Communists and Socialists, what do you think of homosexuals?

[Calisu]

No, it has not been done except in certain places, and that much would not have happened without people making a lot of that "noise" you don't care for.

Right, but let's get back to the topic, which is the view of Socialists and Communists on homosexuals.

funny how communist and socialists discussing homosexuality isn't on topic.

[Farnhamia]

Right, but let's get back to the topic, which is the view of Socialists and Communists on homosexuals.

funny how communist and socialists discussing homosexuality isn't on topic.

It was turning into a discussion of same-sex marriage.

[Calisu]

funny how communist and socialists discussing homosexuality isn't on topic.

It was turning into a discussion of same-sex marriage.

Which has nothing to do with economics or homosexuality?

[Tmutarakhan]

No, it has not been done except in certain places, and that much would not have happened without people making a lot of that "noise" you don't care for.

Right, but let's get back to the topic, which is the view of Socialists and Communists on homosexuals.

I was discussing the view of a socialist/communist on homosexuals.

[Othelos]

Why did you put quotes around lgbt?

And yes, but not everywhere. That's the point. And there are many rights, not just benefits, that also come along with marriage, such as visiting your spouse in the hospital.

1. As I said before, you are a man or a woman, not a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transsexual.
2. Yes, everywhere. A clause in the DOMA guaranteed federal marriage benefits for "LGBT" couples.
3. Spouses are often subject to the same visiting hours as everyone else.

1. Being a person that is LGBT is perfectly valid. It's a characteristic of their existence.
2. DOMA was struck down because it banned same sex marriage.
3. Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with my point.

[Grenartia]

Why did you put quotes around lgbt?

And yes, but not everywhere. That's the point. And there are many rights, not just benefits, that also come along with marriage, such as visiting your spouse in the hospital.

1. As I said before, you are a man or a woman, not a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transsexual.
2. Yes, everywhere. A clause in the DOMA guaranteed federal marriage benefits for "LGBT" couples.
3. Spouses are often subject to the same visiting hours as everyone else.

1. The T in LGBT is for Transgender. And, speaking as somebody who is transgender, I'm neither a man nor a woman. Also, lesbian, gay, bi, and trans are labels which are just as legitimate as "man" and "woman". kthnxbai

2. Prove it.

3. You misunderstand the issue or are purposely misrepresenting it, then. The issue is that a straight man can visit his wife in the hospital, make medical decisions for her should she be incapacitated, and make funeral arrangements for her. A gay man cannot do the same for his boyfriend in areas which have not legalized SSM, because those rights are reserved for married couples, and he cannot marry his boyfriend in those jurisdictions which haven't legalized it, nor can he get married in a jurisdiction that has, and have that marriage recognized in those jurisdictions which haven't.

[Grenartia]

It was turning into a discussion of same-sex marriage.

Which has nothing to do with economics or homosexuality?

NSG: Where discussing same sex marriage in a thread on what communists/socialists think about LGBT rights is a threadjack.

[Wisconsin9]

Everyone consents? No? Those who don't consent (to it, I dunno, existing or something) unharmed? Yes? Go for it. Get hitched. Be happy. Have awesome sex.

[Escasia]

Homosexuals deserve to have their orientation respected. Almost every western communist/socialist I know of sees homophobia as a reactionary and divisive obstacle.

Homophobia was an acceptable part of communist discourse in places like the USSR or the PRC because that prejudice was already particularly widespread there, and I think sometimes communists like to perform all sorts of acrobatics to shove their own, already existing personal prejudices into Marxist theory. That's why every now and again we get some third-worldist Maoists banging on about homosexuality being "bourgeois decadence". Those people mostly just get laughed at now.

[Grenartia]

Homosexuals deserve to have their orientation respected. Almost every western communist/socialist I know of sees homophobia as a reactionary and divisive obstacle.

