Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Oceasia]

At least Malaysian Airlines has stopped flying over the Ukraine. Seems they are now flying over Syria.

Story - http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world ... index.html

Before you know it, another plane will crash in Syria, so they have to divert south through Palestine. Oh, wait.

[Farnhamia]

At least Malaysian Airlines has stopped flying over the Ukraine. Seems they are now flying over Syria.

Story - http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world ... index.html

*makes a note to sell any shares in Malaysia Airllines*

[The Alma Mater]

In related news: the mayor of the Dutch municipality of Hilversum is getting an awful lot of angry responses to his suggestion that the Netherlands should consider deporting Putins daughter (who lives in the Netherlands with her boyfriend). So much in fact that he cannot stop making excuses.

However, police have posted some guards outside her home, just in case some nutjobs get any silly ideas.

[Imperializt Russia]

A large number of Ukrainians support secessionism in the East, to incorporate with Russia.
Unsurprisingly, some Russian groups may actively seek to facilitate this secession.

Some of these Ukrainians may well identify as Russian for this reason.

Just look how many foreigners jihad is able to recruit.

It should be underlined that the "large number" is a comparatively small minority.

This in no way precludes the fact that it is a "large number".

[Oceasia]

In related news: the mayor of the Dutch municipality of Hilversum is getting an awful lot of angry responses to his suggestion that the Netherlands should consider deporting Putins daughter (who lives in the Netherlands with her boyfriend). So much in fact that he cannot stop making excuses.

However, police have posted some guards outside her home, just in case some nutjobs get any silly ideas.

Yeah, i get what you're talking about, and i feel bad for her.

[Kahlenberg]

In related news: the mayor of the Dutch municipality of Hilversum is getting an awful lot of angry responses to his suggestion that the Netherlands should consider deporting Putins daughter (who lives in the Netherlands with her boyfriend). So much in fact that he cannot stop making excuses.

However, police have posted some guards outside her home, just in case some nutjobs get any silly ideas.

It is quite an outrageous proposal, especially coming out of the mouth of a mayor. He already stated his proposal was ironic, that he was not being serious and that it was stupid to say that on air. Being Dutch, I still feel a tad ashamed for that tool, though.

[The Alma Mater]

For those who want to see a live stream of the colonne with the victims:

http://www.npo.nl/live/nederland-1

[Ducrotia]

In related news: the mayor of the Dutch municipality of Hilversum is getting an awful lot of angry responses to his suggestion that the Netherlands should consider deporting Putins daughter (who lives in the Netherlands with her boyfriend). So much in fact that he cannot stop making excuses.

However, police have posted some guards outside her home, just in case some nutjobs get any silly ideas.

It is quite an outrageous proposal, especially coming out of the mouth of a mayor. He already stated his proposal was ironic, that he was not being serious and that it was stupid to say that on air. Being Dutch, I still feel a tad ashamed for that tool, though.

I agree. It would not be fair to punish Putin's daughter for something he did. She's not responsible for his actions.

[Registug]

It is quite an outrageous proposal, especially coming out of the mouth of a mayor. He already stated his proposal was ironic, that he was not being serious and that it was stupid to say that on air. Being Dutch, I still feel a tad ashamed for that tool, though.

I agree. It would not be fair to punish Putin's daughter for something he did. She's not responsible for his actions.

Last I checked, Putin wasn't a Pro-Russian rebel

[Spirit of Hope]

I agree. It would not be fair to punish Putin's daughter for something he did. She's not responsible for his actions.

Last I checked, Putin wasn't a Pro-Russian rebel

Yes but he has done very little to try and stop the rebels, may have been supporting them and is certainly responsible for the Russian take over of Crimea, which helped create this whole crisis.

[The Blaatschapen]

It is quite an outrageous proposal, especially coming out of the mouth of a mayor. He already stated his proposal was ironic, that he was not being serious and that it was stupid to say that on air. Being Dutch, I still feel a tad ashamed for that tool, though.

I agree. It would not be fair to punish Putin's daughter for something he did. She's not responsible for his actions.

Besides. If we were to kick out daughters because their dad was naughty. Well, I know a woman, that even has easy access to our king , that fits that particular premise.

[Cobmeister]

Last I checked, Putin wasn't a Pro-Russian rebel

Yes but he has done very little to try and stop the rebels, may have been supporting them and is certainly responsible for the Russian take over of Crimea, which helped create this whole crisis.

I think Mr Yanukovych had a lot to do with this as well.

[The Alma Mater]

For those who want to see a live stream of the colonne with the victims:

http://www.npo.nl/live/nederland-1

And a vid by CNN on how the bodies were greeted.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world ... ?hpt=hp_c1

And their feed:
http://www.playlivenews.com/2010/08/wat ... news-live/

[Roski]

WASHINGTON -- Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/us-no-link-to-russian-government-in-plane-downing.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

[Neoconstantius]

WASHINGTON -- Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/us-no-link-to-russian-government-in-plane-downing.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Eh. Ukraine is every bit as culpable as Russia for escalating the conflict, but that's an interesting spin as it falls far short of the strong rhetoric and accusations US officials have been hurling against Russia in the past few days.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

WASHINGTON -- Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/us-no-link-to-russian-government-in-plane-downing.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Eh. Ukraine is every bit as culpable as Russia for escalating the conflict, but that's an interesting spin as it falls far short of the strong rhetoric and accusations US officials have been hurling against Russia in the past few days.

