Old Man Kills Intruder

[Refora]

How is an elderly man capable of killing, killing I say an intruder . He may have been worried but killing please. GUILTY AS CHARGED.

[Tekania]

How is an elderly man capable of killing, killing I say an intruder . He may have been worried but killing please. GUILTY AS CHARGED.

As higher order apes we have access to tools. Some of these tools are capable of causing death when used in certain applications. These tools can be wielded with great effectiveness by people of many different ages... including the elderly.

[Imperializt Russia]

I would give the man a medal and pardon him.

So you approve of killing human beings?

Anyone who acknowledges the existence of the police and armed services without protest does.

I'd go far enough to say it can be interpreted that he my believe unborn fetus' have a greater 'right to life' than a Criminal.

I feel that they deserve the chance to contribute to the world
Who knows how many potential world leaders have been murdered, or future scientist that would cure HIV or cancer.

What a pathetic fallback argument.

[Ucropi]

Old man is a murderer and should be charged as such. Either second degree murder or manslaughter.

[Liberaxia]

Assault does not justify killing after the fact. The killing happened after the assault when the perpetrator was no longer a threat. Therefore, self defense doesn't come into it.

Actually, it does justify killing after the fact. Can you killing during the fact when bones are broken and two people are assaulting you? Self-defense absolutely applies. Saying it doesn't because it's inconvenient for your argument doesn't make your argument correct, Fris.

Actually, no it does not. Have you ever heard of proportionate force?

[Liberaxia]

That is not the response I expected.

What were you expecting? A plea for those who violate property rights of others and their rights? From me? The guy who favors vigilantism?

Question begging.

[The 502nd SS]

So you approve of killing human beings?

Anyone who acknowledges the existence of the police and armed services without protest does

I approve the killing of people that deserve it

[The 502nd SS]

Old man is a murderer and should be charged as such. Either second degree murder or manslaughter.

But then he should be pardoned

[Ucropi]

Old man is a murderer and should be charged as such. Either second degree murder or manslaughter.

But then he should be pardoned

Pretty sure vigilantism and murder are illegal in America.

[The 502nd SS]

But then he should be pardoned

Pretty sure vigilantism and murder are illegal in America.

But acting in self defense isn't

[Farnhamia]

Pretty sure vigilantism and murder are illegal in America.

But acting in self defense isn't

Ture, but the argument here is over the question of shooting a fleeing robber. You do not deny that the woman killed was running away, do you? And that, by his own admission, Greer "shot her anyway"?

[Ifreann]

Old man is a murderer and should be charged as such. Either second degree murder or manslaughter.

But then he should be pardoned

That would be politically disastrous.

[The 502nd SS]

But acting in self defense isn't

Ture, but the argument here is over the question of shooting a fleeing robber. You do not deny that the woman killed was running away, do you? And that, by his own admission, Greer "shot her anyway"?

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

[The 502nd SS]

But then he should be pardoned

That would be politically disastrous.

If I had the ability, I would do it anyways

[Ucropi]

Ture, but the argument here is over the question of shooting a fleeing robber. You do not deny that the woman killed was running away, do you? And that, by his own admission, Greer "shot her anyway"?

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

I didn't actually read that she was fleeing, he should be charged with 1st degree murder.

[Xeng He]

Suppose she raised her fist to hit him after having already kicked and beaten him. Suppose that while swinging her fist towards her nose she then stopped short of making physical contact with his nose. Does she now, having not made physical contact with his nose, pose no threat to his health and safety since she stopped short of punching him once last time?

She's in a situation where she could theoretically connect the punch in an instant, in your example. Furthermore, the situation she's in is actually somewhat less dangerous (for her) than it was when she started beating the man.

Compare that to a situation where she'd take a while to cause further problems, and she's in greater danger, and she's indicating a clear desire to not even be in the house (rather than simply not to continue pounding), and, well...

[The 502nd SS]

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

I didn't actually read that she was fleeing, he should be charged with 1st degree murder.

no it should be 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

[Ucropi]

I didn't actually read that she was fleeing, he should be charged with 1st degree murder.

no it should be 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

If he isn't in danger it means he could have time to commit Premeditated Murder so if he was able to "rationally consider the timing or method" it would be 1st degree.

[Ifreann]

Ture, but the argument here is over the question of shooting a fleeing robber. You do not deny that the woman killed was running away, do you? And that, by his own admission, Greer "shot her anyway"?

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

Being robbed does not give you a free pass to kill the person who robbed you whenever you want.

---

That would be politically disastrous.

If I had the ability, I would do it anyways

Perhaps you would.

[Sdaeriji]

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

I didn't actually read that she was fleeing, he should be charged with 1st degree murder.

First degree requires a level of premeditation that isn't possible in the literal seconds that likely elapsed between the initial attack the shooting. You were right the first time.

[The 502nd SS]

no it should be 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

If he isn't in danger it means he could have time to commit Premeditated Murder so if he was able to "rationally consider the timing or method" it would be 1st degree.

But he wasn't thinking rationally because he was in a great deal of physical and mental pain.

[Ucropi]

I didn't actually read that she was fleeing, he should be charged with 1st degree murder.

First degree requires a level of premeditation that isn't possible in the literal seconds that likely elapsed between the initial attack the shooting. You were right the first time.

For premeditation to exist all he would have to do is "rationally consider the timing or method", so if he had to leave the room to find his gun, which I'm assuming as a gun owner he had locked in a gun safe without ammo stored in it, that would give him the time to consider things.

[The 502nd SS]

Doesn't matter that she was running, they still robbed and assaulted him

Being robbed does not give you a free pass to kill the person who robbed you whenever you want.

---

If I had the ability, I would do it anyways

Perhaps you would.

But being horribly beaten and robbed and then killing the person seconds or a minute or two afterwards is a different case where it should be perfectly legal to do so.

[Ifreann]

First degree requires a level of premeditation that isn't possible in the literal seconds that likely elapsed between the initial attack the shooting. You were right the first time.

For premeditation to exist all he would have to do is "rationally consider the timing or method", so if he had to leave the room to find his gun, which I'm assuming as a gun owner he had locked in a gun safe without ammo stored in it, that would give him the time to consider things.

He had his gun and was firing when Miller and Adams were still in his house. He fired at them, they fled, he pursued, he shot Miller.

[Farnhamia]

Being robbed does not give you a free pass to kill the person who robbed you whenever you want.

---

Perhaps you would.

But being horribly beaten and robbed and then killing the person seconds or a minute or two afterwards is a different case where it should be perfectly legal to do so.

The robbers were out of the house and running away. Had he shot the woman while she was in the house we wouldn't even be talking about this.