Protestantism might just be Christianity

[Entmonton]

This infighting and holier-than-thou attitudes people show to others in Christianity is why I left the church. That and Paganism just fit better, considering that a lot of traditions borrowed from it.

[The Scientific States]

All of which make decent points, but they're untrue. It seems that Distruzio's argument boils down to "They reject the pope and many other inherently Christian traditions." However, just because one rejects several traditions, that doesn't make them not Christian. One doesn't have to follow every doctrine to be a Christian, so why does a Church have to do?

Perhaps it is his point that by rejecting tradition that makes them un-Christian.

I'm aware of that, but it's a point that can be easily debunked. It's rather silly to say that if you don't follow every tradition, you're not a member of a certain religion.

[Distruzio]

This infighting and holier-than-thou attitudes people show to others in Christianity is why I left the church. That and Paganism just fit better, considering that a lot of traditions borrowed from it.

You would do well to read the OP entirely... because I don't make the argument you attribute to me.

[Menassa]

Perhaps it is his point that by rejecting tradition that makes them un-Christian.

I'm aware of that, but it's a point that can be easily debunked. It's rather silly to say that if you don't follow every tradition, you're not a member of a certain religion.

Silly?
Explain.

[Distruzio]

I fail to see how Protestantism isn't a branch of Christianity. The church "accepts" Christ, which by definition, is essentially the qualification for being considered a Christian church.

I really detest it when people try to say that their denomination is the true denomination, and all other beliefs are false. That really pisses me off.

Seeing as how I don't say that, I wonder why you spewed such vitriol here?

[Distruzio]

I fail to see how Protestantism isn't a branch of Christianity. The church "accepts" Christ, which by definition, is essentially the qualification for being considered a Christian church.

What is unclear about my argument to you?

[Distruzio]

Perhaps it is his point that by rejecting tradition that makes them un-Christian.

I'm aware of that, but it's a point that can be easily debunked. It's rather silly to say that if you don't follow every tradition, you're not a member of a certain religion.

How so? In the OP, I make it quite clear that I'm hoping someone can dispute my assertions and convince me otherwise because I fear for my own salvation due to my bigotry.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I really detest it when people try to say that their denomination is the true denomination, and all other beliefs are false. That really pisses me off.

Seeing as how I don't say that, I wonder why you spewed such vitriol here?

You are saying that Protestantism doesn't even qualify as Christianity, when it so obviously does, as it declares its faith in Jesus, and that at the very least he is the Christ. You may say, for example, that they are bad Christians, their tenents are all opposed to what you believe to be true Christianity, but there is a difference between that and denying them a part of Christiandom.

[The Scientific States]

I fail to see how Protestantism isn't a branch of Christianity. The church "accepts" Christ, which by definition, is essentially the qualification for being considered a Christian church.

What is unclear about my argument to you?

The fact that you think a Church has to follow every single tradition, doctrine, and rule to be considered Christian. Yes, when Christianity was "founded", it was founded with Popes, Saints, and other various traditions, but my question to you is why must a Church follow and support every single one of those things? It seems overly dogmatic.

[Lalaki]

This infighting and holier-than-thou attitudes people show to others in Christianity is why I left the church. That and Paganism just fit better, considering that a lot of traditions borrowed from it.

I understand that a lot of people can act holier-than-thou, and it was your right to leave for another religion.

But do know that not all Christians are like that. Many of us do not judge and accept others.

[Lavan Tiri]

What is unclear about my argument to you?

The fact that you think a Church has to follow every single tradition, doctrine, and rule to be considered Christian. Yes, when Christianity was "founded", it was founded with Popes, Saints, and other various traditions, but my question to you is why must a Church follow and support every single one of those things? It seems overly dogmatic.

It wasn't founded with Popes, Saints, or Talos(jk).

Christianity was founded by the Christ, Jesus. There was no higher authority on the faith than Him, because God is the Author of our faith, and the Messiah( Jesus ) is God. The Pope was a human invention, because(I'm guessing here.)some people wanted to have a link with the LORD on Earth, but no man is infallible, like I've heard Catholics claim the Pope is. Therefore, the Pope is not supported by the Bible, because all believers are equal before God, with none receiving special treatment.

The Saints are not false gods, in theory, but in practice? Sometimes it seems that way. There is no need for any intermediary between God and Man besides the Christ, since God hears all prayers, no matter who says them or how many people say them. And He answers all of them. But sometimes the answer is no, but I digress. We're supposed to approach God with reverence in our heart, and remember that His will be done, so the whole two-second prayer thing is invalid. And as for the intensity, I can sob my heart out to Him because I want an Xbox 1, but that doesn't change the fact that, unless He wants to grant it, I won't get the thing. So, no matter if it's St. Michael the Archangel or Bob the Mechanic asking, unless it's Gods will, it won't happen.


#ramblingon.

[The Union of the West]

I'm aware of that, but it's a point that can be easily debunked. It's rather silly to say that if you don't follow every tradition, you're not a member of a certain religion.

How so? In the OP, I make it quite clear that I'm hoping someone can dispute my assertions and convince me otherwise because I fear for my own salvation due to my bigotry.

I wouldn't really call that bigotry. It's really just a emphasis on ideological purity. But I fail to see what it has to do with your salvation. Could you explain this to me? (preferably via TG, as to not derail the discussion).

[The Orson Empire]

I really detest it when people try to say that their denomination is the true denomination, and all other beliefs are false. That really pisses me off.

