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Is monarchy a good form of government?

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Is monarchy a good form of government?

Yes
268
51%
No
262
49%
 
Total votes : 530

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:08 pm

Greater Weselton wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
Ha. No. I see no reason that a dictatorship + idiotic traditionalism is a good form of government.

Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


...

Google wrote:mon·arch
ˈmänərk,ˈmänˌärk/Submit
noun
1.
a sovereign head of state, especially a king, queen, or emperor.


Google wrote:king
kiNG/Submit
noun
1.
the male ruler of an independent state, especially one who inherits the position by right of birth.


And "Queen" is just the female variant of a king. By this definition, I will conclude that any legitimate monarchy where the Crown has actual power is inherently authoritarian. Right of Birth is an authoritarian justification for rule.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:09 pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:No. Its possible for a monarchy to be a stable government and its possible for a constitutional monarchy to be pretty free, but at the end of the day, monarchy (at least traditional monarchy) puts some people above others simply because of what family they were born into. Its inherently undemocratic and inherently unjust.
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Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
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Agiptiota
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Founded: Aug 13, 2014
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Postby Agiptiota » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:12 pm

Andzhalswoodosia wrote:Very unlikely, even people in the UK and Saudi Arabia are wanting a change of leadership.


Yeah we want to get rid of the Con/Dem coalition. We don't necessarily want the monarch deposed.

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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:15 pm

Andzhalswoodosia wrote:Very unlikely, even people in the UK and Saudi Arabia are wanting a change of leadership.


In the UK, support for the monarchy is at an all-time high.

The one benefit I can see of a constitutional monarchy is that it provides an apolitical head of state that represents the majority and can provide unbiased constitutional checks on the Government. However, I wouldn't really see a point of converting a country from a republic to constitutional monarchy. But I also don't see a point of converting a constitutional monarchy to a republic with a President. I'm neutral.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Greater-London
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Postby Greater-London » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:15 pm

It depends on the form of Monarchy. Modern constitutional monarchies like the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands are "good" governments; I'm not a fan of monarchy per se but if your going to have parliamentary democracy (and you already have a monarch) then theirs not much use changing them in for a drab non executive president.
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Zottistan
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Postby Zottistan » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:16 pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:No. Its possible for a monarchy to be a stable government and its possible for a constitutional monarchy to be pretty free, but at the end of the day, monarchy (at least traditional monarchy) puts some people above others simply because of what family they were born into. Its inherently undemocratic and inherently unjust.

Democracy is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
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Greater Weselton
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Postby Greater Weselton » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:16 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Greater Weselton wrote:Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


...

Google wrote:mon·arch
ˈmänərk,ˈmänˌärk/Submit
noun
1.
a sovereign head of state, especially a king, queen, or emperor.


Google wrote:king
kiNG/Submit
noun
1.
the male ruler of an independent state, especially one who inherits the position by right of birth.


And "Queen" is just the female variant of a king. By this definition, I will conclude that any legitimate monarchy where the Crown has actual power is inherently authoritarian. Right of Birth is an authoritarian justification for rule.

Monarchs can be benevolent with their authority.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:16 pm

Greater Weselton wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
Ha. No. I see no reason that a dictatorship + idiotic traditionalism is a good form of government.

Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


Dictators aren't always authoritarian.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Greater Weselton wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
...





And "Queen" is just the female variant of a king. By this definition, I will conclude that any legitimate monarchy where the Crown has actual power is inherently authoritarian. Right of Birth is an authoritarian justification for rule.

Monarchs can be benevolent with their authority.


Dictators can be benevolent with their authority.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Greater Weselton wrote:Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


...

Google wrote:mon·arch
ˈmänərk,ˈmänˌärk/Submit
noun
1.
a sovereign head of state, especially a king, queen, or emperor.



"Sovereign head of state" doesn't mean authoritarian.
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Greater Weselton
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Postby Greater Weselton » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
Greater Weselton wrote:Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


Dictators aren't always authoritarian.

