The Mod-Sanctioned Scottish Referendum Megathread

[Bentus]

-snip-

I'm guessing here, and my British/Scottish/etc history isn't top notch so there's probably holes, but I think they're referring to the practical bankrupting of Scotland due to its colonisation efforts and then England agreeing to share the debt should the two countries form a union.
CGPgrey

[Pesda]

-snip-

I'm guessing here, and my British/Scottish/etc history isn't top notch so there's probably holes, but I think they're referring to the practical bankrupting of Scotland due to its colonisation efforts and then England agreeing to share the debt should the two countries form a union.
CGPgrey

Which is of course irrelevant to the questions I was asking.

[Glasgia]

-snip-

I'm guessing here, and my British/Scottish/etc history isn't top notch so there's probably holes, but I think they're referring to the practical bankrupting of Scotland due to its colonisation efforts and then England agreeing to share the debt should the two countries form a union.
CGPgrey

You know why Scotland went bankrupt? Because England only recognised their alliance when they wanted to. They allowed the Spanish to fuck the Scots settlers over with ease, while refusing to allow the colony to trade with English (and Dutch, because let's not forget that we had a Dutchman on the throne) settlements for supplies.

[Jinwoy]

and why is that?

The vote for independence is going to be the only chance we'll get for a long time to really improve the political system in Scotland and to change the political structure of the rest of the UK for the better.

Otherwise it's back to the old dominance of London and the south of England in politics and the marginalization of outlying regions. A Yes vote would force reform of voting in the rUK, and you'd see areas like the North of England get better representation.

And its not like you can't carry out another referendum in another 10 years, or if the public overwhelmingly demands it. You're making it out bigger than it actually is, which is equal parts dubious, hilarious, and scary.

[Jinwoy]

Oh dear oh no what is this I wonder. Since you obviously don't know the history, I explained part of it in earlier post.
This was my response to the above quote:



Whoops, you did it again. You played with my heart. Getting lost in the game. Oh baby, baby.

Instead of commenting on my knowledge of history, can you answer these questions?

Why would an independent Scotland go bankrupt? Who would take over an independent Scotland, and why would they? How is Scotland currently a power on the world stage? Why do you think that an independent Scotland wouldn't have actual money to do stuff with? Why would an independent Scotland be less politically and economically stable?

"You would know if you knew history" is not an answer.

It would, since I was speaking in a historical context to the benefits of the union. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

[Jinwoy]

I'm guessing here, and my British/Scottish/etc history isn't top notch so there's probably holes, but I think they're referring to the practical bankrupting of Scotland due to its colonisation efforts and then England agreeing to share the debt should the two countries form a union.
CGPgrey

You know why Scotland went bankrupt? Because England only recognised their alliance when they wanted to. They allowed the Spanish to fuck the Scots settlers over with ease, while refusing to allow the colony to trade with English (and Dutch, because let's not forget that we had a Dutchman on the throne) settlements for supplies.

So its England's job to defend Scotland's colonies even though Scotland is outside of the union? wut?

[Marcurix]

and why is that?

The vote for independence is going to be the only chance we'll get for a long time to really improve the political system in Scotland and to change the political structure of the rest of the UK for the better.

Otherwise it's back to the old dominance of London and the south of England in politics and the marginalization of outlying regions. A Yes vote would force reform of voting in the rUK, and you'd see areas like the North of England get better representation.

Hm, see into the future can you? Change is often a rapid and unexpected thing. Who's to say the increased powers promised by union parties wouldn't spur the same?

[Torphichen]

The leanings of the various socioeconomic status groups worries me in this referendum. I'm not too happy to be having to face the possibility of an independence pushed through by that lot.

[Glasgia]

You know why Scotland went bankrupt? Because England only recognised their alliance when they wanted to. They allowed the Spanish to fuck the Scots settlers over with ease, while refusing to allow the colony to trade with English (and Dutch, because let's not forget that we had a Dutchman on the throne) settlements for supplies.

So its England's job to defend Scotland's colonies even though Scotland is outside of the union? wut?

Because we had a personal union. Please don't baselessly insult Pesda's historical knowledge, when you clearly have none of your own.

