Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Oneracon]

If anything, disasters like this give many people a chance to get a good look at the Kremlin's PR strategies in full force.

Sowing misinformation and conspiracy theories to obfuscate the actual story, leading many people to falsely think "Well, it seems complicated and there's probably two sides to this story so I shouldn't trust the dominant narrative." Since, according to the independent Russian think tank Levada Center, 90% of Russians get their news on the situation in Ukraine from state-run channels, and about 70% believe that said news is either completely or mostly objective... it seems it will work rather well.

[Costa Fierro]

It's in Russia's on interested to provide their spin on events. After all, no one wants to be implicated in an act of mass manslaughter.

[Oneracon]

It's in Russia's on interested to provide their spin on events. After all, no one wants to be implicated in an act of mass manslaughter.

Oh no doubt you wouldn't want to be implicated in potential war crimes.

It's just impressive to watch the Kremlin PR machine in action, and how effective it is at controlling the opinions of the public.

[The Orson Empire]

What is with all of these aircraft crashing?

Seriously, there have been 3 aircraft crashes in the span of just 1 week.

[Greater Beggnig]

Has the Netherlands submitted its UN Proposal to have a multi-national police force securing the crash site?
Or is it being drafted?

[Washington Resistance Army]

What is with all of these aircraft crashing?

Seriously, there have been 3 aircraft crashes in the span of just 1 week.

Not sure you can call this a crash.

[Roski]

What is with all of these aircraft crashing?

Seriously, there have been 3 aircraft crashes in the span of just 1 week.

Not sure you can call this a crash.

You could.
Its a forced crash.

[Limborg]

All the flights I've been on have been from Aus to Indonesia, they're hardly more than a couple hundred. >_>

I really can't say how much more it would cost, but it would be a lot.

Well A quick look up of Aviation fuel said $6 a gallon, though this was for small prop planes not big jet liners. A Boeing 777 can hold around 45,000 gallons of fuel, so $270,000 to completely fill. If the route over the Ukraine saves 10% on fuel that is $27,000 a flight, or $69 per passenger (assuming 386 passengers). And I wouldn't be surprised if the price I found for fuel was low.

Plus as mentioned one of the better alternate routs goes over Syria, which isn't that much of an improvement safety wise.

Fun fact though, all flights now avoid Ukriane, and they haven't gotten more expensive at all, at least not over here.

[Costa Fierro]

It's in Russia's on interested to provide their spin on events. After all, no one wants to be implicated in an act of mass manslaughter.

Oh no doubt you wouldn't want to be implicated in potential war crimes.

It's just impressive to watch the Kremlin PR machine in action, and how effective it is at controlling the opinions of the public.

Effective? Pretty much everyone blamed Putin for this and still do. All the Russians did was provide entertainment for the charade.

[Roski]

Well A quick look up of Aviation fuel said $6 a gallon, though this was for small prop planes not big jet liners. A Boeing 777 can hold around 45,000 gallons of fuel, so $270,000 to completely fill. If the route over the Ukraine saves 10% on fuel that is $27,000 a flight, or $69 per passenger (assuming 386 passengers). And I wouldn't be surprised if the price I found for fuel was low.

Plus as mentioned one of the better alternate routs goes over Syria, which isn't that much of an improvement safety wise.

Fun fact though, all flights now avoid Ukriane, and they haven't gotten more expensive at all, at least not over here.

And I am sure you have the source for that, and you aren't just speaking out of your ass, as you have been the whole time?

[Kahlenberg]

Fun fact though, all flights now avoid Ukriane, and they haven't gotten more expensive at all, at least not over here.

And I am sure you have the source for that, and you aren't just speaking out of your ass, as you have been the whole time?

Well a ticket from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur and back is 580 euros according to Tix.nl, a major Dutch booking site. If there is a difference with before, it's not major.

It could, of course, be that the airlines are taking the extra loss on profit instead of overcharging customers. Aviation is quite a competitive market, especially with the rise of website that compare prices, and raising ticket prices could cost you more then it will gain you (simple price elasticity).

In other news (though some of it is old), the Dutch are sending 60 unarmed military police officers to the crash site and have put two air force brigades on stand-by and a Russian paper used "Forgive us, Holland" as their headline today.

[Organized States]

they need more fuel when taking a longer route. more fuel costs more. and not by a few dollars worth.

Are a few bucks worth the loss of a plane and the loss of so many lives? I don't think so.

As in hundreds of thousands of dollars, AV Gas is expensive you know. That flight would have cost them more than they would more than they would have made. The routes Limborg has stated would cost them millions of dollars more than they would have made.

1.Then why do all airliners fly those routes now?
2.Source.

1. Trying to avoid being sued for endangering passengers (only a few however, most are going over Syria now).
2. Math. Calculate fuel costs (including the total fuel cost) on top of permits to fly over the new countries, paying employees, and taxes.

