Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS)

[Napkiraly]

The fact that ISIS is gaining strength and made of stupid-crazy motherfuckers who've already warred with, what, at least four immediately nearby powers and provoked dozens more to take action against them?

ISIS is like a dog with rabies. Don't expect them to act rationally; they've already proved that their overconfident aggression has no boundaries.

They've not faced anything serious except a completely dysfunctional organization that is called Iraqi army and a bunch of PKK/YPG militias. They just made use of the glitch in the region.

I think you are forgetting Syria.

[Conserative Morality]

They've not faced anything serious except a completely dysfunctional organization that is called Iraqi army and a bunch of PKK/YPG militias. They just made use of the glitch in the region.

Not just the PKK; the Peshmerga in Iraq are a relatively skilled and well-equipped force. They're struggling, if putting up a good fight.

Don't underestimate bloodied fanatics. Even if they were in rags and had nothing but ratty old AKs, men like that are dangerous.

[Benuty]

I can't wait for the West to wake up and boot Turkey's ass from NATO. That genocidal, backwards country should never have been there in the first place.

We didn't participate in the Korean War for nothing. You might as well go fuck yourself.

[Gezi Park]

They've not faced anything serious except a completely dysfunctional organization that is called Iraqi army and a bunch of PKK/YPG militias. They just made use of the glitch in the region.

I think you are forgetting Syria.

Syrian army is indeed not bad but the country has been in a mess for a while. They don't even have the control over 2/3 of the country. Turkey is a completely different case and the only type of threat that ISIS can constitute for us is occasional terror attacks which also applies to other Western countries such as the US, Britain etc.

[Gezi Park]

They've not faced anything serious except a completely dysfunctional organization that is called Iraqi army and a bunch of PKK/YPG militias. They just made use of the glitch in the region.

Not just the PKK; the Peshmerga in Iraq are a relatively skilled and well-equipped force. They're struggling, if putting up a good fight.

Don't underestimate bloodied fanatics. Even if they were in rags and had nothing but ratty old AKs, men like that are dangerous.

They'll get crushed by dozens of tanks situated at the borderline the moment they attempt to cross over the Turkish border on their Toyota pick-ups.

[Conserative Morality]

Syrian army is indeed not bad but the country has been in a mess for a while. They don't even have the control over 2/3 of the country. Turkey is a completely different case and the only type of threat that ISIS can constitute for us is occasional terror attacks which also applies to other Western countries such as the US, Britain etc.

Proximity is a big factor, don't forget. Intelligence services can catch men who have to jump through a dozen hoops to cross a dozen borders with a dozen security checks easier than a fellow who only has to cross one very broad border.

Thus, why the US can't catch drug runners coming through our southern border. Terrorists, I feel, would be somewhat worse.

[Insaeldor]

The fact that ISIS is gaining strength and made of stupid-crazy motherfuckers who've already warred with, what, at least four immediately nearby powers and provoked dozens more to take action against them?

ISIS is like a dog with rabies. Don't expect them to act rationally; they've already proved that their overconfident aggression has no boundaries.

They've not faced anything serious except a completely dysfunctional organization that is called Iraqi army and a bunch of PKK/YPG militias. They just made use of the glitch in the region.

They put up a damn good fight against the Multi-national forces in Iraq when they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq. To say ISIS won't attack Turkey is Naïve wether or not they will be successful is another question but with Turkey just standing by letting ISIS gain straight in Syria and Iraq they risk eventually giving ISIS the ability to work out and prepare for attacks against Turkey and will most likely deal with loan wolves before you get any ISIS attacks. In fact to think ISIS is not in Turkey is naïve and when you allow them to have a state to operate in safety than you give the a platform to stage attacks against the Turkish states.

[Conserative Morality]

They'll get crushed by dozens of tanks situated at the borderline the moment they attempt to cross over the Turkish border on their Toyota pick-ups.

Weaponry that ISIL has reportedly captured and employed include SA-7[368] and Stinger[369] surface-to-air missiles, M79 Osa, HJ-8[370] and AT-4 Spigot[368] anti-tank weapons, Type 59 field guns[370] and M198 howitzers,[371] Humvees, T-54/55, T-72, and M1 Abrams[372] main battle tanks,[370] M1117 armoured cars,[373] truck-mounted DShK guns,[368] ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft guns,[374][375] BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers[367] and at least one Scud missile.[376]

Even if they didn't have all that, the US learned the danger of IEDs and suicide bombers in our recent misadventures. I'm just saying, Turkey should be careful. This isn't something that should be brushed off lightly.

