyer, which they gave me, the physical - its essence consul did not specified, and travel, temporary, from the Russian Federation, Education - travel abroad for education in civil rights advocacy. Consul also offered funding under our projects. To get this, our ideas, must be properly arranged and send to him. However, after the media have [url]published more about our meetings[/url], we have stopped the meetings and communicated only by email. In September, I receive the financial aid for the provision of medical services, I later found out that by the decision from Washington, John was recalled from Russia, and on his mailbox now operated an answering machine. Maybe it was due to the scandalous publication of which I spoke above.

Q: How are Russian nationalists connected with the Americans?

A: Some time after the publication of my dealings with John, I learned that in addition to me and Svetlana Efanova from the “Government Chamber” the consul was able to communicate with Sergey Ivin, regional representative of the NDP party. Who had told me that the work of the “Government Chamber” aimed at the seizure of power on the local level, with the potential buildup of the situation in Moscow.

Q: Tell us about the organizers of the "Russian Marches"?

A: The same time as for me there has been opened a criminal case on the organizer of “Russian marches” in Yekaterinburg - Maxim Vahromov, and Vasiliy Rybakov and human rights activists rose to his defense, which, naturally, raised a few questions from me. Given the sheer lunacy of this character, I have repeatedly asked Rybakov this question: why do we need to protect him? But I have not been able to get a clear answer from Rybakov.

Q: How are nationalists connected with the “Peace march” in Yekaterinburg?

A: On the eve of the Peace March which was attended by the head of Sutyajnik - Belyaev, it became known that the Russian nationalists are organizing march in Yekaterinburg, and plan to participate in a march in support of the Ukrainian regime. As one of their former colleagues confessed, the leadership of the group “Russian March-Ural” previously had contacts with representatives of the American consulate. This time they were asker to participate in a peace march in exchange for previously rendered legal and financial assistance. To avid any personal connections to that, Maxim Vahromov (who have contacts with representatives of punitive battalions Aydar and Azov) and Dmitry Grom (Kuznetsov) have appointed as their representative of the nationalists in the March for Peace – Oleg Sheiko.

[…]

Q: What can you say to our readers?

A: No matter how developed your relationship with your country, we must always remember that all foreigners, offering you various kinds of assistance, care about the interests of their own state, and you are only a means for them. Playing opposition activities you can easily become a pawn in someone else's game, and not only do harm to your state, but also your own people. Without the Russian government Russian, Bashkirs, Tatars will be doomed to extinction, as was the case in the 90s.

Paranoid insinuations targeting bright-spotless US of A sprouted by the state controlled Putinist propaganda – might say our most handshakable NSGers. Only this story has a continuation:

STATE DEPARTMENT of the US in Yekaterinburg has been exposed from the inside

Established network of "helpers" revealed by the introduction of "mole"

USA’s station in Yekaterinburg build over the years, was opened thanks to a special operation of the Ural’s security forces. According to sources in the security services, the result of a long work was a series of events indicating that the intelligence activities under the guise of the Consulate General has received a severe blow. And it won’t be possible to eliminate the consequences in the near future. In particular, one of the results of a special operation was the recall of Consul John Rutherfor, and also confirmation of the information on the allocation of the Department of State financial assistance for subversive activities in Russia under the guise of caring about the environment and about the freedom of religion. Note that in the scandal have been implicated the Spiritual Administration of Muslims of the Asian part of Russia, which was repeatedly involved in violations of anti-extremist legislation.

Yekaterinburg residency and a network of agents of the United States, on the alignment of which were spent the years of American diplomats and thousands of dollars, has been exposed thanks to the efforts of the security forces of Sverdlovsk Interior Ministry and FSB. According to sources, special operation was prepared at the highest level, and in the course of its counterintelligence managed to infiltrate the structure of the opponents with a "mole", through which were confirmed the data on funding from a variety of American organizations of the subversive activities in Russia. The main "covers" were the traditional "concern for the environment" and "the development of the human rights movement." In addition, in the scandal were involved 3 Sverdlovsk Mosque Spiritual Administration of Muslims of the Asian part of Russia – Yekaterinburg’s "Rahmat", Pervouralsk’s "SABR" and Asbestovskiy’s "Irshad".

The interlocutors of "Pravda URFO" shared that "mole" probably was Stepan Chernogubov and operation began with the introduction of his protests against the representatives of foreign states, who have offered funding for the construction of the mosque at the madrassa "Sabr". Later Chernogubov made statements about the harmful discharges of "Russian Chrome 1915" and at this stage has attracted the attention of famous Ural opposition activists who have already set direct connection with the United States, in particular - Vasily Rybakov…

And then basically confirm what had been said previously in the interview.

TL;DR: the US of A decided to fund in Russia not only the traditional “fifth column” (i.e. so-called liberals, hipsters, office plankton and creacls) but also a “Sixth Column” – radical nationalists and extremists, just anyone, who could fight against Russian government.

In the name of ‘Mocracy and Freedum, of course.

