Is Marriage an out dated institution?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

oh wow, what a great argument.

I don't think you know what an argument is. That wasn't one. And I didn't pretend it was.

you were attempting to use my supposed youthfulness and perceived "desire to go against the man" to discredit me or my arguments, basically using it as a place holder for an argument, or rather, counter-argument.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

We can either pretend that marriage is not a way of institutionalizing a certain moral goal (the traditional family) or that it does not have a special status as a contract in our societies and governments. Pretending isn't good either way.

What

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

you wanna bet on that? I'm not just talking about external pressure but more about pressure from the partner.

And again, that's something the couple should be aware of.

There's probably some cases where people have felt pressured to marry. But in general I don't think the vast majority of people who marry feel pressured to marry.

In our society, I doubt many feel pressure to marry. More often than not, those who get married do so because they want to.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

I don't think you know what an argument is. That wasn't one. And I didn't pretend it was.

you were attempting to use my supposed youthfulness and perceived "desire to go against the man" to discredit me or my arguments, basically using it as a place holder for an argument, or rather, counter-argument.

no. Mav was probably just laughing tbh. I know I was.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

We can either pretend that marriage is not a way of institutionalizing a certain moral goal (the traditional family) or that it does not have a special status as a contract in our societies and governments. Pretending isn't good either way.

What

I'm not sure I understand his argument to abolish marriage given that, as far as I'm aware, the vast majority of people do not feel pressured into a marriage...

[Neutraligon]

Answer the question. If you do what you are planning and the individual must pay for the contracts, you are making "marriage" only available to the rich.

and this is the exact point i'm trying to make. assuming you do not want all contracts to be free then why should marriage be the special snowflake of the bunch?

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair. For instance, there is of course the combining of financial assets, as well as things like joint ownership. Then of course there is dealing with inheritance, and children, as well as things like hospital visits and allowing ones spouse to remain in the US even when they are not a citizen. Is there any reason these rights should be exclusive to rich couples when they are just as necessary for poor couples?

[Mavorpen]

I don't think you know what an argument is. That wasn't one. And I didn't pretend it was.

you were attempting to use my supposed youthfulness and perceived "desire to go against the man" to discredit me or my arguments, basically using it as a place holder for an argument, or rather, counter-argument.

In other words it wasn't an argument.

The fact you apparently don't know what an argument entails explains a lot.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

What

I'm not sure I understand his argument to abolish marriage given that, as far as I'm aware, the vast majority of people do not feel pressured into a marriage...

He doesn't have an argument. It's all just "I don't like it, make it go away!"

[Jordanistan]

I voted with the majority in a NationStates poll?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And again, that's something the couple should be aware of.

There's probably some cases where people have felt pressured to marry. But in general I don't think the vast majority of people who marry feel pressured to marry.

In our society, I doubt many feel pressure to marry. More often than not, those who get married do so because they want to.

Right, I know that if I was to marry I would do it without pressure to marry.

Of course, that is at the most basic level. There's other things I'd consider - I don't want a marriage to last 5 - 25 years and then have to break it off.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

and this is the exact point i'm trying to make. assuming you do not want all contracts to be free then why should marriage be the special snowflake of the bunch?

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair.

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

In our society, I doubt many feel pressure to marry. More often than not, those who get married do so because they want to.

Right, I know that if I was to marry I would do it without pressure to marry.

Of course, that is at the most basic level. There's other things I'd consider - I don't want a marriage to last 5 - 25 years and then have to break it off.

We all see the union differently. We all have different reasons to want to get married. But I think most of us enter into this arrangement with the idea to make it last.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm not sure I understand his argument to abolish marriage given that, as far as I'm aware, the vast majority of people do not feel pressured into a marriage...

He doesn't have an argument. It's all just "I don't like it, make it go away!"

I mean, there's undoubtedly people even in my age range (25 - 30) who feel they won't marry because it is a useless institution and it is inherently bad given their friends are married and they feel shoved down a bin; but this isn't what he's arguing.

[Mavorpen]

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair.

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair.