[Gezi Park]

Syrian army is indeed not bad but the country has been in a mess for a while. They don't even have the control over 2/3 of the country. Turkey is a completely different case and the only type of threat that ISIS can constitute for us is occasional terror attacks which also applies to other Western countries such as the US, Britain etc.

Proximity is a big factor, don't forget. Intelligence services can catch men who have to jump through a dozen hoops to cross a dozen borders with a dozen security checks easier than a fellow who only has to cross one very broad border.

Thus, why the US can't catch drug runners coming through our southern border. Terrorists, I feel, would be somewhat worse.

I agree, but still they could in no way do what they did in parts of Iraq and Syria here, I mean capturing some towns and such. Whoever suggests such a thing can happen must be utterly ignorant about Turkey.

[Conserative Morality]

I agree, but still they could in no way do what they did in parts of Iraq and Syria here, I mean capturing some towns and such. Whoever suggests such a thing can happen must be utterly ignorant about Turkey.

I don't think anyone's arguing that ISIS has any chance against Turkey.

I think the argument is more that ISIS is crazy enough to attack Turkey - and even an unsuccessful attack can have significant cost in human lives, military and civilian.

[Gezi Park]

They put up a damn good fight against the Multi-national forces in Iraq when they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.

In fact to think ISIS is not in Turkey is naïve

Is that so? where?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Not just the PKK; the Peshmerga in Iraq are a relatively skilled and well-equipped force. They're struggling, if putting up a good fight.

Don't underestimate bloodied fanatics. Even if they were in rags and had nothing but ratty old AKs, men like that are dangerous.

They'll get crushed by dozens of tanks situated at the borderline the moment they attempt to cross over the Turkish border on their Toyota pick-ups.

It's not the Toyota pickups I'd worry about in such a situation so much as the tanks, howitzers, field-guns, and RPG/rocket-launchers.

Though a head-on assault seems like it would be against the typical ISIS style of fighting as opposed to merely sneaking in and causing shit.

[Tuub]

They put up a damn good fight against the Multi-national forces in Iraq when they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.

In fact to think ISIS is not in Turkey is naïve

Is that so? where?

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20141014/NEWS08/310140032/Istanbul-rattled-by-signs-Islamic-State-support

Should be enough, but hey, what can you expect from a country that supports IS?

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/12102014

[Napkiraly]

They put up a damn good fight against the Multi-national forces in Iraq when they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.

And the US has the largest military and still was involved in bad scrap with them. As did the British military. Both of whom have plenty of experience and have better tech and training.

[Insaeldor]

They put up a damn good fight against the Multi-national forces in Iraq when they were Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.

In fact to think ISIS is not in Turkey is naïve

Is that so? where?

So you can't compare the Turkish army to the US, British, Australian, and other NATO armies? Okay that's cute.

Look at America, we've been infiltrated by ISIS sympathizes whom were not only just born here but have lived here all their lives. If America (which need I mind is half way around the fucking world) has ISIS sympathizer in our borders than what makes you think men operating as ether full fledged members, affiliates, or sympathizes wound not be in turkey? Good chance they are implanted in with Syria refugees in Turkey or quite possibly walking the streets of Izmir or Ankara as sympathizers to ISIS. Why do you think so many westerners make into Syria to fight for ISIS through Turkey? I doubt they just walk across the boarder and go "hi guys I wanna join!" They have to have contacts in Syria who are at some degree affiliated with ISIS.

[Napkiraly]

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.



Is that so? where?

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20141014/NEWS08/310140032/Istanbul-rattled-by-signs-Islamic-State-support

Should be enough, but hey, what can you expect from a country that supports IS?

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/12102014

Seems like ISIS is already a threat to Turkey doesn't it.

[Gezi Park]

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.



Is that so? where?

So you can't compare the Turkish army to the US, British, Australian, and other NATO armies? Okay that's cute.

Look at America, we've been infiltrated by ISIS sympathizes whom were not only just born here but have lived here all their lives. If America (which need I mind is half way around the fucking world) has ISIS sympathizer in our borders than what makes you think men operating as ether full fledged members, affiliates, or sympathizes wound not be in turkey? Good chance they are implanted in with Syria refugees in Turkey or quite possibly walking the streets of Izmir or Ankara as sympathizers to ISIS. Why do you think so many westerners make into Syria to fight for ISIS through Turkey? I doubt they just walk across the boarder and go "hi guys I wanna join!" They have to have contacts in Syria who are at some degree affiliated with ISIS.