[United Marxist Nations]

Guy's, if you're going to just talk about the Ukraine Crisis, just go to the Ukraine megathread. This thread is just for talking about Russia itself, if I understand it correctly.

[Seraven]

I wish the Russians will unite and realize, that the current government is their best hope for now

[Costa Fierro]

The USSR was more homophobic.

In a time when everyone was; the West, at this time, considered homosexuality a mental illness.

That depends.

Let me present to you a list of "Western" countries that legalized homosexuality before 1917:
Mexico: 1872
El Salvador: 1800's
Guatemala: 1871
Honduras: 1899
Dominican Republic: 1822
Argentina: 1887
Brazil: 1824
Paraguay: 1880
Peru: 1836
Suriname: 1869
Poland: Never criminalized until it became part of Russia/Germany/Austria-Hungary
Switzerland: bits of it in 1798
Italy: 1890
Turkey: 1858
Belgium: 1795
France: 1791
Luxembourg: 1795
Monaco: 1793
Netherlands: 1811

And just for fun, the Japanese legalized homosexuality in 1880.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

In a time when everyone was; the West, at this time, considered homosexuality a mental illness.

That depends.

Let me present to you a list of "Western" countries that legalized homosexuality before 1917:
Mexico: 1872
El Salvador: 1800's
Guatemala: 1871
Honduras: 1899
Dominican Republic: 1822
Argentina: 1887
Brazil: 1824
Paraguay: 1880
Peru: 1836
Suriname: 1869
Poland: Never criminalized until it became part of Russia/Germany/Austria-Hungary
Switzerland: bits of it in 1798
Italy: 1890
Turkey: 1858
Belgium: 1795
France: 1791
Luxembourg: 1795
Monaco: 1793
Netherlands: 1811

And just for fun, the Japanese legalized homosexuality in 1880.

Again, while sodomy (rather than homosexuality,) was technically illegal in the Russian Empire since the early 19th century, it generally wasn't actually prosecuted. Mostly because the Russian nobility were far too busy engaging in homosexual affairs with each other.

[Lyttenburg]

1) Russian PM found evidence of aberrations in Obama's brains:

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev expressed ф surprise at the words of President Barack Obama, who called the threat from Russia, the second largest after the Ebola, RIA Novosti reported with reference to the interview with the head of the government to the television channel CNBC.

"For example, I am very sad that President Obama, speaking from the rostrum of the United Nations and listing the threats facing humanity, or the challenges facing humanity, put on the first place the disease - Ebola, in second place - the Russian Federation, and only in third place - "Islamic state." I do not even want to comment on this, it's sad, it's some kind of aberration in the brain, "- he said.

Of course - Mr. Medvedev is dead wrong here. It is not an "aberration". It is a deliberate attempt to paint Russia as enemy and brainwash western public into that. Not an "aberration" at all, but business as usual for the Free West.

2)

CEC responded to the United States attempts to assess the local elections in Russia. Office has sent to the State Department a letter asking whether Washington recognizes the election of deputies of the Council of the municipality "Settlement Volgokaspijskiy" Astrakhan region. In September, the State Department said that the United States do not recognize the results of elections held in the Crimea.

"In response to attempts by the State Department of the United States to evaluate the elections in the Russian Federation, the CEC of Russia, as an experiment, proposed to the executive agency of the Federal Government to the USA to evaluate the election of deputies of the Council of the municipality" Settlement Volgokaspijskiy", of fifth convocation, held on September 14, 2014," - said in a statement on the official website of the Central Election Commission.

"Deigned to tell us whether the leadership of the USA acknowledges the results of these elections", - stated in a letter sent to Washington. It is accompanied by an application on 26 sheets, which describes the course of the elections.

"Russian profile organizations, in turn, plan carefully to assess the organization and the legitimacy of the mid-term elections in the United States, paying particular attention to the vote in Texas and New Mexico," - stressed in the press service of the Central Election Commission of the Russian Federation.

And afterwards - demand a re-voting. US of A, being champions of "'Mocracy and Freedum" would surely agree to that.

[Bojikami]

I wish the Russians will unite and realize, that the current government is their best hope for now

No. No, it really isnt.

[Washington Resistance Army]

This might be hard to comprehend Lytte. But going around invading countries, annexing their territory and then arming rebels in said nation tends to make people see you as a threat

[Roski]

I wish the Russians will unite and realize, that the current government is their best hope for now

No. No, it really isnt.

^^^

[Lyttenburg]

Seemingly impossible has happened. Icon figure of Moscow's office plankton, net-hamsters and so-called "libeals" of Russia Alexey Navalniy, one of the most recent "darlings" of the West, who have previously stated in his blog (March 12) that he is strongly opposed to Russian actions in Crimea and consider it the Ukrainian territory, this person, who, despite his house arrest, supported "Peace Marches" in Russia, where russian handshakable characters expressed more or less the same sentiments, this Titan of Libaralism and "Father of Russian Democracy" (c)... suddenly realized that he is pissing off Russians and his already not numerous following is dwindling as the result of his position.