Homophobia was an acceptable part of communist discourse in places like the USSR or the PRC because that prejudice was already particularly widespread there, and I think sometimes communists like to perform all sorts of acrobatics to shove their own, already existing personal prejudices into Marxist theory. That's why every now and again we get some third-worldist Maoists banging on about homosexuality being "bourgeois decadence". Those people mostly just get laughed at now.

I say we need to educate them as to how, much like racial issues in the time of Marx, negative attitudes towards those who have sexual orientations and gender identities other than cisgender and/or heterosexual are created by the capitalist class to divide us. And that regardless of whether or not one thinks the PRC and the USSR and its puppet states were/are truly communist/socialist, those entities fell for the bait on this issue.

[Blekksprutia]

I think they're pretty awesome. I think I'm pretty awesome

[Greater Istanistan]

In my view, the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation. It should stick to where it's needed (economy, education, health, welfare), and stay out of where it's not wanted.

[Pandeeria]

I'm in support of LGBT+ rights.

Generally the Regimes of the past, like the USSR, used homophobia not as a means to genuinely oppose homosexuality, but to further the power of the State even more.

[Dollaria]

I'm a gay communist.

Now, if only you were also a Jew with Romani and Slavic ancestry... we'd see some Nazi head asplode just at the idea.

I can already imagine a nazi siting in front of his monitor and raging while reading this thread
And they say you commies don't have a sense of humour

[The Confederal Republic]

As a Socialist (and, really, more or less a Social Conservative and Nationalist too), I do not personally support homosexual marriage whatsoever, however I don't think its my place to enforce my beliefs on others, and believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry as they please.

[Regica]

Well, considering that I'm a democratic socialist and also bisexual, you can tell what my opinion is going to be.

I believe that, overall, most socialists and communists support LGBT rights due to the fact that we wish to see everyone equal, regardless of gender, creed, sexual orientation, or colour of our skin.

[Grenartia]

As a Socialist (and, really, more or less a Social Conservative and Nationalist too), I do not personally support homosexual marriage whatsoever, however I don't think its my place to enforce my beliefs on others, and believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry as they please.

A Medal. Give this person^ one.

[United Marxist Nations]

Care to elaborate about this "women's social and sexual liberation", which were, supposedly, denied to the Soviet women.

The easy example would be Stalin's illegalization of abortion and homosexual activity, both of which were originally legalized under Lenin. Remember Soltz's formulation that women had no right to decline the (alleged) joys of motherhood? That kind of thing was rampant in the Stalinist bureaucracy from the 1930s onward.

Just a nitpick here, but I think what the USSR extolled was the population growth that the nomenklatura desired, even if this was hidden in cryptic wording.

[Provaskola]

Honestly if someone is homosexual, and is not hurting anyone, I say leave them be.
"Live and let live," that's what I live by.

[Kubra]

Whoa whoa whoa why is Guy Hocquenghem being used as an anti-homosexual example? This is the guy who wrote "our assholes are revolutionary".

[The Alma Mater]

Surely in true communism group marriages, where a bunch of men and women form a commune that cares for the children together, should be the norm ?
In which case it matters very little who fucks who, as long as some of the participants in the marriage reproduce. And each kid will have 20 mommies and daddies.

[Kumuri]

That's why every now and again we get some third-worldist Maoists banging on about homosexuality being "bourgeois decadence". Those people mostly just get laughed at now.

Third-worldists are a joke.
"White people can't be proletarian!"
"The Naxalites and CPI(M) are revisionist!"
"The Black Panthers weren't revolutionary because they existed in the First World!"
/examples of stupid things third-worldists say

[Communist Bloodia]

Homosexual's should have the same rights as every other human being.

[Coccygia]

Capitalism causes homosexuality? That's got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Compared* to this, Robert Graves's theory that it's caused by drinking milk doesn't sound nearly so crazy.

*I emphasize: compared to this.

[Martean]

Nowadays, in every first-world country, it's communists and socialists the ones whi are defending homosexuals the most.