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Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Build a Bridge, Get Over It

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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:29 am

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Texas volunteer Russell Bonner Bentley with Brazilian volunteer Mikel Oibar fighting for Novorossiya.

Meanwhile, the wolrd press got the undeniable evidence, that the USSR is sending vilunteers to Donbass:

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Slobozhanshchyna
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Postby Slobozhanshchyna » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:41 am

Hey, look, the brick wall's back!

Meanwhile, I stumbled upon an exhibit showing some vehicles from the conflict area, yay for original content:

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Last edited by Slobozhanshchyna on Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jinwoy » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:56 am

Slobozhanshchyna wrote:Hey, look, the brick wall's back!


I hope you're using that ironically...
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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:15 am

Meanwhile new Ukrainian "влада" yet again proved that they are either:

1) Live in a parallel universe.
2) Shameless liars.

Poroshenko's ally: Debaltseve will go down in history as a successful operation

Ukrainian MP from the "Block of Petro Poroshenko" Irina Friz is sure that the operation in Debaltseve will go down in history of the Ukraine as a success. She said this in a live TV channel "112 Ukraine".

"Debaltseve is not a tragic story of our soldiers. Debaltseve will surely go down in military history of the Ukraine as a successful operation of the ATO," - said the People's Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada.

Earlier, the deputy head of the ATO Colonel Valentin Fedichev said that withdroval from Debaltseve was one of the most complex and successful operations of forces ATO, reports news agency "112.UA".


You know - simple facepalm won't do this time. These claims require something much more stronger. Something, whith which even J-L Picard can't help us here.

This!

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Last edited by Lytenburgh on Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.


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West Aurelia
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Postby West Aurelia » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:01 am

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Malgrave
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Postby Malgrave » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:29 am

In a meeting with students Sergei Lavrov said that Ukraine must keep its non-aligned status or face being split into several pieces

Ongoing training of drafted paratroopers in Ukraine. A few nice pictures of the training process and one of what I think is a Ukrainian BTR-3.
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Bratislavskaya
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Postby Bratislavskaya » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:58 am

Korva wrote:Eight Spaniards have been arrested in Spain for complicity in murder and possession of weapons.

The men had posted pictures of themselves fighting alongside the rebels. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Just like the original International Brigades: Went to fight fascists and were persecuted when they returned.
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Malgrave
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Postby Malgrave » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:03 am

Bratislavskaya wrote:
Korva wrote:Eight Spaniards have been arrested in Spain for complicity in murder and possession of weapons.

The men had posted pictures of themselves fighting alongside the rebels. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Just like the original International Brigades: Went to fight fascists and were persecuted when they returned.



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Bratislavskaya
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Postby Bratislavskaya » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:23 am

Malgrave wrote:
Bratislavskaya wrote:Just like the original International Brigades: Went to fight fascists and were persecuted when they returned.



-snip-

Thats what happened in a number of nations to International Brigade Fighters for example the US, Switzerland and Canada. If you're talking about the fighting fascism part, that is what they saw it as so it is applicable. Also, since when was Captain Haddock a thing?
Slobozhanshchyna wrote:Hey, look, the brick wall's back!

Meanwhile, I stumbled upon an exhibit showing some vehicles from the conflict area, yay for original content:

-snip-

Where was this?
Last edited by Bratislavskaya on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:02 pm

Meanwhile the economic situation in the Ukraine is worsening on nearly daily basis.

While The West Was Debating About 'Defensive Weapons,' Ukraine's Economy Collapsed

Although the oft-violated ceasefire in the Donbass appears to be temporarily holding, this week saw the first day in many weeks in which the Ukrainian army did not suffer any combat causalities, the news remains unremittingly bleak for Ukraine’s pro-Western government. Russia has rapidly and deftly switched its primary pressure from military to economic. Gazprom, the Russian natural gas monopoly that still provides the lion’s share of Ukraine’s energy, is threatening to cut off gas supplies unless it receives prepayment for future deliveries. Given Ukraine’s incredibly precarious state finances and its extreme shortage of foreign currency (Ukraine pays Russia for natural gas in US dollars) this new effort is tantamount to driving Kiev into bankruptcy.

