Old Man Kills Intruder

[Grinning Dragon]

The old man made the mistake of running his mouth after a DGU. Best to shoot, shut up and lawyer up.

[Ifreann]

You've a long way to go to be my posting equal.

Everyone does. Minus the three or so individuals above and around you, of course.

Nah, Divair is long gone.

---

The old man made the mistake of running his mouth after a DGU.

DGU?

Best to shoot, shut up and lawyer up.

Bes to just not keep shooting in this case, I would have said.

[Vamtrl]

The old man made the mistake of running his mouth after a DGU. Best to shoot, shut up and lawyer up.

He should have shot them in the house and I would have had no problem even if he was talking shit.

[Xeng He]

Hrm...actually in thinking on this I'll have to slightly revise my thoughts on this...

While I agree that the woman shouldn't have died, I'm also uncomfortable prosecuting someone simply for lack of a competent assessment of the situation. So it has to be asked--did he genuinely feel there was an immediate risk to his life? If so, I wouldn't prosecute him.

It does seem pretty unlikely that he did, though. So I'm leaning towards the conclusion that he should be.

[Spoder]

Hrm...actually in thinking on this I'll have to slightly revise my thoughts on this...

While I agree that the woman shouldn't have died, I'm also uncomfortable prosecuting someone simply for lack of a competent assessment of the situation. So it has to be asked--did he genuinely feel there was an immediate risk to his life? If so, I wouldn't prosecute him.

It does seem pretty unlikely that he did, though. So I'm leaning towards the conclusion that he should be.

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

Sounds like he was feeling threatened with the first shot. Second shot is justified by the Castle Law.

[Vamtrl]

Hrm...actually in thinking on this I'll have to slightly revise my thoughts on this...

While I agree that the woman shouldn't have died, I'm also uncomfortable prosecuting someone simply for lack of a competent assessment of the situation. So it has to be asked--did he genuinely feel there was an immediate risk to his life? If so, I wouldn't prosecute him.

It does seem pretty unlikely that he did, though. So I'm leaning towards the conclusion that he should be.

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

Sounds like he was feeling threatened with the first shot. Second shot is justified by the Castle Law.

He chased them outside his residence, and shot her twice in the back while she plead for her life. Revenge is not justified and I hope he goes to prison.

[Tekania]

Hrm...actually in thinking on this I'll have to slightly revise my thoughts on this...

While I agree that the woman shouldn't have died, I'm also uncomfortable prosecuting someone simply for lack of a competent assessment of the situation. So it has to be asked--did he genuinely feel there was an immediate risk to his life? If so, I wouldn't prosecute him.

It does seem pretty unlikely that he did, though. So I'm leaning towards the conclusion that he should be.

Indeed, I think technically he just stepped over the line. I probably would not choose to prosecute (even though I would likely vote for a conviction myself) because I seriously doubt that the case could end with anything other than a mistrial. The simple fact is you're not going to end up, in this case, with 12 people who all vote the same, empaneled on a jury for either acquittal or guilt. IF the DA is foolish enough to proceed, I would hope that he polls the jury when the case ends in mistrial so he can see how foolish a refiling would be.

[Xeng He]

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

Sounds like he was feeling threatened with the first shot. Second shot is justified by the Castle Law.

Meh. If the Castle Law allows for murders when someone doesn't feel their life is at stake, it isn't just.


I also would dispute whether she could genuinely be called an intruder anymore, as she was fleeing.

[Liriena]

So... another case of someone properly defending themselves with a firearm, only to then give into their vengeful bloodthirst and murder the culprit.

Yeah, he should definitely be prosecuted. If she was running away and pleading for her life, killing her was uncalled for and, dare I say, dishonorable.

Also, that he does not regret it disturbs me.

[Ifreann]

Hrm...actually in thinking on this I'll have to slightly revise my thoughts on this...

While I agree that the woman shouldn't have died, I'm also uncomfortable prosecuting someone simply for lack of a competent assessment of the situation. So it has to be asked--did he genuinely feel there was an immediate risk to his life? If so, I wouldn't prosecute him.

It does seem pretty unlikely that he did, though. So I'm leaning towards the conclusion that he should be.

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

You say this based on what? As I read the account in the OP, he shot at his assailants, they fled, he pursued, and then he shot the woman, twice. If she had been shot I doubt she would have been in any state to continue fleeing.

Sounds like he was feeling threatened with the first shot. Second shot is justified by the Castle Law.

The one that only applies in a person's home? When the woman he shot was in the alley outside his home?

[MERIZoC]

Everyone does. Minus the three or so individuals above and around you, of course.

Nah, Divair is long gone.

Div is right below you. Nana, Farn, and Nightkill are the only ones with more posts.
http://forum.nationstates.net/memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d#memberlist

No bronze metal for you yet.

[Liriena]

Dude, in the fray that often can't be helped. Would you be thinking clearly after you were assaulted? By prosecuting him, you're deterring people from defending themselves. Plain and simple.

