Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[Oaledonia]

Blame Novorossiya

+1 for using a historical name for the pure reason of pissing people off.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'd imagine less than the 2-3 years (almost) every male over the age of 40 received serving in the armed forces of the USSR.
...
In fact, considering Ukraine itself had conscription until 2013, I'd imagine people trained to operate Buk's or familiar with how to make them work via manual -reading would be quite commonplace in Ukraine.

And that's ignoring the possibility of Russian assistance.

However are conscripted personnel even likely to be assigned to complex equipment such as long range surface-to-air missiles? I see that most likely being something a standing force of long term professionals would be assigned to.

Conscripts were called upon to fill the vast tank armies and nuclear forces of the Soviet Union. Just because a person has been conscripted does not mean they are inherently unsuitable for complex tasks and postings.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Blame Novorossiya

+1 for using a historical name for the pure reason of pissing people off.

Its the current name of the Federal Union between Donetsk & Lugansk just so you know.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

However are conscripted personnel even likely to be assigned to complex equipment such as long range surface-to-air missiles? I see that most likely being something a standing force of long term professionals would be assigned to.

Conscripts were called upon to fill the vast tank armies and nuclear forces of the Soviet Union. Just because a person has been conscripted does not mean they are inherently unsuitable for complex tasks and postings.

Of course, yet still, there is no realistic way Novorossiya Armed Forces personnel could have been able to do it only a few days or weeks upon acquiring a system they never had before. Additionally, they have been incurring heavy losses against Euromaidan régime troops on the ground. I do not see why it would be favourable for them to trigger something at this point. Nor would Russia, whose government has refused to get deeply involved in the situation. (You should look into the numerous times Novorossiya complained Russia was not doing much to help them)

[Imperializt Russia]

Conscripts were called upon to fill the vast tank armies and nuclear forces of the Soviet Union. Just because a person has been conscripted does not mean they are inherently unsuitable for complex tasks and postings.

Of course, yet still, there is no realistic way Novorossiya Armed Forces personnel could have been able to do it only a few days or weeks upon acquiring a system they never had before.

Well tomorrow evening I'll crack open that SAM simulator and see what happens.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Of course, yet still, there is no realistic way Novorossiya Armed Forces personnel could have been able to do it only a few days or weeks upon acquiring a system they never had before.

Well tomorrow evening I'll crack open that SAM simulator and see what happens.

I shalt take a look at it myself.

However it should be kept in mind that like a flight simulator (for example, you are not indeed in a plane performing complex manoeuvres, nor are those g-forces, lift, drag etcetera affecting you in the simulations either), its not the real real deal.

[Imperializt Russia]

If the question really is, "can an untrained rebel flip some switches and shoot down an aircraft", then this simulation should be wholly sufficient to test that.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

If the question really is, "can an untrained rebel flip some switches and shoot down an aircraft", then this simulation should be wholly sufficient to test that.

Indeed.

[Spirit of Hope]

Honestly questioning the ability of the missile crew is rather silly, a Ukrainian military transport plane went down in that same area only a couple of days before the Milesian plane went down. Now it is incredibly unlikely that both planes suffered malfunctions that would bring them down mid flight, or had pilot errors that crashed them both. So most likely someone is shooting planes down.

There is very little reason for the Ukrainian gov't to go around shooting its own planes and civilian transports. They are unlikely to gain much from other governments, and there is way to big a chance of detection to such a plot.

Russia has no incentive to shoot down these planes, as it would certainly just speed up sanctions and asset freezes by other countries.

The most likely culprit is the separatists, who accidentally shot down the civilian plane. They don't need to be good at it, and most likely if they captured the missile launcher at least some of the crew defected to join them. Those crew could at least cover most of the jobs and teach the fundamentals to others.