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this situation.

It's a farce. It's been a farce since the start.

Yeah, Russia's doing bad stuff. But we've got a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black here.

[Roski]

WASHINGTON -- Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/us-no-link-to-russian-government-in-plane-downing.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Eh. Ukraine is every bit as culpable as Russia for escalating the conflict, but that's an interesting spin as it falls far short of the strong rhetoric and accusations US officials have been hurling against Russia in the past few days.

Yes, and a nice one at that. So the US Government has officially went "It was the seperatists, not Russia." I guess Lyttenburg doesn't have a case.

[Roski]

Eh. Ukraine is every bit as culpable as Russia for escalating the conflict, but that's an interesting spin as it falls far short of the strong rhetoric and accusations US officials have been hurling against Russia in the past few days.

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this situation.

It's a farce. It's been a farce since the start.

Yeah, Russia's doing bad stuff. But we've got a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black here.

Whoever's got the biggest guns can do what they like.
Sadly.

[Neoconstantius]

A large number of Ukrainians support secessionism in the East, to incorporate with Russia.
Unsurprisingly, some Russian groups may actively seek to facilitate this secession.

Some of these Ukrainians may well identify as Russian for this reason.

Just look how many foreigners jihad is able to recruit.

It should be underlined that the "large number" is a comparatively small minority.

See, for example:

http://arsenalfordemocracy.com/2014/03/ ... 8_jkvldVm8
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/12/world/eur ... -cnn-poll/
http://www.iri.org/news-events-press-ce ... n-strong-t

Even in the eastern oblasts, a clear majority of Ukrainians are opposed to the separatists... according to independent polls. Which can be compared with the evidence of demonstrations and direct action themselves: No "pro-Russian" demonstration has been anywhere near the size of the largest pro-Maidan demonstrations in the same cities. They've all been fairly small - not more than a couple thousand people, and that's with a number of the participants in those demonstrations coming from outside the Ukraine.

The separatists claim otherwise, of course. They've held some sham referendums and claimed that an absurdly large fraction of residents support breaking away. Why? Because it worked in Crimea.

Some Ukrainians identify themselves as being ethnically or nationalistically Russian for very simple reasons: They, or their parents, come from Russia itself. The self-appointed president of Luhansk was born across the border in the Russian SSR, for example. The USSR was a single country until 1991... and even without considering relatively recent migration, there have been ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians both living in the area for a long time.

But Ukrainians identifying themselves as Russian are in the minority even in the oblast of Donetsk. Crimea's the only part of the Ukraine where a majority identify as ethnically Russian, and not an overwhelming majority by any standard (~60%).

The polls you cite are months out of date, and given the situation on the ground in eastern Ukraine prevailing opinion has almost certainly shifted. After weeks of repeated shelling and mounting civilian casualties, the local residents probably do not feel the same way about Kiev as they once did.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Also, it appears the flight recorders were not tampered with:
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukrain ... 57612.html

Given that this is the "Kyiv Post," I think we can safely assume that the communist-fascist running dog Putinist press isn't influencing them.

[Neoconstantius]

Also, it appears the flight recorders were not tampered with:
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukrain ... 57612.html

Given that this is the "Kyiv Post," I think we can safely assume that the communist-fascist running dog Putinist press isn't influencing them.

It's good to hear they weren't "tempered with", wouldn't want the black boxes getting upset.

[Arkinesia]

Eh. Ukraine is every bit as culpable as Russia for escalating the conflict, but that's an interesting spin as it falls far short of the strong rhetoric and accusations US officials have been hurling against Russia in the past few days.

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this situation.

It's a farce. It's been a farce since the start.

Yeah, Russia's doing bad stuff. But we've got a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black here.

The US would be doing more if Ukraine wasn't so awful. They've been intentionally distancing themselves from the new government where possible because of the obvious flaws in the way it's being run.

[Roski]

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this situation.

It's a farce. It's been a farce since the start.

Yeah, Russia's doing bad stuff. But we've got a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black here.

The US would be doing more if Ukraine wasn't so awful. They've been intentionally distancing themselves from the new government where possible because of the obvious flaws in the way it's being run.

I believe its more the fear of its European Allies going under due to lack of oil and power.

[Ducrotia]

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this situation.

It's a farce. It's been a farce since the start.

Yeah, Russia's doing bad stuff. But we've got a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black here.

The US would be doing more if Ukraine wasn't so awful. They've been intentionally distancing themselves from the new government where possible because of the obvious flaws in the way it's being run.

The US would be doing more for Ukraine if it didn't mean that Russia might stop giving us oil.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The US would be doing more if Ukraine wasn't so awful. They've been intentionally distancing themselves from the new government where possible because of the obvious flaws in the way it's being run.

The US would be doing more for Ukraine if it didn't mean that Russia might stop giving us oil.

We don't really get any significant amount of oil from Russia. We domestically produce the majority of our oil and our biggest trading partners are Canada and then the Middle East.