With the last man,Enola Gay slips beneath the sea of history

[Gezi Park]

Yea, that.

Why? It wasn't his choice. Orders are orders.

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why? It wasn't his choice. Orders are orders.

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

It saved millions of people on both sides.

[Imperializt Russia]

Why? It wasn't his choice. Orders are orders.

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

Did you know the Japanese considered a nuclear weapons programme? They committed to an intelligence-sharing operation with the Nazis.

They decided that the American nuclear programme was no nearer a working weapon than the German programme.
The Manhattan Project scientists knew full well they were working on a weapon of unimaginable suffering. They were committed to building and using the bomb - Oppenheimer openly expressed regret that the bomb had not been ready for use against Germany.

This was because the Manhattan Project was run in fear of allowing the Germans or the Japanese of getting the bomb.
As soon as WWII was over, the Manhattan Project scientists campaigned against further use of the bomb.

It was a tool to bring about the end of WWII to them - nothing more.

[Organized States]

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

It saved millions of people on both sides.

Agreed. Those men are heroes, as they saved millions of Japanese civilians and Allied Troops from dying in a costly invasion.

[The Greater Aryan Race]

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

And sending in hundreds of thousands of men into a ground invasion of Japan with the expectation that they would incur massive losses from suicidal Japanese banzai charges and kamikaze attacks is better how??

Or continuing the firebombing of Japanese cities and the economic blockade of Japan, certainly bound to cause many more Japanese civilians to die, was an infinitely better option?

I call bullshit. The atomic bombs ended the war and averted the loss of many more lives.

[Napkiraly]

Why? It wasn't his choice. Orders are orders.

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

What's the difference between carpet bombing a city and hitting it with an atom bomb? At the end of the day a city is still being destroyed.

[Estado Paulista]

"Waaah, American war crimes!"

Oh, wait. Am I too late?

[Memell]

I would in no way obey any kind of order to kill about hundreds of thousands of people with an atomic bomb. And I won't even bother try discussing with lots of Americans here claiming they had a justification to do that under the presumption that more people could do die. Sorry but this was inhumane and a horrible war crime that its responsibles should have been tried just like Nazi officers.

It saved millions of people on both sides.

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It saved millions of people on both sides.

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

Ha, I'm guessing you don't know how many people died on Okinawa? Protip, more than 200,000 and the main islands would have been much worse.

[Memell]

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

Ha, I'm guessing you don't know how many people died on Okinawa? Protip, more than 200,000 and the main islands would have been much worse.

Actually, it's a quarter of that number.

[Imperializt Russia]

It saved millions of people on both sides.

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

Members of the former Imperial Japanese Army were still being found in military positions as late as 1972.

[Imperializt Russia]

Ha, I'm guessing you don't know how many people died on Okinawa? Protip, more than 200,000 and the main islands would have been much worse.

Actually, it's a quarter of that number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
~120,000 dead on both sides, plus that number again in civilian casualties.

So, yeah, about two hundred thousand.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ha, I'm guessing you don't know how many people died on Okinawa? Protip, more than 200,000 and the main islands would have been much worse.

Actually, it's a quarter of that number.

It's bad when even Wiki says you're wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

[Memell]

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

Members of the former Imperial Japanese Army were still being found in military positions as late as 1972.

That's indeed a notable loyalty and endurance. However, i'm not sure of many people they killed with that handful of cartridges they had left.

[Ifreann]

Impressive age to make it to.

Often ignored is the Pacific Theater of WWII.

Aside from the big bangs at the end.

[Organized States]

That's a legend spread by the so-called "Giustificationists". The invasion of Japan would have probably cost around 40.000 before the collapse of japanese industry and thus of the war effort.

Members of the former Imperial Japanese Army were still being found in military positions as late as 1972.

Sgt. Yokoi was one of them I believe.
Been to Sgt. Yokoi's cave, he was pretty well entrenched (probably one of the best I've ever seen) Probably could have taken out a good portion of the Cops (or even Marines in 1944) that had to take him out of there if he had his weapon. Imagine hundreds of his caves, spread out, with armed Japanese troops inside, it's scary to think of the causalities that would have been sustained.

[Organized States]

Members of the former Imperial Japanese Army were still being found in military positions as late as 1972.