Seeing as how I don't say that, I wonder why you spewed such vitriol here?

You have stated that protestantism is not Christianity. It's the fucking title of your thread, for pete's sake. It pisses me off when people try to claim that their denomination is the true denomination.

[Lavan Tiri]

Seeing as how I don't say that, I wonder why you spewed such vitriol here?

You have stated that protestantism is not Christianity. It's the fucking title of your thread, for pete's sake. It pisses me off when people try to claim that their denomination is the true denomination.

Or when they claim that another isn't the true one.

[The Orson Empire]

You have stated that protestantism is not Christianity. It's the fucking title of your thread, for pete's sake. It pisses me off when people try to claim that their denomination is the true denomination.

Or when they claim that another isn't the true one.

Exactly. It's fucking stupid.

[Constantinopolis]

Seeing as how I don't say that, I wonder why you spewed such vitriol here?

You have stated that protestantism is not Christianity. It's the fucking title of your thread, for pete's sake. It pisses me off when people try to claim that their denomination is the true denomination.

But that's not what he is claiming (not in this thread, I mean).

He is claiming that the definition of "Christianity" should be restricted to the ancient Churches with apostolic succession, and that Protestantism is a different religion which arose from Christianity, just like Christianity arose from Judaism (or Buddhism arose from Hinduism, etc). Whether any particular denomination is true is not the issue. The definition of "Christianity" is the issue.

(and in case you're wondering, I disagree with Distruzio on this - I think his definition of "Christianity" is far too narrow)

[Menassa]

You have stated that protestantism is not Christianity. It's the fucking title of your thread, for pete's sake. It pisses me off when people try to claim that their denomination is the true denomination.

But that's not what he is claiming (not in this thread, I mean).

He is claiming that the definition of "Christianity" should be restricted to the ancient Churches with apostolic succession, and that Protestantism is a different religion which arose from Christianity, just like Christianity arose from Judaism (or Buddhism arose from Hinduism, etc). Whether any particular denomination is true is not the issue. The definition of "Christianity" is the issue.

(and in case you're wondering, I disagree with Distruzio on this - I think his definition of "Christianity" is far too narrow)

They do seem like two separate religions....

[GraySoap]

No, Protestants are a purification of Christianity. Wahabis are still Muslim. Lutherans, and their kin, are still Christian by the same virtue. Both have a focus on adherence to scripture over tradition.

[Menassa]

No, Protestants are a purification of Christianity. Wahabis are still Muslim. Lutherans, and their kin, are still Christian by the same virtue. Both have a focus on adherence to scripture over tradition.

Damn Saducees.

[Mostrov]

‎

[Chelta]

^

The way I see it, Distruzio is conflating Christianity as a religion with the visible, apostolic Church. What do Protestants and "Christians" (i.e. Romans, Orthodox, Anglicans, Orientals, etc.) have in common which leads Muslims and Jews, for example, as well as ourselves (mostly), to call us one and all Christians? Perhaps it is acceptance of Christ as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God, or something along those lines.

[Tmutarakhan]

None.

He was scathing about "tradition".

Half of all four gospels?
I highly doubt that.

And now a reading from the 23rd chapter of the Gospel of Matthew.

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. (That is they have the authority of Moses, how do we know this interpretation is true? Look on.) So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Jesus states you must listen to what the Pharisees, those who uphold the tradition.
He does say to not do as they do for they are hypocrite, he attacks the practice and the not belief of those that believed in the Oral Law.

15:1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

[Tekania]

TO deal with the OP's real core issue... that is bigotry, I think it's really not a theological answer. And answering it based on doctrine isn't going to reach pass any barriers. There are indeed key doctrinal differences found among the Orthodox and the churches stemming from the mess of the West. The simple fact there will be no answer relating to the differnces expressed in attitudes of tradition on the side of the protestant, nor on the side of the Orthodox.... each is taken on as a priori within the context of doctrinal outlooks, and as such that element in particular just leaves the discussion at an impasse. That in itself just cannot satisfy an answer to the the OP's core personal issue and internal concern with themself. And it really needs not be said that condemnation of the OP does not help either.

I will just start off my answer with a statement that may come as a shock..... no... Protestantism is not Christianity. Not from my perspective. Neither really is Catholicism, nor is Orthodoxism. No self-application of an -ism really makes you Christian. That is ascribing yourself to a particular community does not make you Christian. And ultimately no person should be judged based upon who their neighbors happen to be. The general concept of eccumenicalism is not necessarily about making us all absolutely identical... but concentrating on what is parituclar to unify us. It is actually humorous that you kind of look on Rome and the Anglicans with some sort of valid Chritian point while dismissive of "Protestants" when really some protestant groups are far closer to you in doctrine than even the Catholic Church is. Pure concentration of apostolic sucession, when in fact churches do have valid historical claims to apostolic sucession that the Orthodox would classify as apostate is pretty funny. Apostolic succession itself does not define a particular individual as Christian.

As such, the best I can do for the OP is admonish them-self NOT to judge someone by whose membership roles they may be on, but on who they are personally.

[Menassa]

15:1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

And yet he says to do all the things that the keepers of the Law say.
Fascinating.

Matthew 12


At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

Through tradition we know not to pick grain, not the Bible.... why was that not Jesus's answer?

We could throw scripture at each other all our lives.

[Aenea]

SOLA SCRIPTURA!!!!