As Bloomberg put it, “Russia is damaging Ukraine’s economy faster than the US and its European allies can provide support.” The hryvnia, already the world’s worst performing currency, has lost almost 50% of its (already greatly reduced!) value over just the past month. The aid package from the International Monetary Fund that was announced recently is still awaiting approval by the IMF’s executive board, which is now making ominous noises that Ukraine risks “losing support” if the military conflict continues to escalate. March 11th is the earliest date that the IMF will officially approve Ukraine’s aid package, and it’s anyone’s guess as to how much worse things will get in the interim.

A graph of the hryvnia over the past year shows a terrifying, almost exponential collapse against the dollar, a collapse that shows no sign of reversing. As of the writing of this article on the morning of February 26th, the carnage was accelerating and the hryvnia was plumbing record lows against the dollar on an hourly basis (it was at 33.6 upon publication). According to the WSJ, the black market exchange rate is even higher at roughly 40 hryvnias a dollar.


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This currency rout has reached such a level that the Ukrainian Central Bank has imposed draconian capital controls in order to stem the surge of money out of the country. For a number of reasons, including Ukraine’s still titanic level of corruption and the weak capacity of its government institutions, these policies have been largely ineffective.

The Central Bank is in such a desperate state that it went so far as to essentially ban all foreign currency trading for the rest of the week. The only dollars that the bank made available were offered at an exchange rate roughly 50% lower than the commercial rate. These drastic steps, while clearly necessary to prevent a total financial collapse, are in direct opposition to Ukraine’s commitments to the IMF, and the IMF has announced that it expects all of these policies will eventually be undone. The situation is simply disastrous.

In Russia the economic outlook is far from sunny, but the ruble has nonetheless been slowly recovering some of its earlier losses. The modest rally in oil prices likely explains why the Kremlin feels confident enough to exert even more economic pressure on Kiev. So long as oil is creeping higher, expect the Russians to ratchet up the tension.

The amount of Western assistance promised to Ukraine was always likely to be insufficient in scale to address the country’s ever-worsening economic ills. Even the much-ballyhooed IMF aid package would barely get foreign currency reserves back to where they were a year ago, when they were already still too low. What is clear now, though, is that the delivery of this aid needs to be urgently expedited if total catastrophe is to be averted. Ukraine doesn’t need funding a month or a year from now, it needs cash today and it needs quite a lot of it.

If the West is actually in a hurry to get Ukraine any money, though, it is doing a good job of pretending otherwise. Despite optimistic press releases and serious sounding sermons about “solidarity,” the amount of non-rhetorical assistance received by the authorities in Kiev has been paltry. The non-receipt of assistance is what explains the drastic, unexpected, and increasingly desperate Central Bank interventions.

In the parlance of international relations Russia has always enjoyed “escalation dominance” in the military realm, since it has the capacity to escalate the conflict in the Donbass in a way that Ukraine and the West simply cannot match. As events of the past week are making clear, though, it appears that Russia’s escalation dominance might extent to Ukraine’s economy as well: it has the ability to inflict disproportionate economic harm at times and places of its choosing. The West has more than enough money so that it could meet and exceed Russian economic pressure, but it needs to act.


Meanwhile In Mariupol Dollar is selling for 44 gryvnas:

This caused a panic in the city - in many shops in the city people are buying cereals, flour, sugar. By the way, the price of sugar already reached 18 hryvnia per kilogram. "Soon people will buy cookies to drink tea without sugar," - joked seller.

The cost of a liter of gasoline also broke the record - more than 26 hryvnia per liter of A-95.

According to experts, now we should expect the price rise for imported goods and products. For example, in city there was dramatically ncrease in the cost of a kilogram of herring - up to 60 hryvnia. For the same money you can buy a kilo of meat.

It is noteworthy that the dollar in Kiev costs a little different - there you can buy a dollar for 36 hryvnia, but also to sell it for 32 hryvnia.


And new Ukrainian "влада" is fast approcahing a "Let them eat cake" level of don't giving a shit about their subjects:

Klitschko is surprised that the people of Kiev require to raise their salaries

Kyiv's Mayor Vitali Klitschko called a rally at the walls of the Kiev city administration a provocation; he called it strange that the protesters demanded "to reduce the price of gasoline, to raise salaries and pensions and stop falling of hryvnia."