So yestertoday, in the interview to very oppositionist and handshakable radio-station "Ekho Moskvy" he said that... he recognizes Crimea as part of Russia, that it will remain such, and advised the Ukrainians to forget about it. When asked, will he return Crimea to the Ukraine if he become the president of Russia, Navalny answered "No. Crimea is not a sandvitch with sausage to give it back and forth".



But that's not all! Another Icon of handshakable people (and a living saint for some Westrners and Russian so-called "liberals") former oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky, when asked, would he return Crimea to the Ukraine (in the very unlikely event of becoming president of Russia) and what he thinks about Navalny's recent "revelation", said that he also won't return Crimea to the Ukraine.

I can't help but remember granpa's Lenin famous quote about political prostitutes...

[The balkens]

This might be hard to comprehend Lytte. But going around invading countries, annexing their territory and then arming rebels in said nation tends to make people see you as a threat

"But gawd guys, russian speakers are in danger! its not like someone else used a similar argument in the last century! GAWD!"

[Geilinor]

1) Russian PM found evidence of aberrations in Obama's brains:

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev expressed ф surprise at the words of President Barack Obama, who called the threat from Russia, the second largest after the Ebola, RIA Novosti reported with reference to the interview with the head of the government to the television channel CNBC.

"For example, I am very sad that President Obama, speaking from the rostrum of the United Nations and listing the threats facing humanity, or the challenges facing humanity, put on the first place the disease - Ebola, in second place - the Russian Federation, and only in third place - "Islamic state." I do not even want to comment on this, it's sad, it's some kind of aberration in the brain, "- he said.

ISIS won't succeed in creating a state. Russia is a powerful state.

[Geilinor]

Icon figure of Moscow's office plankton, net-hamsters and so-called "libeals" of Russia Alexey Navalniy, one of the most recent "darlings" of the West Titan of Libaralism and "Father of Russian Democracy" (c)... (and a living saint for some Westrners and Russian so-called "liberals"

This nonsense is why I can't bother to read your posts in full.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) Russian PM found evidence of aberrations in Obama's brains:

ISIS won't succeed in creating a state. Russia is a powerful state.

Haven't they kind of already made a state? I mean, granted, not a powerful or lasting state, but a state nonetheless.

[Geilinor]

ISIS won't succeed in creating a state. Russia is a powerful state.

Haven't they kind of already made a state? I mean, granted, not a powerful or lasting state, but a state nonetheless.

Sort of, but it isn't an internationally recognized sovereign state.

[United Marxist Nations]

Haven't they kind of already made a state? I mean, granted, not a powerful or lasting state, but a state nonetheless.

Sort of, but it isn't an internationally recognized sovereign state.

Lot's of states aren't. ROC, Somaliland, South Ossetia, Transnistria, the list goes on.

[Insaeldor]

I would have always liked to see what I would be like if the Russian Republic survived the October Revolution and the Russian Civil war was prevented. Although I do see the Russian Federation as a success story for the ages. Comming out of the ashes of a financially destitute and emploted Soviet Union and the loss of the first Chechen War as well as the distruction of the Russian economy and is now one of the most economicly powerful nation in Europe (arguable yes but you can seine its power over Europe) and it's military prowess. I hate the politics of the Russian Federation for sure but I understand and respect the good it's done for the Russian people.

[United Marxist Nations]

I would have always liked to see what I would be like if the Russian Republic survived the October Revolution and the Russian Civil war was prevented. Although I do see the Russian Federation as a success story for the ages. Comming out of the ashes of a financially destitute and emploted Soviet Union and the loss of the first Chechen War as well as the distruction of the Russian economy and is now one of the most economicly powerful nation in Europe (arguable yes but you can seine its power over Europe) and it's military prowess. I hate the politics of the Russian Federation for sure but I understand and respect the good it's done for the Russian people.

RSFSR would likely have done much better than RF has done.

[The balkens]

I would have always liked to see what I would be like if the Russian Republic survived the October Revolution and the Russian Civil war was prevented. Although I do see the Russian Federation as a success story for the ages. Comming out of the ashes of a financially destitute and emploted Soviet Union and the loss of the first Chechen War as well as the distruction of the Russian economy and is now one of the most economicly powerful nation in Europe (arguable yes but you can seine its power over Europe) and it's military prowess. I hate the politics of the Russian Federation for sure but I understand and respect the good it's done for the Russian people.

RSFSR would likely have done much better than RF has done.

Debatable but understandable considering your beliefs and ideals.

[Insaeldor]

RSFSR would likely have done much better than RF has done.

Debatable but understandable considering your beliefs and ideals.

I'm not going to get into that argument, I'm just say that with the situation surrounding it's creation the RF has done well for itself even if it's politics are shit.

[The Flood]

Russia should restore the rightful head of the imperial house to the throne, as a constitutional monarch, similar to the UK's.