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

Because the individual has all the capability to function that it needs under the law. The things marriage gives you are only applicable to people who are in a long-term engagement.
And why exactly do you want to take marriage away from people? Why should I not be allowed to get married just because you don't want to?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

He's giving me a headache.

[Enfaru]

Marriage as it is commonly seen has no place in society anymore, but that's not to deny its application. The creation of family units, is remarkably useful but in many cases due to economic situations, the state provides where the family cannot, thereby increasing efficiency but declining quality.

The largest rise in married couples is actually from the homosexual/other community, which is a sign of how marriage and family units are evolving. One man and One woman is required to create children, but not to look after or raise children and slowly society will come to accept that.

Marriage as it was previously known then, will become extinguished but it will evolve in what we understand as a social contract, where relationships are brought together to create stable and productive atmospheres for children and other family members to develop regardless if they are male or female or even blood related. That is a fantastic thing and should be applauded that the Human Race adapts to cater for the human race as a whole rather than individual lines of genes and therefore promotes faster evolution.

Gay marriage, even though technically a dead end is paradoxically the way forwards for human evolution a stepping stone to the next phase of our development as a race.

[Neutraligon]

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair.

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

Because simply by being in a long term relationship certain things happen, like sharing of assets, like having and raising children (single parents don't have to deal with the same issues, simply because there is no one to dispute when dealing with the child). Because there are certain important factors that occur only when dealing with a pair rather than a single person (and no I am not talking about tax breaks). These issues only arise when in a pair (or more but I am leaving that out for now). Please note I also edited my post. An individual or short term couple does not have to deal with sharing of assets the way a couple does. They do not have to deal with joint custody of children. They do not have to deal with inheritance issues. There are a ton of things that only occur when a person is part of a long term pair.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

I don't understand... how... he can....??? How, Mav?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Because the rights that contract gives are important to the functioning of a pair.

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

Let me put it in terms you probably will understand:

A union of two people is more important under the law to have more privileges, duties, and responsibilities than single individuals because they are now a unit composed of a group of people. The single individual has ultimate liability to what happens to them as well as ultimate freedom of movement, action, and so forth as long as it complies with the already existing law. Marriage couples, while they have those, is much more restricted and their status provides them with more benefits given they are now a group the law should protect and realize the dynamics of two individuals cojointly are different from those of a single individual.

I don't feel discriminated against married couples, that'd be ridiculous.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

and why is the functioning of a pair any more important than the functioning of an individual, or a pair not necessarily engaged in a long term relationship? what concrete benefits does it give to the society? have been married people shown to be more productive for example?

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

I was. The benefits listed.. they.. well.. benefit the married basically, not society as a whole.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Marriage as it is commonly seen has no place in society anymore, but that's not to deny its application. The creation of family units, is remarkably useful but in many cases due to economic situations, the state provides where the family cannot, thereby increasing efficiency but declining quality.

The largest rise in married couples is actually from the homosexual/other community, which is a sign of how marriage and family units are evolving. One man and One woman is required to create children, but not to look after or raise children and slowly society will come to accept that.

Marriage as it was previously known then, will become extinguished but it will evolve in what we understand as a social contract, where relationships are brought together to create stable and productive atmospheres for children and other family members to develop regardless if they are male or female or even blood related. That is a fantastic thing and should be applauded that the Human Race adapts to cater for the human race as a whole rather than individual lines of genes and therefore promotes faster evolution.

Gay marriage, even though technically a dead end is paradoxically the way forwards for human evolution a stepping stone to the next phase of our development as a race.

w h a t

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

I was. The benefits listed.. they.. well.. benefit the married basically, not society as a whole.

ThEy DoNt HaVe To BeNeFiT sOcIeTy

[Napkiraly]

I don't care either way really. I like the idea of getting married but it's not written in stone that I will nor that if I don't that'll prevent me from having a life partner. If I do though, it'll be after getting a house and having kids. Plus I'll never get married without a prenup.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If there ever was evidence that he isn't paying that much attention...this would be it.

I was. The benefits listed.. they.. well.. benefit the married basically, not society as a whole.

Sure, because a marriage exists in a vacuum. There's no way the marriage can, with these benefits and protections under law, benefit society. Not at all.