In Kiev, on Thursday a rally demanding the resignation of the mayor of the capital of Ukraine was held. According to the correspondent of RIA Novosti, the rally was attended by about a thousand people. The rally participants blocked the vehicular traffic on Khreschatyk Street near City Hall. They held banners, including with such inscriptions as: "Klitschko !!! You robbed pensioners. Retire yourself" "Mayor, protect our children from your "reformers".

"Those who are not interested in returning to peaceful life in Ukraine, in the success of our state, who did not abandoned their attempts to blow up the situation not only in eastern Ukraine, but also in other cities. The terrorist attack in Kharkov, explosions in Odessa, blocking of traffic in the capital and other provocation aimed at one thing - to destabilize the situation in the country "- quoted by the press service of the Klitschko Kiev administration.

He believes that the rally at the walls of the administration was organized by provocateurs.

"It's strange, when near the City's Municipality gather people with the requirements of such actions like, in particular, to reduce the price of gasoline, to raise salaries and pensions, stop falling hryvnia. Provocateurs today are enjoying the difficult economic situation in the Ukraine and try to use Kiev citizens in their dirty games. The city government is working openly and transparent. We are ready to talk with all the people of Kiev, but only on topics withing the competence of the metropolitan government, "- said the mayor of the capital.

He noted that today's action under the KSCA was well prepared and planned.


See, people? Now, in Free and Independent Ukraine protests against the current regime = acts of terrorism.
Last edited by Lytenburgh on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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West Aurelia
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Postby West Aurelia » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:50 am

Last edited by West Aurelia on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:52 am

As we all know, the current regime in Kiev decided to proclaim its humiliating defeat and retreat from Debaltsevo as another "перемога".

Of course it is!

A) Meanwhile, Novorossiyan forces began to leak images of some other trophies taken by then in Debaltsevo:

1 - Ukrainian battalion banner, with written best wishes from Kharkov like "You are the best!" and "Return alive!"

2 - IDs (counter clockwise) - of the Ukrainian officer, of a young soldier (1995 y. o. b.) drafted 2 April 2014. of 2 police officers and (SUDDENLY!) UN Id card of some Victor Lukashuk. Plus their dog-tags and a shoulder-pad with "UKROP" wtitten on it.

But, as we all know (thanks to such honest source as the Ukrainian president) - втрат немає.

B) Inerview of the Ukrainian soldier of 128th brigade (who barely managed to escape from Debaltsevo) and woman volunteer worker. They say that UkrArmy had to abandon 90% of their own hardware. They didn't have the time to destroy it, repair or even re-fuel - the order to withdraw came suddenly. "Petya Porokh - is a bad person", says soldier. He also says that a lot of his fellow troopers were killed during the attempt to break through.

C) Another Kosher interview to the Ukrainian channel ICTV - Soldier from Debaltseve: battalion commander fled, wounded died while we were eating snow

Translation:

DMITRY SHERBACHUK: soldier Dmitry Sherbachuk, 25 Battalion "Kievan Rus', the second company.

Reporter: You were in Debaltseve?

DMITRY SHERBACHUK: That's right.

Reporter: Please tell me how did you withdraw?

DMITRY SHERBACHUK: What, excuse me?

Reporter: How did you withdraw from Debaltseve, what was the situation when you departed from there?

DMITRY SHERBACHUK: Yes, we were surrounded in Debaltseve for about three weeks. And for two weeks we were surrounded without battalion commander, political officer and without any guidance.

The road was cut off at Loginovo towards Debaltseve-Artemovsk. We were without water, without food, without anything, we had tp drank water from the river. We Smoked cigarette butts, cigarette butts, out of five we did one cigarette, that's how we survived.

In addition to all this there were many dead and wounded around, there they lay in piles and nobody cared about them, as the road was closed for Artemovsk. Plus, unfortunately, many of the wounded ("three hundredth") turned into "two hundredth" (dead). We managed at one point to load some of the "two hundredth" and try to drive to Artemovsk though some dark paths, but because of the attacks they never made. These "two hundredth" are still somewhere there.