No, I meant it cannot be compared to the shitty Iraqi army and such. Let's not also forget the Turkish army defeated the UK and Anzacs at Gallipoli. I don't mean it's a stronger army than the US or such but the Turkish army is at a different league from the Middle East. I mean it's like comparing Arsenal to a shitty Ukrainian second division team. So suggesting that ISIS could just cross over the Turkish border and capture some towns because it did good against Iraqi, Syrian armies as well as some Kurdish militias is more than silly.

I already stated that terror is a serious threat. Of course there might be individual ISIS sympathizers in Turkey, considering that even Japan has (and no, not Muslim immigrants). But ISIS contitutes as much military threat towards Turkish army as San Marino does Germany in soccer (that's even a generous example for ISIS).

[Napkiraly]

So you can't compare the Turkish army to the US, British, Australian, and other NATO armies? Okay that's cute.

Look at America, we've been infiltrated by ISIS sympathizes whom were not only just born here but have lived here all their lives. If America (which need I mind is half way around the fucking world) has ISIS sympathizer in our borders than what makes you think men operating as ether full fledged members, affiliates, or sympathizes wound not be in turkey? Good chance they are implanted in with Syria refugees in Turkey or quite possibly walking the streets of Izmir or Ankara as sympathizers to ISIS. Why do you think so many westerners make into Syria to fight for ISIS through Turkey? I doubt they just walk across the boarder and go "hi guys I wanna join!" They have to have contacts in Syria who are at some degree affiliated with ISIS.

No, I meant it cannot be compared to the shitty Iraqi army and such. Let's not also forget the Turkish army defeated the UK and Anzacs at Gallipoli. I don't mean it's a stronger army than the US or such but the Turkish army is at a different league from the Middle East. I mean it's like comparing Arsenal to a shitty Ukrainian second division team. So suggesting that ISIS could just cross over the Turkish border and capture some towns because it did good against Iraqi, Syrian armies as well as some Kurdish militias is more than silly.

I already stated that terror is a serious threat. Of course there might be individual ISIS sympathizers in Turkey, considering that even Japan has (and no, not Muslim immigrants). But ISIS contitutes as much military threat towards Turkish army as San Marino does Germany in soccer (that's even a generous example for ISIS).

Gallipoli was nearly a century ago. Also I'll point out that it was the Ottoman army, which was also defeated by the British in the Middle East. And if I recall correctly had a hard time dealing with technologically backwards Arab insurgents.

[Tule]

Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and has had a quite good amount of experience since its foundation. It cannot be compared to any of these forces.

And the US has the largest military and still was involved in bad scrap with them. As did the British military. Both of whom have plenty of experience and have better tech and training.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq was fighting an insurgency. Using Guerilla tactics means by definition that you have the disadvantage.
Guerilla conflicts typically rely on popular support as well. ISIS won't get that in Turkey, particularly since the border region with Syria and Iraq is largely populated by Kurds.

Turkey does not only have the second largest military force in NATO, but also one of the most effective force in terms of how much force each soldier can deliver.
They are not necessarily less trained than the US soldiers either, they certainly make up any deficit in skill with discipline and motivation. Ever read about the Turkish Brigade in Korea?

This is actually one of the reasons why I'm so frustrated by their Inaction. The Turkish army is probably the most potent military force in the region, second only to the IDF.

If they decided to attack ISIL right now, they would utterly destroy the organization as an effective fighting force. They would absolutely and utterly crush them in a display of force not seen since the Gulf War. They would slaughter the ISIL militants near Kobane like the pigs they are.

[Gezi Park]

No, I meant it cannot be compared to the shitty Iraqi army and such. Let's not also forget the Turkish army defeated the UK and Anzacs at Gallipoli. I don't mean it's a stronger army than the US or such but the Turkish army is at a different league from the Middle East. I mean it's like comparing Arsenal to a shitty Ukrainian second division team. So suggesting that ISIS could just cross over the Turkish border and capture some towns because it did good against Iraqi, Syrian armies as well as some Kurdish militias is more than silly.

I already stated that terror is a serious threat. Of course there might be individual ISIS sympathizers in Turkey, considering that even Japan has (and no, not Muslim immigrants). But ISIS contitutes as much military threat towards Turkish army as San Marino does Germany in soccer (that's even a generous example for ISIS).

Gallipoli was nearly a century ago. Also I'll point out that it was the Ottoman army, which was also defeated by the British in the Middle East. And if I recall correctly had a hard time dealing with technologically backwards Arab insurgents.