[Ducrotia]

Honestly questioning the ability of the missile crew is rather silly, a Ukrainian military transport plane went down in that same area only a couple of days before the Milesian plane went down. Now it is incredibly unlikely that both planes suffered malfunctions that would bring them down mid flight, or had pilot errors that crashed them both. So most likely someone is shooting planes down.

There is very little reason for the Ukrainian gov't to go around shooting its own planes and civilian transports. They are unlikely to gain much from other governments, and there is way to big a chance of detection to such a plot.

Russia has no incentive to shoot down these planes, as it would certainly just speed up sanctions and asset freezes by other countries.

The most likely culprit is the separatists, who accidentally shot down the civilian plane. They don't need to be good at it, and most likely if they captured the missile launcher at least some of the crew
defected to join them. Those crew could at least cover most of the jobs and teach the fundamentals

to others.

That make sense

[Neoconstantius]

US intelligence has just acknowledged that there was a Ukrainian Su-25 in the vicinity of MH17.

[Spirit of Hope]

US intelligence has just acknowledged that there was a Ukrainian Su-25 in the vicinity of MH17.

There are still a massive amount of technical problems that would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the Su-25 to have shot down the plane. There is the additional question of why the Ukrainian gov't would want to shoot down the plane, and why the would have used a ground attack plane to shoot down the plane.

[Costa Fierro]

US intelligence has just acknowledged that there was a Ukrainian Su-25 in the vicinity of MH17.

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

[Kargintina]

WW3 inbound

[United Marxist Nations]

US intelligence has just acknowledged that there was a Ukrainian Su-25 in the vicinity of MH17.

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

I think one of the theories is that the Rebels saw an SU-25 with it, and that made it look more like a military plane. One of the "ugh" theories is that the SU-25 was directing MH17 to where it was vulnerable to SAM fire.

[Neoconstantius]

US intelligence has just acknowledged that there was a Ukrainian Su-25 in the vicinity of MH17.

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

Extremely unlikely.

This is only interesting because Ukraine had previously denied it had any military aircraft in the air at the time of the crash.

[Neoconstantius]

WW3 inbound

Yeah right.

[Spirit of Hope]

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

I think one of the theories is that the Rebels saw an SU-25 with it, and that made it look more like a military plane. One of the "ugh" theories is that the SU-25 was directing MH17 to where it was vulnerable to SAM fire.

Since everything I have read says it was staying on its planed flight bath that particular theory sounds unlikely. Also the missile crews are probably relying on radar and would have had little idea what a particular plane looks like. They might not have even know the Su-35 was there, given it might have been flying low and at a couple of kilometers might have been outside of radar range, our outside the search parameters.

[Wasyt]

Footage of Putin HIMSELF blowing up MH17

[Neoconstantius]

Footage of Putin HIMSELF blowing up MH17

That isn't funny.

[Costa Fierro]

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

Extremely unlikely.

This is only interesting because Ukraine had previously denied it had any military aircraft in the air at the time of the crash.

So you are saying that they are lying about it?

[United Marxist Nations]

Footage of Putin HIMSELF blowing up MH17

That isn't funny.

I have to agree. I'd say it's pretty distaseful.

[Kamchastkia]

That isn't funny.

I have to agree. I'd say it's pretty distaseful.

I have better footage of Putin's response to being asked if he shot down MH17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WF5BRvom8o

[Souriya Al-Assad]

And? What, do you think that an Su-25 is capable of shooting it down?

I think one of the theories is that the Rebels saw an SU-25 with it, and that made it look more like a military plane. One of the "ugh" theories is that the SU-25 was directing MH17 to where it was vulnerable to SAM fire.

It is also possible that some other Ukrainian military plane shot it. The wings of the MH17 hath sizeable bullet holes, something of Gsh calibre. I do not think an Su-25 did it however. Something else may have been at the scene.

[Neoconstantius]

Extremely unlikely.

This is only interesting because Ukraine had previously denied it had any military aircraft in the air at the time of the crash.

So you are saying that they are lying about it?

If the US has confirmed it, somebody's lying.