Wow...

[Liriena]

The old man is in the right. I have zero sympathy for the escaping robbers.

I don't care what the law says; if I were in charge I'd rewrite the laws so that no freaking trespasser (especially trespassers who were there to steal things) should have ANY course of action in court for things that happen during the commission of a crime. If you're willing to rob other people, then you need to own up to the consequences, and they might not just come from the police.

I hope the law will help the old man out. He was just avenging what those people did to his body and his property.

Your vengeful bloodthirst aside...

[Imperializt Russia]

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

You say this based on what? As I read the account in the OP, he shot at his assailants, they fled, he pursued, and then he shot the woman, twice. If she had been shot I doubt she would have been in any state to continue fleeing.

It's quite common, actually.
The account listed in the OP doesn't support that chain of events, though.

[Liriena]

no it isn't. if you think you can shoot people that are running away because they aren't a threat now but might be a threat later you have fundamentally misunderstood self-defence laws and need to look them up before you get yourself killed.

Don't come in here with that bullshit.
Don't waste my time with that bullshit.
There's the law and there's real life.

2edgy4me

[Rephesus]

He was being beaten on the floor, to the extent that his collarbone was broken. He's also an 80 year old.

He grabbed his, got up and shot her, and shot her again as she was running.

You say this based on what? As I read the account in the OP, he shot at his assailants, they fled, he pursued, and then he shot the woman, twice. If she had been shot I doubt she would have been in any state to continue fleeing.

It didn't say where, she easily could've been shot in an arm or hand or just grazed and still ran from adrenaline.

Sounds like he was feeling threatened with the first shot. Second shot is justified by the Castle Law.

The one that only applies in a person's home? When the woman he shot was in the alley outside his home?

She ran from within his home, the bullet was fired from his property iirc.

[Liriena]

You say this based on what? As I read the account in the OP, he shot at his assailants, they fled, he pursued, and then he shot the woman, twice. If she had been shot I doubt she would have been in any state to continue fleeing.

It didn't say where, she easily could've been shot in an arm or hand or just grazed and still ran from adrenaline.

The one that only applies in a person's home? When the woman he shot was in the alley outside his home?

She ran from within his home, the bullet was fired from his property iirc.

But she was outside of his property.

[Liriena]

Yes, a coward for not wanting to die.

Yes, a coward because they stooped to pulling the preggers card to get out of punishment.

Oh, you mean her death was not in self-defense, but a "punishment"?

Huh... If I may address the American NSGers...

Excuse me, ladies, gentlemen and non-binary beauties, but I'm just going to assume, acknowledging that I might be utterly wrong, that "punishing" criminals is not a right that the American legal system grants to the victims. Am I as embarrassingly incorrect as I fear?

[Liriena]

I think so yes.

The law should be rewritten so that it doesn't favor and protect criminals. Victims of crimes should not be revictimized by the law for avenging their honor.

This isn't Imperial Japan.

I'm pretty sure even in Imperial Japan a few folks would have lifted an eyebrow at this argument.

[Rephesus]

It didn't say where, she easily could've been shot in an arm or hand or just grazed and still ran from adrenaline.


She ran from within his home, the bullet was fired from his property iirc.

But she was outside of his property.

It doesn't state if the initial shot was taken when she was on his property, if so it would be justified. Property isn't an embassy line, it isn't "The second I'm on the sidewalk I am an innocent bystander". This man was defending himself and his property, she fled, he pursued.

[Liriena]

There's this little law that allows you to protect yourself from home invaders or criminals, he had the complete right to protect himself.

Not if the criminals were no longer within his property.

[Liriena]

But she was outside of his property.

It doesn't state if the initial shot was taken when she was on his property, if so it would be justified. Property isn't an embassy line, it isn't "The second I'm on the sidewalk I am an innocent bystander". This man was defending himself and his property, she fled, he pursued.

He pursued outside of the property and proceeded to kill her in cold blood.

[Liriena]

Then we need to change the law.

No, leave it like it is so we can have more forums like these where logic battles against machines with flawed coding who only know one word when debating their opponent "NOPE."

Hah. You're cute. <3

[Rephesus]

It doesn't state if the initial shot was taken when she was on his property, if so it would be justified. Property isn't an embassy line, it isn't "The second I'm on the sidewalk I am an innocent bystander". This man was defending himself and his property, she fled, he pursued.

He pursued outside of the property and proceeded to kill her in cold blood.

"
in cold blood
phrase of cold
1.
without feeling or mercy; ruthlessly.
"the government forces killed them in cold blood"
"

I'd hardly say it was in Cold Blood, the girl assaulted him, stole his belongings, vandalized his home, trespassed, broke and entered, and was physically violent.

This 80 year old man who's been a victim 4 times is not a 'cold blooded murderer'.

[Geilinor]

He was physically attacked, and now people are going to say he should go to prison for shooting in self-defense? Sure, 80-year olds should take being beat up.