Time to listen to idealistic fools argue with immoral, money grubbers.
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by Rob Halfordia » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:21 pm
by Arkolon » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:24 pm
by Communal Ecotopia » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:27 pm
Libervida wrote:I was having an argument with a friend who is a leftist. She argues that socialism and nationalism cannot exist together. However I feel that they can. She is going from a marxist perspective and definition of socialism which is explicitly against the bourguoise idea of nationalism, however I would simply define socialism in more pragmatic real terms: state ownership of production. (I realise the term is rather void of meaning over the last century) Our crux of difference was that she defined national socialism for example as corporatism rather than socialsm.)
I argued that ideologies using both have existed: IRA, Ba'thism, Mugabe, Ideologies of national liberation, some leftist palestinian organisations, pan-arabism etc. (It could be argued that one should not accept the self definition of such ideologies, but rather take a pragmatic analysis)
What say ye? Can nationalism and socialism exist side by side.
(pardon my English, it is not my first language.)
by Arglorand » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:13 pm
Soviet SSR wrote:Libervida wrote:I was having an argument with a friend who is a leftist. She argues that socialism and nationalism cannot exist together. However I feel that they can. She is going from a marxist perspective and definition of socialism which is explicitly against the bourguoise idea of nationalism, however I would simply define socialism in more pragmatic real terms: state ownership of production. (I realise the term is rather void of meaning over the last century) Our crux of difference was that she defined national socialism for example as corporatism rather than socialsm.)
I argued that ideologies using both have existed: IRA, Ba'thism, Mugabe, Ideologies of national liberation, some leftist palestinian organisations, pan-arabism etc. (It could be argued that one should not accept the self definition of such ideologies, but rather take a pragmatic analysis)
What say ye? Can nationalism and socialism exist side by side.
(pardon my English, it is not my first language.)
Nationalism and socialism can`t coexist. Nationalism favors people who are from there country like Poland-Polish, France-French, China-Chinese. Socialism will benefit everyone by public programs and efforts to close the gap between the rich and poor.
by Nationes Pii Redivivi » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:39 pm
by Threlizdun » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:09 am
by Gigaverse » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:11 am
Art-person(?). Japan liker. tired-ish.
Student inlinguistics???. On-and-off writer.
MAKE CAKE NOT stupidshiticanmakefunof.born in, raised in and emigrated from vietbongistan lolol
Operating this polity based on preferences and narrative purposes
clowning incident | clowning incident | bottom text
can produce noises in (in order of grasp) vietbongistani, oldspeak
and bonjourois (learning weebspeak and hitlerian at uni)
by Provence-Corsica » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:17 am
by Threlizdun » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:33 am
Which is a common function of war economies. The Nazis employed extensive state intervention in the economy; they did not abolish private property and make the means of production socially owned and democratically administrated. The National Socialist German Worker's Party explained that the term "socialist" in their party named referred to a political and economic structure dedicated towards the promotion of societal needs rather than accumulation of capital for those in power. It was an attempt at reappropriating the term to earn the votes of the working class and disenchanted Social Democrats and Communists. They maintained fierce opposition to both socialism and other associated movements such as trade unionism throughout the entirety of their rule.Provence-Corsica wrote:Dejanic wrote:Ignoring the early rhetoric of the NAZI'S, it's clear that the market based pro business and pro corporate Nazi German economy was not Socialist.
It almost was. German corporations were for all intents and purposes acting as extensions of the Government, and if they didn't agree to that, they were confiscated from the owners and became formal extensions of the Government.
by Liberaxia » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:48 am
Provence-Corsica wrote:Dejanic wrote:Ignoring the early rhetoric of the NAZI'S, it's clear that the market based pro business and pro corporate Nazi German economy was not Socialist.
It almost was. German corporations were for all intents and purposes acting as extensions of the Government, and if they didn't agree to that, they were confiscated from the owners and became formal extensions of the Government.
by Andarro » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:16 pm
Libervida wrote:I was having an argument with a friend who is a leftist. She argues that socialism and nationalism cannot exist together. However I feel that they can. She is going from a marxist perspective and definition of socialism which is explicitly against the bourguoise idea of nationalism, however I would simply define socialism in more pragmatic real terms: state ownership of production. (I realise the term is rather void of meaning over the last century) Our crux of difference was that she defined national socialism for example as corporatism rather than socialsm.)
I argued that ideologies using both have existed: IRA, Ba'thism, Mugabe, Ideologies of national liberation, some leftist palestinian organisations, pan-arabism etc. (It could be argued that one should not accept the self definition of such ideologies, but rather take a pragmatic analysis)
What say ye? Can nationalism and socialism exist side by side.
(pardon my English, it is not my first language.)
by Arkolon » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:18 pm
by The Scientific States » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:19 pm
by Duvniask » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:37 pm
by Liberaxia » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:40 pm
by Arkolon » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:45 pm
by Arkolon » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:46 pm
by Augarundus » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:48 pm
Can Socialism and Nationalism co-exist?
by Zeouria » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:48 pm
by Arglorand » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Zeouria wrote:Socialism attempts to unify the workers of different countries. Socialists attempt to break down feelings of Nationalism and replace them with feelings of pride for one's class.
by Duvniask » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:35 pm
Arkolon wrote:Duvniask wrote:Not by itself. Economic socialization is a deeper process of transforming the social relations of production instead of simply changing ownership.
I was referring to socialism in the Marxian sense, ie the transition stage from capitalism to communism-- dictatorship of the proletariat, state socialism, and whatnot.
by The New Sea Territory » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:33 pm
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by The New Sea Territory » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:35 pm
Zeouria wrote:Socialism attempts to unify the workers of different countries. Socialists attempt to break down feelings of Nationalism and replace them with feelings of pride for one's class.
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
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