Reporter: Many were killed there?

DMITRY SHERBACHUK: Of course. There about 30 dead from our unit still lies here. And the fact that we had to break through through, what they called a planned withdrowal, it was a planned flight to avoid falling into the "cauldron", like the one in Ilovaisk. We knew that the track was blocked, battalion commanders escaped two weeks ago and appeared no longer - no commander, no political officer...

... And we didn't know that we are going to retreat - at the last minute we were transfered under 128th battalion command - we thought we hold to the last, but the 128 battalion actually abandoned us. We have seen that they decided to get out, they are 12, and we are at 4 PM o'clock, and we had to get break out on our own.

First, we left, and then the shelling began, who so we started to run as fast as we can. Through the rivers, fields, lakes and swamps. There was a bit of snow, we ate it on the road, because there was nothing wlse to eat. We ate snow.

But when we waded through rivers and lakes, they shot at us with all the bullets, that them, the so-called Novorossiya, our brothers from Russia, who fired rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, tanks, SPGs... But we were beaten, ran, fell down, got up and continued to run. But since we did not know the road, we wandered across the field and quickly lost our way.

If you take a straight line from Debaltseve to Artemovsk it is 47 kilometers, and almost 47 kmswe walked thorugh the fields. Here you walk through the gorge there, the same way you go back. When we crossed the river, no one paid attention, wet or not, but we went ahead. It was hard to look at the field, when there were many of our killed brothers.

Unfortunately, when we walked through the field, got into a fight with a separs. There were a couple of dozens of them and only a few of us, and also we did not expect a fight. And we were there on the field when we lost two of our soldiers - "Hotabych", the name of the second I do not remember, but it doesn't matter. When we huddled together, I said, that there could be be an artillery spotter here, so we began to disperse in all directions: in the hills, behind the poles, in the pits. Bullets whistled, and we ran in small dashes, unfortunately, we lost two more taken prisoner, not from our unit, but from other stragglers - there were all manner of troopers able to cling to us: from 128th, 30th, 54th and 13th. Everyone wanted to survive and escape, because nobody hoped on our leadership.

And we felt really sorry, when saw the field with a lot of corpses, and when we saw our APCs stuck in the field, and there were more killed people, I think they are still there. They should be send to their houses to be buried, but our government does not think about it, because they knew that our war was lost. They knew that the soldiers are not used to protect Ukraine, but only for show.

And here's an example, when the situation worsened, our commanders fled. Another example - they commanded sectors and did not know which is which, where is anyone, where is the 25 battalion, where the 128 battalion. When they finally calculated, where we were stationd, we were already sunder artillery bombardment. We asked for help from our artillery, and they could not help because of the truce. People were dying in front of our hangar, we have to bring corpses inside.

I will not lie, my fellow soldier can also confirm these words, and those words can be confirmed by 98 percent of them: our corpses were laying in the hangar, because there was no place to put them anywhere else.


D) This is newly dug Krasnopolskoye graveyard near Dniepropetrovsk. As seen by their plaques - these are graves of "Uknown Soldiers" of the UkrArmy. C'mon, count them. Plus the freshly dug and empty for now graves.

But, of course, lets ignore all the evidence and stick with the Official Kievan propaganda, that "there are no losses"
Last edited by Lytenburgh on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:25 am



Article makes some very good points:

It’s easy to forget that just two years ago, President Obama was determined to bomb Syria and remove the Assad regime, and U.S. establishment institutions were working to lay the groundwork for that campaign. NPR began dutifully publishing reports from anonymous U.S. officials that Syria had stockpiled large amounts of chemical weapons; the NYT was reporting that Obama was “increasing aid to the rebels and redoubling efforts to rally a coalition of like-minded countries to forcibly bring down” Assad; Secretary of State John Kerry pronounced that forced removal of Assad was “a matter of national security” and “a matter of the credibility of the United States of America.”