It's kinda pretty hard to defend a land whose residents are rebelling against you. It's good that we got defeated there, wouldn't like to possess so much shitty lands in that hellhole.

[Gezi Park]

This is actually one of the reasons why I'm so frustrated by their Inaction. The Turkish army is probably the most potent military force in the region, second only to the IDF.

If they decided to attack ISIL right now, they would utterly destroy the organization as an effective fighting force. They would absolutely and utterly crush them in a display of force not seen since the Gulf War. They would slaughter the ISIL militants near Kobane like the pigs they are.

Turkey shouldn't get involved in that hellhole. We have our own internal problems.

[Insaeldor]

So you can't compare the Turkish army to the US, British, Australian, and other NATO armies? Okay that's cute.

Look at America, we've been infiltrated by ISIS sympathizes whom were not only just born here but have lived here all their lives. If America (which need I mind is half way around the fucking world) has ISIS sympathizer in our borders than what makes you think men operating as ether full fledged members, affiliates, or sympathizes wound not be in turkey? Good chance they are implanted in with Syria refugees in Turkey or quite possibly walking the streets of Izmir or Ankara as sympathizers to ISIS. Why do you think so many westerners make into Syria to fight for ISIS through Turkey? I doubt they just walk across the boarder and go "hi guys I wanna join!" They have to have contacts in Syria who are at some degree affiliated with ISIS.

No, I meant it cannot be compared to the shitty Iraqi army and such. Let's not also forget the Turkish army defeated the UK and Anzacs at Gallipoli. I don't mean it's a stronger army than the US or such but the Turkish army is at a different league from the Middle East. I mean it's like comparing Arsenal to a shitty Ukrainian second division team. So suggesting that ISIS could just cross over the Turkish border and capture some towns because it did good against Iraqi, Syrian armies as well as some Kurdish militias is more than silly.

I already stated that terror is a serious threat. Of course there might be individual ISIS sympathizers in Turkey, considering that even Japan has (and no, not Muslim immigrants). But ISIS does contitute as much threat towards Turkey as San Marino does Germany in soccer (that's even a generous example for ISIS).

Except I wasn't talking about the Syrian and Iraqi militaries also trying to say the Turkish army is better than the British army because of a battle that happened in WWI isn't all that smart of a comparison. I mean you don't see America trying to say they are better than the Japanese army in 2014 because of WWII you can't compare the two the armies are completly different. The only wars Turkey has in the last 50 years have been the Invasion of northern Cyprus in which 40,000 turkish soldiers fucked over 12,000 Cypriot forces and 2,000 Greek soldiers not something I'd say was a definitive show of tactical superiority just a fucking number wank. You gave medical support in Korea, you have around 300 or so troops to ISAF which is a fairly small contribution given your militaries size, you've had success against Kurdish fighters and raids into Iraq. I would say the modern turkish army is that experienced or at least as well as you make them out to be (although not a force to laughed at).

I'd definitely argue against that claim. It would be unbelievable that ISIS or an ISIS sympathizer to operate in a serious terror attack in Turkey especially in the largest cities in the west. The Kurd have been able to fight a war against your nation it would be inconceivable for the more well trained, better organized, and more well armed ISIS to conducted operations in Turkey. In fact I'd say that they would need to be as well armed as they are in Syria and Iraq they just need to be operating in the area.

[Gezi Park]

You gave medical support in Korea

Turkey sent the most amount of troops and had the most of amount casualties in Korea after the US and Britain. This ignorant statement is an insult towards all these martyries that died there. You're obviously talking out of your ass without any knowledge. Thus I won't even bother giving a shit about the rest of your post. Also I didn't say Turkey was stronger than the Britain or something. I just said Turkey is at the same league with the US, Britain etc. armies, not with Iraqi, Syrian or anything else in that region.

[Tule]

This is actually one of the reasons why I'm so frustrated by their Inaction. The Turkish army is probably the most potent military force in the region, second only to the IDF.

If they decided to attack ISIL right now, they would utterly destroy the organization as an effective fighting force. They would absolutely and utterly crush them in a display of force not seen since the Gulf War. They would slaughter the ISIL militants near Kobane like the pigs they are.

Turkey shouldn't get involved in that hellhole. We have our own internal problems.

Most of the other NATO states are involved over there right now. And if ISIL remains unopposed it will eventually become a much bigger problem for everyone in the region, including Turkey.

It doesn't take a political scientist to figure out that the values ISIL stands for conflict with the values of the Turkish nation.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

You gave medical support in Korea

Turkey sent the most amount of troops -snip- after the US and Britain.

Canada would like a word