[Machtergreifung]

The leanings of the various socioeconomic status groups worries me in this referendum. I'm not too happy to be having to face the possibility of an independence pushed through by that lot.

Define "that lot".

[Torphichen]

The leanings of the various socioeconomic status groups worries me in this referendum. I'm not too happy to be having to face the possibility of an independence pushed through by that lot.

Define "that lot".

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

[Machtergreifung]

Define "that lot".

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

Source?

[Torphichen]

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

It's shameful, they've been so nourished under Cameron's government as well. Where would they be without all the foodbanks?

Probably still thinking that a vote like this would suddenly make up for their feckless, thuggish ways and they would suddenly be living the good life.

[Glasgia]

Define "that lot".

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

Right, so because people don't have phones or internet makes them scum then?

[Marcurix]

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

Right, so because people don't have phones or internet makes them scum then?

I believe he's implying that because they're poor, and thus as a consequence don't have phones or internet and couldn't be contacted by pollsters, they tend to make decisions in ignorance.

Not accurate in any way, but i think that's what he's implying.

[Torphichen]

The absolute scum found in much higher proportions in low socioeconomic status areas that the SNP seem to be hoping have been missed by the pollsters due to their lack of phones and internet, etc

Right, so because people don't have phones or internet makes them scum then?

No. That would be a crazy leap to make.

[Torphichen]

Right, so because people don't have phones or internet makes them scum then?

I believe he's implying that because they're poor, and thus as a consequence don't have phones or internet and couldn't be contacted by pollsters, they tend to make decisions in ignorance.

Not accurate in any way, but i think that's what he's implying.

Nope.

The fecklessness and thuggishness is in correlation with the lack of contacts not caused by it. Societal drift is what stacks this type of person in greater proportions at the bottom of the pile.

[Glasgia]

Right, so because people don't have phones or internet makes them scum then?

No. That would be a crazy leap to make.

That appears to be what you're implying. You also appear to be implying that poor people are, in comparison to the middle and upper classes, scum. I don't take kindly to either of these ideas.

[Torphichen]

No. That would be a crazy leap to make.

That appears to be what you're implying. You also appear to be implying that poor people are, in comparison to the middle and upper classes, scum. I don't take kindly to either of these ideas.

Its not.

In greater proportions compared to more affluent groups. Yes. You may not take kindly to the idea and I don't necessarily say that they are entirely to blame for their ways but it is very much the case that crime follows poverty.

[Glasgia]

That appears to be what you're implying. You also appear to be implying that poor people are, in comparison to the middle and upper classes, scum. I don't take kindly to either of these ideas.

Its not.

In greater proportions compared to more affluent groups. Yes. You may not take kindly to the idea and I don't necessarily say that they are entirely to blame for their ways but it is very much the case that crime follows poverty.

Just because more people are forced to turn to crime does not make more people "scum".

[Torphichen]

Its not.

In greater proportions compared to more affluent groups. Yes. You may not take kindly to the idea and I don't necessarily say that they are entirely to blame for their ways but it is very much the case that crime follows poverty.

Just because more people are forced to turn to crime does not make more people "scum".

I'm not so naive as to think the majority or even a significant minority are "forced to turn to crime"

[Rebellious Fishermen]

I don't believe they should succeed due to economic reasons. Albeit I don't know the details on those economic issues, but I am under the impression that for Scotland to leave now would cause economic death for their country.

[Marcurix]

I don't believe they should succeed due to economic reasons. Albeit I don't know the details on those economic issues, but I am under the impression that for Scotland to leave now would cause economic death for their country.

It wouldn't.

The economic question is which would be better, not Scotland going belly up if we did separate.

[The Nihilistic view]

So its England's job to defend Scotland's colonies even though Scotland is outside of the union? wut?

Because we had a personal union. Please don't baselessly insult Pesda's historical knowledge, when you clearly have none of your own.

Nobody, Scots nor English paid much attention to that. They acted as two independent sovereign countries during this period. It was nobodies job to defend the other.

[Geilinor]

So its England's job to defend Scotland's colonies even though Scotland is outside of the union? wut?

Because we had a personal union. Please don't baselessly insult Pesda's historical knowledge, when you clearly have none of your own.

They had the same monarch, but both were separate countries. A personal union is "personal", it only relates to the throne.