Those opposed to the anti-Assad “regime change” bombing campaign argued that while some of the rebellion was composed of ordinary Syrians, the “rebels” the U.S. would arm and empower (i.e., the only effective anti-Assad fighters) were actually violent extremists and even terrorists aligned with Al Qaeda and worse. The people arguing that were invariably smeared as Assad apologists because this happened to be the same argument Assad was making: that the most effective fighters against him were jihadis and terrorists.

But that argument in D.C. was quickly converted from taboo into conventional wisdom the moment it was needed to justify U.S. involvement in Syria. The U.S. is now bombing Syria, of course, but rather than fighting against Assad, the Syrian dictator is (once again) America’s ally and partner. The rationale for the U.S. bombing campaign is the same one Assad long invoked: that those fighting against him are worse than he is because they are aligned with Al Qeada and ISIS (even though the U.S. funded and armed those factions for years and their closest allies in the region continue to do so).

A similar dynamic is at play in Russia and Ukraine. Yesterday, Obama’s top national security official, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, told a Senate Committee “that he supports arming Ukrainian forces against Russian-backed separatists,” as the Washington Post put it. The U.S. has already provided “non-lethal” aid to Ukrainian forces, and Obama has said he is now considering arming them. Who, exactly, would that empower?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long said that the Ukrainian coup of last year, and the subsequent regime in Kiev, is driven by ultra-nationalists, fascists, and even neo-Nazi factions. The Russian TV outlet RT also frequently refers to “the active role far-right groups have played on the pro-government side in Ukraine since the violent coup of the last year.”

For that reason, anyone pointing out that arming the regime in Kiev would strengthen fascists and neo-Nazis is instantly accused of being a Putin propagandist: exactly like those arguing that the best anti-Assad fighters were al-Qaeda-affiliated were accused of being Assad propagandists (until that became the official position of the US Government). U.S. media accounts invariably depict the conflict in Ukraine as a noble struggle waged by the freedom-loving, pro-west democrats in Kiev against the oppressive, aggressive “Russian-backed” separatists in the east.

But just as was true in Syria: while some involved in the Ukrainian coup were ordinary Ukrainians fighting against a corrupt and oppressive regime, these claims about the fascist thugs leading the fight for the Kiev government are actually true.


and:

Ever since the coup in Kiev was carried out, these unpleasant facts about the pro-government forces have been largely ignored in most establishment U.S. media accounts, leaving a handful of commentators to point them out. In January of last year, as the coup was unfolding, the Guardian‘s Seumas Milne argued that the west’s morality narrative about Ukraine – democracy-fighters v. Putin oppressors – “bears only the sketchiest relationship to reality” and that, instead, “far-right nationalists and fascists have been at the heart of the protests and attacks on government buildings.” Britain’s Channel 4 reported on the central role played by far-right ultra-nationalists in that coup, noting that Sen. John McCain traveled to the Ukrainian capital (pictured, above) and shared a stage with the worst fascist elements. Antiwar.com’s Justin Raimondo has long been warning of “the ascension of a genuinely fascist mass movement into the corridors of power” in Kiev, noting that far from being a handful of fringe elements, “the activists of the two main fascist parties in Ukraine – Svoboda and ‘Right Sector’ – provided the muscle the insurrectionists needed to take over government buildings in Kiev and across western Ukraine.”

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West Aurelia
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Postby West Aurelia » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:32 am

Lytenburgh wrote:


Article makes some very good points:

It’s easy to forget that just two years ago, President Obama was determined to bomb Syria and remove the Assad regime, and U.S. establishment institutions were working to lay the groundwork for that campaign. NPR began dutifully publishing reports from anonymous U.S. officials that Syria had stockpiled large amounts of chemical weapons; the NYT was reporting that Obama was “increasing aid to the rebels and redoubling efforts to rally a coalition of like-minded countries to forcibly bring down” Assad; Secretary of State John Kerry pronounced that forced removal of Assad was “a matter of national security” and “a matter of the credibility of the United States of America.”

Those opposed to the anti-Assad “regime change” bombing campaign argued that while some of the rebellion was composed of ordinary Syrians, the “rebels” the U.S. would arm and empower (i.e., the only effective anti-Assad fighters) were actually violent extremists and even terrorists aligned with Al Qaeda and worse. The people arguing that were invariably smeared as Assad apologists because this happened to be the same argument Assad was making: that the most effective fighters against him were jihadis and terrorists.