[Imperializt Russia]

What is with all of these aircraft crashing?

Seriously, there have been 3 aircraft crashes in the span of just 1 week.

Not sure you can call this a crash.

How is it not?

[Australian rePublic]

Are a few bucks worth the loss of a plane and the loss of so many lives? I don't think so.



1.Then why do all airliners fly those routes now?
2.Source.

1. Trying to avoid being sued for endangering passengers (only a few however, most are going over Syria now).
2. Math. Calculate fuel costs (including the total fuel cost) on top of permits to fly over the new countries, paying employees, and taxes.

Plus the firkin huge obstacle of the Himalayas

[Australian rePublic]

What is with all of these aircraft crashing?

Seriously, there have been 3 aircraft crashes in the span of just 1 week.

Not sure you can call this a crash.

[Roski]

And I am sure you have the source for that, and you aren't just speaking out of your ass, as you have been the whole time?

Well a ticket from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur and back is 580 euros according to Tix.nl, a major Dutch booking site. If there is a difference with before, it's not major.

It could, of course, be that the airlines are taking the extra loss on profit instead of overcharging customers. Aviation is quite a competitive market, especially with the rise of website that compare prices, and raising ticket prices could cost you more then it will gain you (simple price elasticity).

In other news (though some of it is old), the Dutch are sending 60 unarmed military police officers to the crash site and have put two air force brigades on stand-by and a Russian paper used "Forgive us, Holland" as their headline today.

So basically, its still not going up, but the prices went up?
That's really generous of the capitalist world, really

[Kahlenberg]

Well a ticket from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur and back is 580 euros according to Tix.nl, a major Dutch booking site. If there is a difference with before, it's not major.

It could, of course, be that the airlines are taking the extra loss on profit instead of overcharging customers. Aviation is quite a competitive market, especially with the rise of website that compare prices, and raising ticket prices could cost you more then it will gain you (simple price elasticity).

In other news (though some of it is old), the Dutch are sending 60 unarmed military police officers to the crash site and have put two air force brigades on stand-by and a Russian paper used "Forgive us, Holland" as their headline today.

So basically, its still not going up, but the prices went up?
That's really generous of the capitalist world, really

It has absolutely nothing to do with generosity. It's the best strategy to still maximize your profit, or minimize your losses.

[Registug]

Has the Netherlands submitted its UN Proposal to have a multi-national police force securing the crash site?
Or is it being drafted?

'straya is sending a bunch of Australian federal police

[Kahlenberg]

Has the Netherlands submitted its UN Proposal to have a multi-national police force securing the crash site?
Or is it being drafted?

'straya is sending a bunch of Australian federal police

And the Netherlands are sending 60 unarmed military policemen, and have a couple of airborne brigades on stand-by.

[Registug]

I think we're also sending some Army personnel, as the AFP are unarmed

[Kahlenberg]

I think we're also sending some Army personnel, as the AFP are unarmed

I heard the idea is not to send in armed men at this point in order not to provoke escalation of the conflict in the area. I guess Australia keeps some special forces or airborne units stand-by and in proximity to the crash site as well in case the unarmed policemen of either country are attacked.

[Organized States]

I think we're also sending some Army personnel, as the AFP are unarmed

It appears that they will probably be special forces, I don't know however. I'm surprised there isn't as much NATO support as I would imagine, but I guess that's logical when you are trying to play nice with the Russians.

[Roski]

I think we're also sending some Army personnel, as the AFP are unarmed

I heard the idea is not to send in armed men at this point in order not to provoke escalation of the conflict in the area. I guess Australia keeps some special forces or airborne units stand-by and in proximity to the crash site as well in case the unarmed policemen of either country are attacked.

But what are the unarmed policemen going to do if attacked? Its not like a Leopard tank column (closest NATO country with sick tanks) is nearby? They gonna wag their fingers at them?

[Registug]

I think we're also sending some Army personnel, as the AFP are unarmed

I heard the idea is not to send in armed men at this point in order not to provoke escalation of the conflict in the area. I guess Australia keeps some special forces or airborne units stand-by and in proximity to the crash site as well in case the unarmed policemen of either country are attacked.

Australia ain't fucking around here. We'll have Army guys guarding our AFP. If some dumb rebels want to shoot at us, we're shooting the fuck back. So protip for the rebels here: don't fucking start shooting at us.

[Organized States]

I heard the idea is not to send in armed men at this point in order not to provoke escalation of the conflict in the area. I guess Australia keeps some special forces or airborne units stand-by and in proximity to the crash site as well in case the unarmed policemen of either country are attacked.

But what are the unarmed policemen going to do if attacked? Its not like a Leopard tank column (closest NATO country with sick tanks) is nearby? They gonna wag their fingers at them?

I'd assume, run away and hide, until the Special Forces and Air Support can arrive.