That's indeed a notable loyalty and endurance. However, i'm not sure of many people they killed with that handful of cartridges they had left.

Dozens, raise you First Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, who killed 30 Villagers and wounded dozens more with his service weapon throughout the decades past 1945 until 1974.
Imagine hundreds of thousands of fanatical IJA troops like him, hiding everywhere and imagine the causalities it would have caused Allied troops.
Plus, not to mention the fact that military casualties weren't the only casualties. Such as in Saipan, where thousands of Civilians jumped to their own deaths off of cliffs rather than surrender.

[Napkiraly]

Members of the former Imperial Japanese Army were still being found in military positions as late as 1972.

Sgt. Yokoi was one of them I believe.
Been to Sgt. Yokoi's cave, he was pretty well entrenched (probably one of the best I've ever seen) Probably could have taken out a good portion of the Cops (or even Marines in 1944) that had to take him out of there if he had his weapon. Imagine hundreds of his caves, spread out, with armed Japanese troops inside, it's scary to think of the causalities that would have been sustained.

Hell, there were 120 000 Purple Hearts still in stock that were originally manufactured for casualties of Operation Downfall in 2003. Combat units in Afghanistan and Iraq were able to keep Purple Hearts on hand.

[Napkiraly]

That's indeed a notable loyalty and endurance. However, i'm not sure of many people they killed with that handful of cartridges they had left.

Dozens, raise you First Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, who killed 30 Villagers and wounded dozens more with his service weapon throughout the decades past 1945 until 1974.
Imagine hundreds of thousands of fanatical IJA troops like him, hiding everywhere and imagine the causalities it would have caused Allied troops.
Plus, not to mention the fact that military casualties weren't the only casualties. Such as in Saipan, were thousands of Civilians jumped to their own deaths off of cliffs rather than surrender.

We also have to assume the participation of the civilian population in the defense of the mainland.

[Organized States]

Sgt. Yokoi was one of them I believe.
Been to Sgt. Yokoi's cave, he was pretty well entrenched (probably one of the best I've ever seen) Probably could have taken out a good portion of the Cops (or even Marines in 1944) that had to take him out of there if he had his weapon. Imagine hundreds of his caves, spread out, with armed Japanese troops inside, it's scary to think of the causalities that would have been sustained.

Hell, there were 120 000 Purple Hearts still in stock that were originally manufactured for casualties of Operation Downfall in 2003. Combat units in Afghanistan and Iraq were able to keep Purple Hearts on hand.

Downfall would have been some bad crap, particularly Coronet (Allied troops, specifically US, Canadian, British and Australian would land right next to Tokyo, and then have to fight their way through Tokyo).

[Organized States]

Dozens, raise you First Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, who killed 30 Villagers and wounded dozens more with his service weapon throughout the decades past 1945 until 1974.
Imagine hundreds of thousands of fanatical IJA troops like him, hiding everywhere and imagine the causalities it would have caused Allied troops.
Plus, not to mention the fact that military casualties weren't the only casualties. Such as in Saipan, where thousands of Civilians jumped to their own deaths off of cliffs rather than surrender.

We also have to assume the participation of the civilian population in the defense of the mainland.

Very true, Banzai Charges with Civilian Participants would have raised the toll even further.

[Napkiraly]

We also have to assume the participation of the civilian population in the defense of the mainland.

Very true, Banzai Charges with Civilian Participants would have raised the toll even further.

Doesn't even have to be that. Punji sticks caked in dirt, faeces, etc. can cause nasty infections that'll take a person out of the front lines.

[Napkiraly]

Hell, there were 120 000 Purple Hearts still in stock that were originally manufactured for casualties of Operation Downfall in 2003. Combat units in Afghanistan and Iraq were able to keep Purple Hearts on hand.

Downfall would have been some bad crap, particularly Coronet (Allied troops, specifically US, Canadian, British and Australian would land right next to Tokyo, and then have to fight their way through Tokyo).

Yay, Grandpa!

[Organized States]

Very true, Banzai Charges with Civilian Participants would have raised the toll even further.

Doesn't even have to be that. Punji sticks caked in dirt, faeces, etc. can cause nasty infections that'll take a person out of the front lines.

Jesus, I shudder to think of some of the stuff the G.I.s would have gone through during Downfall.

[The Grey Wolf]

He may be dead, but his victims are still alive and suffering.