But that argument in D.C. was quickly converted from taboo into conventional wisdom the moment it was needed to justify U.S. involvement in Syria. The U.S. is now bombing Syria, of course, but rather than fighting against Assad, the Syrian dictator is (once again) America’s ally and partner. The rationale for the U.S. bombing campaign is the same one Assad long invoked: that those fighting against him are worse than he is because they are aligned with Al Qeada and ISIS (even though the U.S. funded and armed those factions for years and their closest allies in the region continue to do so).

A similar dynamic is at play in Russia and Ukraine. Yesterday, Obama’s top national security official, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, told a Senate Committee “that he supports arming Ukrainian forces against Russian-backed separatists,” as the Washington Post put it. The U.S. has already provided “non-lethal” aid to Ukrainian forces, and Obama has said he is now considering arming them. Who, exactly, would that empower?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long said that the Ukrainian coup of last year, and the subsequent regime in Kiev, is driven by ultra-nationalists, fascists, and even neo-Nazi factions. The Russian TV outlet RT also frequently refers to “the active role far-right groups have played on the pro-government side in Ukraine since the violent coup of the last year.”

For that reason, anyone pointing out that arming the regime in Kiev would strengthen fascists and neo-Nazis is instantly accused of being a Putin propagandist: exactly like those arguing that the best anti-Assad fighters were al-Qaeda-affiliated were accused of being Assad propagandists (until that became the official position of the US Government). U.S. media accounts invariably depict the conflict in Ukraine as a noble struggle waged by the freedom-loving, pro-west democrats in Kiev against the oppressive, aggressive “Russian-backed” separatists in the east.

But just as was true in Syria: while some involved in the Ukrainian coup were ordinary Ukrainians fighting against a corrupt and oppressive regime, these claims about the fascist thugs leading the fight for the Kiev government are actually true.


and:

Ever since the coup in Kiev was carried out, these unpleasant facts about the pro-government forces have been largely ignored in most establishment U.S. media accounts, leaving a handful of commentators to point them out. In January of last year, as the coup was unfolding, the Guardian‘s Seumas Milne argued that the west’s morality narrative about Ukraine – democracy-fighters v. Putin oppressors – “bears only the sketchiest relationship to reality” and that, instead, “far-right nationalists and fascists have been at the heart of the protests and attacks on government buildings.” Britain’s Channel 4 reported on the central role played by far-right ultra-nationalists in that coup, noting that Sen. John McCain traveled to the Ukrainian capital (pictured, above) and shared a stage with the worst fascist elements. Antiwar.com’s Justin Raimondo has long been warning of “the ascension of a genuinely fascist mass movement into the corridors of power” in Kiev, noting that far from being a handful of fringe elements, “the activists of the two main fascist parties in Ukraine – Svoboda and ‘Right Sector’ – provided the muscle the insurrectionists needed to take over government buildings in Kiev and across western Ukraine.”


I see this as an important point:

The militias have also gained more power because the Ukrainian government, led by new President Petro Poroshenko, brought them friends in high places. For instance, Arsen Avakov, Poroshenko’s Minister of Internal Affairs, was previously the leader of former Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko’s political bloc in eastern Ukraine. He has a longstanding alliance with members of the Azov Battalion, a far-right organization whose members have a history of promoting anti-Semitism and neo-Nazi views. Avakov has has used his position to support the group, going so far as to appoint Vadim Troyan, an Azov deputy leader, as the chief of police for the whole Kiev region. And Azov’s leader, Andriy Biletsky, is now a member of parliament as well.


Because the arms would go to the Ukrainian army, not the paramilitary battalions, but due to the fact that Azov has officials in important government positions, they could easily flow their way.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:55 am

Jinwoy wrote:Does no one else see recent history repeating itself?


So Ukraine is going to become the next caliphate?
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Postby Jinwoy » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:04 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Jinwoy wrote:Does no one else see recent history repeating itself?


So Ukraine is going to become the next caliphate?


No, not that recent.
1970's recent.

Your hint is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
Last edited by Jinwoy on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:07 am

Jinwoy wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
So Ukraine is going to become the next caliphate?