They always are authoritarian.
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Margno
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Founded: Sep 18, 2013
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Postby Margno » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Greater Weselton wrote:Monarchs aren't always authoritarian.


...

Google wrote:mon·arch
ˈmänərk,ˈmänˌärk/Submit
noun
1.
a sovereign head of state, especially a king, queen, or emperor.


Google wrote:king
kiNG/Submit
noun
1.
the male ruler of an independent state, especially one who inherits the position by right of birth.


And "Queen" is just the female variant of a king. By this definition, I will conclude that any legitimate monarchy where the Crown has actual power is inherently authoritarian. Right of Birth is an authoritarian justification for rule.

You're using authoritarian wrong. It means the state being powerful and exerting heavy restriction over the personal lives of the people.
"favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

A monarchy could be either libertarian or authoritarian depending upon which laws the monarch saw fit to pass. Besides which, you could have a weak monarch (like a king in a feudalist society) or a strong monarch.

What monarchism is is inherently undemocratic.
Last edited by Margno on Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:18 pm

Greater Weselton wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
Dictators aren't always authoritarian.

They always are authoritarian.


False. They are not inherently authoritarian.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Greater-London
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Postby Greater-London » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:20 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
If that culture is one of tyranny, it should not be continued. Monarchy should be dissolved everywhere.
.


Except monarchy does not equate to tyranny. Plenty of world leaders throughout our history have been tyrannical and plenty of our monarchs have not. Contemporary constitutional monarchs do not represent a culture of tyranny but the histories and culture of the places that they "rule"; if those places have a history of tyranny then abolishing the monarchy does nothing to resolve that.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:21 pm

No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.


No, ceremonial monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.


No, ceremonial monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.

That's the same thing.
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The Fascist American Empire
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Postby The Fascist American Empire » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm

Natapoc wrote:Those who are voting "yes" to monarchy being a good form of government: You realize, that YOU would not be the monarch right?

Why would you want to be in a situation where you have even less of a say than you do now? Do you really want some person you have never met to have ultimate authority over every aspect of your life?


Isn't that government in general?

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Postby Greater-London » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.


How are they absurd? also the term "unnecessary" needs expansion, how are they any less "necessary" than non executive presidents in parliamentary models of governing.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:23 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
No, ceremonial monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.

That's the same thing.


Constitutional Monarchies are Absolute Monarchies with some constitutional restraints and limits.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Deusaeuri
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Postby Deusaeuri » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:23 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
No, ceremonial monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.

That's the same thing.

Not all constitutional monarchies are ceremonial.

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Margno
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Postby Margno » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:24 pm

Natapoc wrote:Those who are voting "yes" to monarchy being a good form of government: You realize, that YOU would not be the monarch right?

Why would you want to be in a situation where you have even less of a say than you do now? Do you really want some person you have never met to have ultimate authority over every aspect of your life?

I currently have no say. No American election has ever turned on one vote, not once, in history. My political power is exactly zero.
Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.
We have nothing to lose but the world. We have our souls to gain.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:25 pm

Greater-London wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.


How are they absurd? also the term "unnecessary" needs expansion, how are they any less "necessary" than non executive presidents in parliamentary models of governing.

Because they serve no purpose. Anything that serves no practical purpose should be gotten rid of.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:25 pm

Margno wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Those who are voting "yes" to monarchy being a good form of government: You realize, that YOU would not be the monarch right?

Why would you want to be in a situation where you have even less of a say than you do now? Do you really want some person you have never met to have ultimate authority over every aspect of your life?

I currently have no say. No American election has ever turned on one vote, not once, in history. My political power is exactly zero.


Well, that's false. You can try to be a representative that gets elected, and since you vote, you do have political power, regardless of how little it is.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Greater Weselton
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Postby Greater Weselton » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:25 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:No; absolute monarchies are stupid, and constitutional monarchies are unnecessary and absurd.

It is better than be ruled by Stalin.
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