Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Build a Bridge, Get Over It

[Lytenburgh]

As for "crap" - non-member countries somehow manage to deal with that. Besides, what was the need to such urgent (1999) medernization of military capabilities if you were not threatened by anyone?

having shiny new toys tanks is fun.

Monsiuer is into gun-pron?

[Geilinor]

having shiny new toys tanks is fun.

Monsiuer is into gun-pron?

Lyt, see the word "modernization" in your earlier post? Stuff gets old. It gets replaced.

[The balkens]

Monsiuer is into gun-pron?

Lyt, see the word "modernization" in your earlier post? Stuff gets old. It gets replaced.

Apparently Russia is the only country in Eastern Europe to Modernize its military.

[Lytenburgh]

It doesn't have to be a European attacker. The North Atlantic Treaty applied even in the case of 9/11.

Who? China? Iraq? Libya? All of them would SUDDENLY attack and occupy poor Estonia, without anybody noticing it coming AND won't help it! Even neighbors! Even EU! Even UN! No! Only NATO, the force of Everything Good and Blessed, could have saved Chezh Republic in 1999 and Lithuania in 2004 from attack coming from... somewhere-not-in-Europe!

[Washington Resistance Army]

It doesn't have to be a European attacker. The North Atlantic Treaty applied even in the case of 9/11.

Who? China? Iraq? Libya? All of them would SUDDENLY attack and occupy poor Estonia, without anybody noticing it coming AND won't help it! Even neighbors! Even EU! Even UN! No! Only NATO, the force of Everything Good and Blessed, could have saved Chezh Republic in 1999 and Lithuania in 2004 from attack coming from... somewhere-not-in-Europe!

What exactly do you have against nations joining an alliance of their own free will? Is it because they're aligning with the Great Satan Homosexualist Russophobes™ ©®?

[Lytenburgh]

See Lyt, you might have been able to have a point with all this if Russia didn't invade another country and start arming and sending "volunteers" to fight in another part of said country. Russia has made itself seem like a threat again, they made their bed now they get to lay in it.

Don't move goalposts. Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20! "Ukraine should kept its nukes!", yadda-yadda-yadda.

Do you understand that the process of couses and consequences is much complicated then that? More complicated then "lets travel back in time and nuke Russia! This will teach them and prevent the Ukrainian invasion! Huzzah for 'Morcacy!"

Once again - I'm talking about late 90s-00s period here. And no one - even you - so far answered me, who thretened New European countries.

[Lytenburgh]

Monsiuer is into gun-pron?

Lyt, see the word "modernization" in your earlier post? Stuff gets old. It gets replaced.

See my previous post? It couldn't be done without NATO membership?

[Washington Resistance Army]

See Lyt, you might have been able to have a point with all this if Russia didn't invade another country and start arming and sending "volunteers" to fight in another part of said country. Russia has made itself seem like a threat again, they made their bed now they get to lay in it.

Don't move goalposts. Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20! "Ukraine should kept its nukes!", yadda-yadda-yadda.

Do you understand that the process of couses and consequences is much complicated then that? More complicated then "lets travel back in time and nuke Russia! This will teach them and prevent the Ukrainian invasion! Huzzah for 'Morcacy!"

Once again - I'm talking about late 90s-00s period here. And no one - even you - so far answered me, who thretened New European countries.

No one threatened them, but they decided they wanted to join NATO anyway. Now, what in the hell is so hard to comprehend about that?

No one forced them to join NATO, they wanted to join and they were accepted. It isn't a vast anti-Russian conspiracy, it isn't a plot for the ebul west to conquer everything, they simply wanted to join NATO. Would you have complained so much if they wanted an alliance with Russia after the Cold War ended?

[Lytenburgh]

What exactly do you have against nations joining an alliance of their own free will? Is it because they're aligning with the Great Satan Homosexualist Russophobes™ ©®?

I want to hear - "Why"? Why did they "joined on their own free will"? Why they felt they needed that? What kinds of threats they thought only NATO can save them from?

We are talking about states, governments. For them "Just because" is not a reason.

[Korva]

Lyt, see the word "modernization" in your earlier post? Stuff gets old. It gets replaced.

Apparently Russia is the only country in Eastern Europe to Modernize its military.

Why modernize when you can just stick to 30 year old airframes and remain completely dependent on russia for spares and maintenance?

[Geilinor]

It doesn't have to be a European attacker. The North Atlantic Treaty applied even in the case of 9/11.

Who? China? Iraq? Libya? All of them would SUDDENLY attack and occupy poor Estonia, without anybody noticing it coming AND won't help it! Even neighbors! Even EU! Even UN! No! Only NATO, the force of Everything Good and Blessed, could have saved Chezh Republic in 1999 and Lithuania in 2004 from attack coming from... somewhere-not-in-Europe!

Can you stop being absurd?

[Washington Resistance Army]

What exactly do you have against nations joining an alliance of their own free will? Is it because they're aligning with the Great Satan Homosexualist Russophobes™ ©®?

I want to hear - "Why"? Why did they "joined on their own free will"? Why they felt they needed that? What kinds of threats they thought only NATO can save them from?

We are talking about states, governments. For them "Just because" is not a reason.

It might have had something to do with the whole being kept under the USSR's boot and crushed every time they tried to do something of their own. But I'd be a Russophobic Fascist if I said that, so we'll just go with reasons.

[Roski]

What exactly do you have against nations joining an alliance of their own free will? Is it because they're aligning with the Great Satan Homosexualist Russophobes™ ©®?

I want to hear - "Why"? Why did they "joined on their own free will"? Why they felt they needed that? What kinds of threats they thought only NATO can save them from?

We are talking about states, governments. For them "Just because" is not a reason.

Rogue nations? North Korea, Iran, other threats, as seen from the September 11th Bombingd in the United States?