No, not that recent.
1970's recent.

Your hint is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"


Ah, so these will be the new Taliban?
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Jinwoy
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Postby Jinwoy » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:19 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Jinwoy wrote:
No, not that recent.
1970's recent.

Your hint is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"


Ah, so these will be the new Taliban?


Kinda but no.
I'm saying that with Lethal Aid to the Ukraine, the United States would be actively arming islamist extremists who are anti-Russian - a situation reminiscent of the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, where the US also armed islamist extremists who were anti-Russian... and oh my, how that backfired horribly!

The only differences are that this is not afghanistan, and that the US won't be arming Islamists directly, but rather through proxy by giving aid to the Ukraine, who then give it to the various battalions.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:29 am

Jinwoy wrote:I'm saying that with Lethal Aid to the Ukraine, the United States would be actively arming islamist extremists who are anti-Russian - a situation reminiscent of the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, where the US also armed islamist extremists who were anti-Russian... and oh my, how that backfired horribly!


And who are they going to attack? Russia has already got plenty of experience fighting Islamists. It's not like they'd get anywhere.
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Jinwoy
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Postby Jinwoy » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:39 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Jinwoy wrote:I'm saying that with Lethal Aid to the Ukraine, the United States would be actively arming islamist extremists who are anti-Russian - a situation reminiscent of the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, where the US also armed islamist extremists who were anti-Russian... and oh my, how that backfired horribly!


And who are they going to attack? Russia has already got plenty of experience fighting Islamists. It's not like they'd get anywhere.


They are probably going to join ISIS, or probably attack Russia with their technologically sophisticated weapons.
Or both.
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West Aurelia
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Postby West Aurelia » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:45 am

Jinwoy wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
And who are they going to attack? Russia has already got plenty of experience fighting Islamists. It's not like they'd get anywhere.


They are probably going to join ISIS, or probably attack Russia with their technologically sophisticated weapons.
Or both.


They're a mixed bag, with a common goal of fighting Russia. So you have some who are simply pro-Ukraine, some who are simply anti-Russia, and then you've got Chechens and IS/al Qaeda supporters...
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Lytenburgh
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Postby Lytenburgh » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:52 am

As for this two articles:



a lot of interesting is hiding in the plane sight:

In Midst of War, Ukraine Becomes Gateway for Jihad

Ukraine is now becoming an important stop-off point for the brothers, like Rizvan. In Ukraine, you can buy a passport and a new identity. For $15,000, a fighter receives a new name and a legal document attesting to Ukrainian citizenship. Ukraine doesn’t belong to the European Union, but it’s an easy pathway for immigration to the West. Ukrainians have few difficulties obtaining visas to neighboring Poland, where they can work on construction sites and in restaurants, filling the gap left by the millions of Poles who have left in search of work in the United Kingdom and Germany.

You can also do business in Ukraine that’s not quite legal. You can earn easy money for the brothers fighting in the Caucasus, Syria and Afghanistan. You can “legally” acquire unregistered weapons to fight the Russian-backed separatists, and then export them by bribing corrupt Ukrainian customs officers.

Our goal here is to get weapons, which will be sent to the Caucasus,” Rizvan, the brother who meets me first in Kiev, admits without hesitation.


After his release from prison in Azerbaijan, Rizvan became the eternal wanderer, a rebel — and one of the brothers now in Ukraine. He came because Munayev, now head of the Dudayev battalion, decided the brothers should fight in Ukraine. “I am here today because my brother, Isa, called us and said, ‘It’s time to repay your debt,’” Rizvan says. “There was a time when the brothers from Ukraine came [to Chechnya] and fought against the common enemy, the aggressor, the occupier.


Isa Munayev’s War

IN SEPTEMBER OF 2014, I found myself standing on a narrow, potholed street in Kiev, east of the Dnieper River, in an area known as the Left Bank. I didn’t even know, at that point, whom I was meeting. I knew only that Khalid, my contact in Turkey with the Islamic State, had told me his “brothers” were in Ukraine, and I could trust them...

