Is monarchy a good form of government?

[Old Tyrannia]

Democracy's even older... By that logic, we must all follow North Korean Communism or Mussolini's fascism because they're newer ideologies.

Except the argument put forward for democracy is rarely "well its exactly how (and who) it was in 1450 and it worked well then".

And tell me who exactly in this thread has put forward that argument for monarchy?

[The UK in Exile]

Except the argument put forward for democracy is rarely "well its exactly how (and who) it was in 1450 and it worked well then".

And tell me who exactly in this thread has put forward that argument for monarchy?

You probably, but I ain't digging back through 33 pages of this shit to find out. you probably dressed it up with the words "continuity", "stability", "heritage" or "tradition".

[Old Tyrannia]

And tell me who exactly in this thread has put forward that argument for monarchy?

You probably, but I ain't digging back through 33 pages of this shit to find out. you probably dressed it up with the words "continuity", "stability", "heritage" or "tradition".

You mean the same way that you dress up your envy with words like "equality", "fairness" and "progress?"

[The UK in Exile]

You probably, but I ain't digging back through 33 pages of this shit to find out. you probably dressed it up with the words "continuity", "stability", "heritage" or "tradition".

You mean the same way that you dress up your envy with words like "equality", "fairness" and "progress?"

I'm happy to admit to a healthy degree of envy. After all, Monarchs have a lot of nice shit I don't.

[Old Tyrannia]

You mean the same way that you dress up your envy with words like "equality", "fairness" and "progress?"

I'm happy to admit to a healthy degree of envy. After all, Monarchs have a lot of nice shit I don't.

Well, it would appear that we have uncovered the basic difference between monarchists and republicans.

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy, and republicans believe that envy is healthy. It all makes perfect sense.

[The UK in Exile]

I'm happy to admit to a healthy degree of envy. After all, Monarchs have a lot of nice shit I don't.

Well, it would appear that we have uncovered the basic difference between monarchists and republicans.

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy, and republicans believe that envy is healthy. It all makes perfect sense.

is that a royal we?

[Immoren]

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy...

Automatic loyalty or earned loyalty?

[The UK in Exile]

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy...

Automatic loyalty or earned loyalty?

Auto-erotic in this case....

[Immoren]

Automatic loyalty or earned loyalty?

Auto-erotic in this case....

Le-lewd! *blushes*

[Republika Srpska Party]

Hell no.

[Socialist Czechia]

Hell no.

I assume you're from Serbia. Why you don't want some Karađorđević dude to be your king again?



(because some monarchists there still doesn't understand why people not love these ideas. but I guess every republican is just filthy uneducated peasant for them even dozen more revolutions and executions of king wouldn't help them to understand why 'their' people not adore aristocratic 'rights' )

[Old Tyrannia]

Hell no.

I have to admit, when someone who openly supports terrorism and mass murder comes out on the opposite side of the argument, it always makes me feel better about the side I'm on.

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy...

Automatic loyalty or earned loyalty?

Loyalty is, at the end of the day, loyalty. Government, no matter how it is selected, rests on the reasoning that the population will automatically be loyal to the State, even if not to the person in power at the time. This is the same in democracy as it is in monarchy.

[Conserative Morality]

Well, it would appear that we have uncovered the basic difference between monarchists and republicans.

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy, and republicans believe that envy is healthy. It all makes perfect sense.

A generalization. As a loyal, unenvious republican, I must disagree. The most ardent republicans of ages past were very spartan men - the root of republicanism is anger, not envy. Republican sentiment does not arise when monarchs are rich - it's always strongest when the people are suffering.

[The UK in Exile]

Hell no.

I have to admit, when someone who openly supports terrorism and mass murder comes out on the opposite side of the argument, it always makes me feel better about the side I'm on.

Automatic loyalty or earned loyalty?

Loyalty is, at the end of the day, loyalty. Government, no matter how it is selected, rests on the reasoning that the population will automatically be loyal to the State, even if not to the person in power at the time. This is the same in democracy as it is in monarchy.

well its not is it? you give power to the people to remove goverment and the government has to earn the loyalty of those it serves.

[Celritannia]

Well, it would appear that we have uncovered the basic difference between monarchists and republicans.

Monarchists believe that loyalty is healthy, and republicans believe that envy is healthy. It all makes perfect sense.

A generalization. As a loyal, unenvious republican, I must disagree. The most ardent republicans of ages past were very spartan men - the root of republicanism is anger, not envy. Republican sentiment does not arise when monarchs are rich - it's always strongest when the people are suffering.

I have to agree with this.