But you're looking fucking stupid stating that NATO doesnt need to exist as Russia continuously tests the West... Everytime a nuclear capable bomber nearly penetrates a nation's airspace, ten thousand civilians turn against Russia and want it to die.

[Lytenburgh]

It might have had something to do with the whole being kept under the USSR's boot and crushed every time they tried to do something of their own. But I'd be a Russophobic Fascist if I said that, so we'll just go with reasons.

Oh! I get it! "New Europe" can entertain its paronoia, suspicions and intolerances - but not Russia! Even Yeltsin's Russia was too threatinging for them - this is what you are trying to say? Russia should... what were ASB's words?

Russia needs to... get on with the business of living at peace with the rest of the world ― and its European neighbors in particular.

and, most importantly:

If Russians do indeed feel the way you say ― IOW, if they're as fucking paranoid as you say ― then we HAVE to take a hard line, because people that paranoid with that kind of sense of entitlement are going to kill us in our sleep should they ever get the chance, just because their crazy xenophobic assholes.

His words - not mine!

[Lytenburgh]

Rogue nations? North Korea, Iran, other threats, as seen from the September 11th Bombingd in the United States?

But you're looking fucking stupid stating that NATO doesnt need to exist as Russia continuously tests the West... Everytime a nuclear capable bomber nearly penetrates a nation's airspace, ten thousand civilians turn against Russia and want it to die.

Really? Best Korea would SUDDENLY bomb Prague' Hrad fur evulz? And only NATO-membership saved poor Czechs from this?

[Roski]

It might have had something to do with the whole being kept under the USSR's boot and crushed every time they tried to do something of their own. But I'd be a Russophobic Fascist if I said that, so we'll just go with reasons.

Oh! I get it! "New Europe" can entertain its paronoia, suspicions and intolerances - but not Russia! Even Yeltsin's Russia was to threatinging for them - this is what you are trying to say? Russia should... what were ASB's words?

Russia needs to... get on with the business of living at peace with the rest of the world ― and its European neighbors in particular.

and, most importantly:

If Russians do indeed feel the way you say ― IOW, if they're as fucking paranoid as you say ― then we HAVE to take a hard line, because people that paranoid with that kind of sense of entitlement are going to kill us in our sleep should they ever get the chance, just because their crazy xenophobic assholes.

His words - not mine!

You know what's bloody hilarious:

However current Russian leadership has made it clear that Russia does not plan to join the alliance, preferring to keep cooperation on a lower level now. The Russian envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, is quoted as saying "Great powers don't join coalitions, they create coalitions. Russia considers itself a great power," although he said that Russia did not rule out membership at some point in the future.[13] In March 2000 president Vladimir Putin, in interview to British television said Russia could once join NATO.[31]

[Roski]

Rogue nations? North Korea, Iran, other threats, as seen from the September 11th Bombingd in the United States?

But you're looking fucking stupid stating that NATO doesnt need to exist as Russia continuously tests the West... Everytime a nuclear capable bomber nearly penetrates a nation's airspace, ten thousand civilians turn against Russia and want it to die.

Really? Best Korea would SUDDENLY bomb Prague' Hrad fur evulz? And only NATO-membership saved poor Czechs from this?

You're being very daft, you almost sound like the White House

[Washington Resistance Army]

Snip all this shit

See Lyt, the difference between 1990's Russia and 1990's Poland is one of them was controlled by the other for the past 50 years and had no say in anything. Wanna take a guess at which one it was?

Russia's paranoia is baseless and frankly retarded. If the west wanted to wipe out Russia in the 1990's Bush or Clinton would have just hit the big red button and that would have been the end of that. The former Warsaw Pact states gravitated towards NATO because guess what? They liked the west more than Russia, it's as simple as that. You never answered my question (I am used to that by now though), but would you have bitched about it so much if say, Poland and Romania wanted an alliance with Russia after the Cold War ended?

[Roski]

Snip all this shit

See Lyt, the difference between 1990's Russia and 1990's Poland is one of them was controlled by the other for the past 50 years and had no say in anything. Wanna take a guess at which one it was?

Russia's paranoia is baseless and frankly retarded. If the west wanted to wipe out Russia in the 1990's Bush or Clinton would have just hit the big red button and that would have been the end of that. The former Warsaw Pact states gravitated towards NATO because guess what? They liked the west more than Russia, it's as simple as that. You never answered my question (I am used to that by now though), but would you have bitched about it so much if say, Poland and Romania wanted an alliance with Russia after the Cold War ended?

Oh, you mean the Commonwealth of Independent States?

[The South Polish Union]

Lyt, see the word "modernization" in your earlier post? Stuff gets old. It gets replaced.

See my previous post? It couldn't be done without NATO membership?

it would've been a lot more difficult and expensive. my apologies for my country trying to be economically responsible and getting a promise of protection if anything happened to us at the sane time.

pragmatism sure sucks, i mean now we've modernized our army and were stuck with some crappy defense treaty that well totally never need

*looks at ukraine*

let me reconsider that last bit there...

[Geilinor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
I just remembered CSTO existed. How dare you explain about the existence of NATO, Lyt.

[Washington Resistance Army]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
I just remembered CSTO existed. How dare you explain about the existence of NATO, Lyt.

It's only evil and irrational when the west does it

[Jinwoy]

Its only tu-quoque when Pro-Russians do it, after all.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Its only tu-quoque when Pro-Russians do it, after all.

Do you even know what that means?

[Jinwoy]

Its only tu-quoque when Pro-Russians do it, after all.

Do you even know what that means?

"You too".
"Why criticise NATO? What about Russian-led CSTO!?" Is a textbook example of Tu Quoque.
Are you done, or do you have more redundant questions?