...Even before he arrived in Ukraine, Munayev was well-known. He fought against Russian forces in both Chechen wars; in the second, he was the commander of the war in Grozny. After the Chechen capital was captured by Russian forces between 1999 and 2000, Munayev and his men took refuge in the mountains. He fought from there until 2005, when he was seriously injured and went to Europe for treatment. Munayev lived in Denmark until 2014. Then war broke out in Ukraine, and he decided it was time to fight the Russians again.

...He was not at the front in the fall of 2014, because he was busy training forces and organizing money and weapons, from Kiev. An older man in a leather jacket introduced me to Munayev. “Our good brother Khalid recommended this man,” the man said. (Khalid is today one of the most important leaders of the Islamic State. Khalid and Munayev knew each other from years spent fighting together in Chechnya.)


... An armored van, similar to one designed to carry cash to the bank, pulled up next to us. Ihor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian oligarch from Dnipropetrovsk, had given the car to Munayev’s fighters. From there we drove together to the base.

...Munayev also admitted, however, that he hoped the weapons he got in Ukraine would end up in the hands of militants in the Caucasus. He had a clear goal. “I defend Ukraine and Chechnya,” he told me. “If we succeed in Ukraine, then we can succeed in Chechnya.”

...At the time I visited, most of the fighters were at the front in the vicinity of Luhansk. But the exact number serving in the battalion is a mystery. According to one source, there are 500 volunteers. Assuming that number is correct, it’s a significant force, which is why it’s increasingly feared in Kiev. The battalion is not subject to any political leader in Kiev, or subordinate to any political structure there.

The Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky helped create the first volunteer battalions — the Dnipro and Dnipro-1 — each with about 500 people. For several months, he also financially supported several other battalions, including Azov, Aidar, Donbass, and Right Sector battalion. In the end, Kolomoisky also invited the Chechens, hoping they would protect his businesses and factories, if needed.

Since the 1990s, Kolomoisky has been one of the most powerful men in Ukraine. His influence extends across almost the entire Ukrainian economy. Among other companies, he controls PrivatBank, the country’s largest bank, and exercises significant authority over Ukrnafta, its largest oil and gas producer. His influence extends over the media through several television stations, including the popular channel 1+1. The oligarch also owns the football club Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.

Most of Kolomoisky’s assets, however, focus on Privat Group, which The Wall Street Journal described as “an informal nebula of companies controlled by Mr. Kolomoisky and his partners.” In 2008, Forbes estimated that Kolomoisky’s fortune was $4.2 billion.

...When the Russians stopped approximately 120 miles short of Dnipropetrovsk, Kolomoisky suddenly lost interest and stopped paying the volunteer battalions. The Right Sector battalion responded by seizing his property, but Munayev couldn’t do that. He was a foreigner, and feared the Ukrainian authorities would regard his battalion as an illegal armed group, then disband it. Munayev was bitter, but would not openly speak ill of the authorities in Kiev. The Ukrainian people were still helping his fighters.


From time to time, Munayev met with representatives of the Ukrainian Security Service, known as the SBU. The Ukrainian government and President Petro Poroshenko fear that Chechens — along with other branches of voluntary battalions dissatisfied with the developments in Ukraine — could one day threaten the government in Kiev.

That concern isn’t totally without merit. “It doesn’t matter whether the Ukrainian authorities help us or not,” a commander from the Tatar battalion told me. “Now we have weapons and we will never given them up.”

That commander recently arrived in Ukraine from Syria. He wants to fight to free Crimea, which he does not believe Ukraine will ever recover through negotiations. “It can be done only by force, with weapons in hand,” he said.


Remember people! The new Ukrainian regime - are good guys here!
Last edited by Lytenburgh on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bratislavskaya
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Postby Bratislavskaya » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:26 am

People protesting in Kiev, against inflation etc attacked by Police.
Notice how the Police threaten to shoot people, and they use a disproportionate amount of force.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:44 am

Lytenburgh wrote:(Image)

Texas volunteer Russell Bonner Bentley with Brazilian volunteer Mikel Oibar fighting for Novorossiya.

Meanwhile, the wolrd press got the undeniable evidence, that the USSR is sending vilunteers to Donbass:




*looks at patch* Didn't know that the Russians were communist still.
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