However, I also disagree.
Simply because in a republican states, people still suffer, and with most, not many politicians do not do anything about it.

But as I keep saying, I am neither a Republican or a Monarchist.

[Old Tyrannia]

I have to admit, when someone who openly supports terrorism and mass murder comes out on the opposite side of the argument, it always makes me feel better about the side I'm on.

Loyalty is, at the end of the day, loyalty. Government, no matter how it is selected, rests on the reasoning that the population will automatically be loyal to the State, even if not to the person in power at the time. This is the same in democracy as it is in monarchy.

well its not is it? you give power to the people to remove goverment and the government has to earn the loyalty of those it serves.

I didn't vote for Cameron. I'm still expected to obey the Government. If I were to refuse to pay my taxes, it wouldn't matter if I claimed I didn't have to because the Coalition Government hasn't "earned my loyalty." If a tea partier refused to pay their taxes, it wouldn't matter if they claimed that Obama hadn't "earned their loyalty." Loyalty to the State is considered automatic whether the Head of State inherited their position or was chosen because 51% of the population decided they were better than the other candidate.

[The UK in Exile]

well its not is it? you give power to the people to remove goverment and the government has to earn the loyalty of those it serves.

I didn't vote for Cameron. I'm still expected to obey the Government. If I were to refuse to pay my taxes, it wouldn't matter if I claimed I didn't have to because the Coalition Government hasn't "earned my loyalty." If a tea partier refused to pay their taxes, it wouldn't matter if they claimed that Obama hadn't "earned their loyalty." Loyalty to the State is considered automatic whether the Head of State inherited their position or was chosen because 51% of the population decided they were better than the other candidate.

paying taxes isn't loyalty. its about the minimum standard for not being actively treacherous.

[Old Tyrannia]

I didn't vote for Cameron. I'm still expected to obey the Government. If I were to refuse to pay my taxes, it wouldn't matter if I claimed I didn't have to because the Coalition Government hasn't "earned my loyalty." If a tea partier refused to pay their taxes, it wouldn't matter if they claimed that Obama hadn't "earned their loyalty." Loyalty to the State is considered automatic whether the Head of State inherited their position or was chosen because 51% of the population decided they were better than the other candidate.

paying taxes isn't loyalty. its about the minimum standard for not being actively treacherous.

But not being actively treacherous is sort of the definition of loyalty. Unless you're being inactively treacherous, I suppose, though I'm unsure how you'd manage that.

[Conserative Morality]

I have to agree with this.

However, I also disagree.
Simply because in a republican states, people still suffer, and with most, not many politicians do not do anything about it.

But as I keep saying, I am neither a Republican or a Monarchist.

I didn't say republican states resolve suffering. I said that republican sentiment is strongest when people suffer. The continuation of suffering under republics doesn't sap republican sentiment.

[The UK in Exile]

paying taxes isn't loyalty. its about the minimum standard for not being actively treacherous.

But not being actively treacherous is sort of the definition of loyalty. Unless you're being inactively treacherous, I suppose, though I'm unsure how you'd manage that.

loyalty - a strong feeling of support or allegiance.

hmmm. nope.

[Celritannia]

But not being actively treacherous is sort of the definition of loyalty. Unless you're being inactively treacherous, I suppose, though I'm unsure how you'd manage that.

loyalty - a strong feeling of support or allegiance.

hmmm. nope.

Yeah, I am not loyal to the current Government. In fact, I don't think I can be loyal to any government XD.

[Old Tyrannia]

I have to agree with this.

However, I also disagree.
Simply because in a republican states, people still suffer, and with most, not many politicians do not do anything about it.

But as I keep saying, I am neither a Republican or a Monarchist.

I didn't say republican states resolve suffering. I said that republican sentiment is strongest when people suffer. The continuation of suffering under republics doesn't sap republican sentiment.

Revolutionary sentiment is strongest when people suffer. When people suffer, they want change. That's not rocket science. They also have a tendency to look for scapegoats, which might be the King or might be the Jews, depending on who is most convenient to blame at the time.

[The UK in Exile]

loyalty - a strong feeling of support or allegiance.

hmmm. nope.

Yeah, I am not loyal to the current Government. In fact, I don't think I can be loyal to any government XD.

fair enough, indifference isn't treachery.

[Celritannia]

Yeah, I am not loyal to the current Government. In fact, I don't think I can be loyal to any government XD.

fair enough, indifference isn't treachery.

I just don't agree with the concept of the nation-state any more.

[Old Tyrannia]

fair enough, indifference isn't treachery.

I just don't agree with the concept of the nation-state any more.

If so, what alternative method of social organisation would you propose?